Huge Pokemon CRT 2

[SamanPatou]

I guess that if they just want to test your spirit and your bond with the pokemon and stuff like that it's reasonable to think they hold back, since in all occasions they needed to face a third enemy.
Anyway, it's true that in some games they are just angry, like Groudon and Kyogre.

I just noticed that this is about the anime.
I always thought that it was filled with outliers just to use the legendaries in some way, and they are considered not too much different from the rest of the other Pokemon in terms of strength, even though it greatly depends on the episode and the movie, just like we see multiple versions of Pokemon that should be unique.

 

[Armorchompy]

I guess that if they just want to test your spirit and your bond with the pokemon and stuff like that it's reasonable to think they hold back, since in all occasions they needed to face a third enemy.

That's a reasonable explaination, but it's not the only one- reading it as them just wanting to see if you're good enough for them and fighting you with all their might is just as reasonable if not more.

I just noticed that this is about the anime.
I always thought that it was filled with outliers just to use the legendaries in some way, and they are considered not too much different from the rest of the other Pokemon in terms of strength, even though it greatly depends on the episode and the movie, just like we see multiple versions of Pokemon that should be unique.

But like, that's a lot of "outliers".

 

[SamanPatou]

Exactly because they are so many I'm more prone to think that the legendaries are weaker than their games counterparts, instead of thinking that any random Pokemon is country to multi continent to universe level.
And it's also arbitrary, since there are multiple versions of Pokemon that should be unique in the games (Regis, Darkrai...), and their strength generally varies in the movies, where they are depicted as stronger, while in the episodes are either more rare or slightly stronger than normal Pokemon.

 

[Armorchompy]

Exactly because they are so many I'm more prone to think that the legendaries are weaker than their games counterparts, instead of thinking that any random Pokemon is country to multi continent to universe level.
And it's also arbitrary, since there are multiple versions of Pokemon that should be unique in the games (Regis, Darkrai...), and their strength generally varies in the movies, where they are depicted as stronger, while in the episodes are either more rare or slightly stronger than normal Pokemon.

I'm sure we could find plenty of examples of non-legendary Trainer Pokèmon fighting legends in any form of Pokèmon media, even those we get the feats from.

 

[00potato]

I mean in most main games, you eventually fight legendaries. I think it happens in the anime a lot as well.

Also when you say “there are a lot of outliers.” You kinda forget what outlier means. If there are a large amount of them, then it’s consistent enough. It kinda feels like we are trying to make this fit our pre-set scale rather then scaling from all the feats.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Whelp now that I've had enough time to (fully) digest this CRT I've got a few constructive criticisms that I would like to share that in hindsight would've made this CRT go far more smoothly:

1st) When deciding to post a CRT that would affect such a big and popular verse like Pokémon you should've consulted the supporters of that verse first moreover have them give feedback on the quality of the CRT (e.g it's size, it's links, its purpose, etc) before posting it officially.

2nd) All Gen 8 legendaries/mysticals (sans the new regi's and galarian birds) aren't getting profiles/keys until we get actual (on-screen) useable feats for them in either the anime or manga, since the games only gave a debatable low 6-B feat and vague statements that might be tier 7, 6 or possibly far higher (which for mascot legendaries and mons that are comparable to them isn't enough to build scaling upon) essentially there isn't enough feats/lore without using big assumptions (which is head-canon territory), Tl;dr adding powers/abilities to mons who aren't getting profiles anytime soon is a mute point.

3rd)

Spoiler: Spoilers a "little" trick

When posting such a massive amount of information, it's best to leave each paragraph in a tag like this example your reading to make your CRT look more clean (plus be less of a headache to read for others and make the CRT proceed more efficiently).

4th) All things considered this wasn't the best time or place to post such a massive CRT; we've already got multiple Pokémon CRTs going on, as already mentioned the TM/tutor move discussion is an entirely different subject (spawned yet another CRT), the obvious time of year, etc. Personally you should've waited a bit before posting.

5th) Like Samam already the pointed out you've missed represented certain powers/abilities as well as left a few out (but I'll get onto that stuff in future replies).

I hope you take my advice on board for future CRTs, I'm not trying to put you down or anything but this CRT could've been presented substantially better (as well as at a more convenient time).

 

[GyroNutz]

Disagree on the "TM/Tutor move unlock". The only proof you've shown supporting this is one or two instances where a wild Pokemon is actually seen using moves outside of its egg and regular learnsets, the rest are from trained Pokemon. For instances where a wild Pokemon has shown a move it otherwise wouldn't learn naturally, that can simply be added to its regular movepool. Even then, no further context has been shown in the instances stated in the OP.

 

[Half_Shiny]

For instances where a wild Pokemon has shown a move it otherwise wouldn't learn naturally, that can simply be added to its regular movepool. Even then, no further context has been shown in the instances stated in the OP.

The problem is it just so many pokemon are learning these TMs without the disk on there own it seems to be a pattern.
There are currently three plus examples of wild pokemon performing TM only moves at the time without any training.

• Group of wild Shuckle knew toxic without it being in the learn set
• Emolga knew hidden power without it being part of the main learn set
• Ash’s Lavitar learned hidden power without it being part of the main learn set
• Wild Togepi knew attract without it being part of the main learn set. The same togepi knew substitute which is also not in the level up learn set

With Emolga just being caught and Lavitar just knowing it in the egg. And the the mom it came from just knew hyper beam. And if the father knew hidden power it would be another case of pokemon learning TMs.
Then there are trained pokemon as well who just straight up learn the move no TM required.

• Cacnea learns Drain Punch which was a ™ in Gen 4 which was the only way it could be learned
• Arbok knew Toxic despite not being in the learn set
• Pikachu learned Electroweb without it being part of the main learn set
• Ash's Phanpy learned hidden power without it being part of the main learn set

There are even more examples I had missed in the original OP for this to just be completely random moves.

• Amoungus learned hidden power
• Group of Wild Psyduck learned hidden power
• Wild Regigigas knew hidden power
• Wild Ducklets knew Scald
• Wild Loatads knew scald
• Scraggy learning focus blast on the spot

"Simisage was about to finish the match with Giga Impact when Scraggy formed a Focus Blast between his hands, learning a new move, and used it to shield himself from Simisage's attack."

I likely have missed many more but