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Hyperdimension Neptunia Revisions Part 2 - Abilities, Tier Adjustments and Misc.

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Oh, and in just case you're all wondering what the profiles will be looking like after these changes (except for 1-C since we knew it would be highly debatable), please visit this sandbox.

thetechmaster36 said:
Blame Kaio and Alex, they got lazy after Genki dipped
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You've done a really good job helping us out so far, don't ruin the moment
WDgcMsU.png
 
I think that's fine, neutral more to disagree(tier 1)FRA. Tbh I'm sure one day they will be in tier 1B because the name of the game is hyperdimension (lmao)
 
Able to avoid the lightning produced by the storm in Dark Green's "2nd Heaven: Disastrous Lightning" attack and can keep up with opponents of similar speed
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Your reason for the MHS+ is wrong as you know nothing about them avoiding or not, and them not wanting to get hit by Dark green attack is a wacky reason, Dark green may have as well missed,
So the speed rating is still a no from me
 
Pain_to12 said:
and them not wanting to get hit by Dark green attack is a wacky reason, Dark green may have as well missed
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I apologize if this seems aggressive, but. . .

The chances of that happening is so unbelievably low. The attack is an area-of-effect attack that covers the entirety of the battlefield that you are given in-game, and lightning strikes numerous times (sometimes off-camera for only a few frames before coming into frame and disappearing) at these floating islands. Not to mention, there's sixteen cast members inside the Sharing Field at once; how are you gonna sit there and tell me that not one, not one of these characters had the possibility of being hit by the lightning?

Besides, what reason do they have to not try and avoid the attacks? We've gone over this already: a majority of the cast (save for the fact that during the canonical Dark Green fight, the CPUs were in their Next Forms) is much weaker than Dark Green, a Complete Dark Green at that. Do you think they're just going to stand there and take the attacks by an entity stronger than them and expect them to be like "oh I'll be fine, this won't hurt that much"?

So again, what you are implying (keyword: implying) in your own words is that the characters have much higher durability than previous events depict them to have, and they just stood there and tanked the lightning instead of dodging it.

Again, apologies if I came off as aggressive, I sometimes use rhetorical questions in my reasoning
 
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Sorry. I just saw that techmaster is already here.
 
Anyway, has everything except tier 1 been accepted here so far then?
 
Yeah Tier 1 has been largely rejected, and Pain_to12 is the only person who has an issue with the speed, but other than that, everything has been accepted. Some extra staff input would be recommended, though, since this is a pretty beefy CRT.
 
Antvasima said:
What do you think about this?
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  • MHS+ Speed: Nothing shown in the video supports it being cloud to ground lightning and more importantly trying to use RPG mechanics to scale people to electric attacks should really never be used.
  • Low 2-C: I don't like justifications being sustaining realms honestly, but like it was mentioned in the OP it does meet our criteria. The justification between CPU and shared energy should be expanded upon in their AP justifications though.
  • 1-C: The Dimensional coordinates would need more to them in my view. Not much mind you, but a more to directly show its just not random anime numbers. I would be fine with a possibly rating though.
  • Power and Abilities: Mind Resistance wouldn't be a thing. It would fall under Acasual
  • Scaling Chain: Due to how anime it is a blog will need to be made. That's not at all being accepted without it. I don't want another Naruto situation where it takes 8 years to find a profile's calced justification at times.
Anyways that's most of what I noticed. Anything else I either didn't notice or I don't find to have an issue with.
 
Thank you for the evaluations. They seem to make sense to me.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
MHS+ Speed: Nothing shown in the video supports it being cloud to ground lightning and more importantly trying to use RPG mechanics to scale people to electric attacks should really never be used.
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We never assuredly said that it was cloud-to-ground lightning. This was said in the OP:
KaiokenBlueGT said:
Another thing to note is that it can be considered cloud-to-ground lightning based on the animation, although, the lack of clouds in sight makes this a tad iffy.
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Also, we aren't using RPG mechanics. We're taking what we see in the animation of the attack and extrapolating it with the story of the game. A lot of what we already think is stated above.
Qawsedf234 said:
Power and Abilities: Mind Resistance wouldn't be a thing. It would fall under Acasual
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Mind Resistance was supposed to be changed to Memory Resistance, but idk if that makes a difference
Qawsedf234 said:
Scaling Chain: Due to how anime it is a blog will need to be made. That's not at all being accepted without it. I don't want another Naruto situation where it takes 8 years to find a profile's calced justification at times.
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What does "Due to how anime it is" even mean? The justifications are right in plain sight, as the cutscenes and statements make it quite clear who is stronger than who. Examples were already provided in the OP.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
  • The justification between CPU and shared energy should be expanded upon in their AP justifications though.
  • 1-C: The Dimensional coordinates would need more to them in my view. Not much mind you, but a more to directly show its just not random anime numbers.
Click to expand...
These are fair enough to say, but the thing that's irking me here is that there's no justification coming from your requests.

Why should the justification between CPUs and Share Energy be expanded upon? Why are the coordinates still "random anime numbers" even after an entire section in the OP that's dedicated solely for that? Is it because it's insufficient reasoning, or do you simply not agree with it? Why?

I'm not against these points btw, and I'm willing to enact changes if necessary - but I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint better first.
 
thetechmaster36 said:
We never assuredly said that it was cloud-to-ground lightning
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Cloud to ground lightning is what gets the speed rating. Your proposal is that enough fits in with the ability for it to be considered an equalivent to it and therefore justify a MHS+ speeds rating.

So me saying it doesn't fit the criteria for cloud to ground lightning has nothing to do with it not coming from a cloud.

thetechmaster36 said:
animation of the attack and extrapolating it with the story of the game. A lot of what we already think is stated above
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I only read the OP, for the point about it being their character designs I don't agree with that. Them being particularly durable or having elemental resistance to electricity could justify them not being harmed, or just the VN artstyle not reflecting correct amounts of damage in this instance.

thetechmaster36 said:
Mind Resistance was supposed to be changed to Memory Resistance, but idk if that makes a difference
Click to expand...
It would still fall under acasual

thetechmaster36 said:
What does "Due to how anime it is" even mean?
Click to expand...
The amount of scaling involved can fit the table of contents for most textbooks.

A blog detailing where people are place needs to be made, as once you breach more than three layers of upscaling it becomes enormously difficult for someone not familiar with the series to understand it.

thetechmaster36 said:
The justifications are right in plain sight, as the cutscenes and statements make it quite clear who is stronger than who.
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem with it. I'm asking for a blog to be made or an explanation tab to be added in the vein of Dragon Ball's speed scaling or One Piece's AP scaling.

KaiokenBlueGT said:
Why should the justification between CPUs and Share Energy be expanded upon?
Click to expand...
Because the AP will look weird otherwise. Writing "(Shared energy sustains realm and CPU can use shared energy for attacks)" isn't that much work and explains the why the feat isn't just environmental destruction or a equivalent.

KaiokenBlueGT said:
Why are the coordinates still "random anime numbers" even after an entire section in the OP that's dedicated solely for that?
Click to expand...
Because its nine numbers about an extra dimensional space. It could be referencing something else, which is why I think it should be included but it's not enough for a solo rating in my view.

It's also why I said any amount of clarification on it would make it clear cut. As it would be a solid higher dimensional rating due to it using a clear cut geometric dimensional tiering.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Them being particularly durable or having elemental resistance to electricity could justify them not being harmed, or just the VN artstyle not reflecting correct amounts of damage in this instance.
Click to expand...
Except that high durability can't be the case because the entity they were fighting is much more powerful than each individual cast member as per the logistics of the story. Resistance or not, they'd still be trying to avoid taking damage where necessary; resistance ≠ total ineffectiveness after all.
The VN-esque presentation is pretty irrelevant when there have been previous showings of the characters expressing some form of post-battle exhaustion prior to this fight.
Qawsedf234 said:
It would still fall under acasual
Click to expand...
Fair enough
Qawsedf234 said:
A blog detailing where people are place needs to be made,
Click to expand...
I suppose so? It's not a particularly complex series but I guess a blog wouldn't hurt.
 
thetechmaster36 said:
Resistance or not, they'd still be trying to avoid taking damage where necessary; resistance ≠ total ineffectiveness after all.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it's equally likely that:
  • The attack isn't MHS+
  • They got hit hit it and didn't suffer major damage
  • She whiffed
Just immediately to MHS+ without anything just doesn't have the proper supporting evidence.

thetechmaster36 said:
It's not a particularly complex series but I guess a blog wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...
Having a explanation blog is never a bad thing.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The attack isn't MHS+
Click to expand...
You'd have to disprove that when we've already given everything we can in support of it.
Qawsedf234 said:
They got hit hit it and didn't suffer major damage
Click to expand...
Extremely unlikely from an entity much stronger than each character individually (excluding the Next Form CPUs) unless you want to argue why they would have that level of durability.
Qawsedf234 said:
She whiffed
Click to expand...
thetechmaster36 said:
The chances of that happening is so unbelievably low. The attack is an area-of-effect attack that covers the entirety of the battlefield that you are given in-game, and lightning strikes numerous times (sometimes off-camera for only a few frames before coming into frame and disappearing) at these floating islands. Not to mention, there's sixteen cast members inside the Sharing Field at once; how are you gonna sit there and tell me that not one, not one of these characters had the possibility of being hit by the lightning?
Click to expand...
Refer to this.
 
thetechmaster36 said:
You'd have to disprove that when we've already given everything we can in support of it.
Click to expand...
I mean, you have to prove the point,I don't need to disprove it. I'm just not in the view that it qualifies for lightning rather thwn just electricity.

If other mods feel like it counts its whatever, but I'm not for it.
 
I already said up above nothing suggest they dodged the said lightning if it is MHS also “the person they are fighting is much more stronger, so they wouldn’t want to get hit” is a very very wanly reason
 
Bit busy, so I won't go over everything given Qawsed seems to have it handled, but I will pop in and say, aye, I don't think that remotely qualifies for MHS+ by our standards. MHS+ requires cloud-to-ground lightning. Electricity in general can go as low as Subsonic by our standards.
 
Don't have time to respond atm, but I'll use what I've got to make a quick updated tally showing what we've got now:

(Updated) Voting Tally
Moderator/Admin votes are displayed in bold text, even for retired members.

MHS+ Speed Upgrade
Agree: 9 (Edwardtruong2006, KingTempest, Xmark12, Smashtwig, Thetechmaster36, HyperNepsy, AlexSoloVaAlFuturo, Shmooply, Kuro4416)
Neutral: 3 (Veloxt1r0kore, Planck69, Vietthai96)
Disagree: 4 (Pain_to12, Qawsedf234, Mr._Bambu, Schnee_One)

1-C Upgrade
Agree: 0
Neutral: 9 (Veloxt1r0kore, KingTempest(?), Thetechmaster36, HyperNepsy, Planck69 [1], AlexSoloVaAlFuturo, Vietthai96, Qawsedf234 [1], Kuro4416 [2])
Disagree: 6 (Edwardtruong2006, Xmark12, Smashtwig, Shmooply, Schnee_One, Kuro4416 [2])
[1] - Thinks a "possibly" rating could work, but not a full-on upgrade.
[2] - Is neutral, but is leaning towards disagree.

Ability Additions + Removals
Agree: 13 (Planck69, Xmark12, Smashtwig, Thetechmaster36, HyperNepsy, AlexSoloVaAlFuturo, Veloxt1r0kore, Edwardtruong2006, KingTempest, Shmooply, Schnee_One, Qawsedf234, Kuro4416)
Neutral: 1 (Vietthai96)
Disagree: 0

Additional Tier 2 Justifications + New BoS Tier
Agree: 12 (Xmark12, KingTempest, Thetechmaster36, HyperNepsy, AlexSoloVaAlFuturo, Edwardtruong2006, Planck69, Smashtwig, Shmooply, Schnee_One, Qawsedf234, Kuro4416)
Neutral: 1 (Vietthai96)
Disagree: 0

Like before, if I made a mistake, misinterpreted, or didn't count your vote, please let me know.
 
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Well, it seems like the last two suggestion areas can be applied now, whereas the first two require further discussion, then.
 
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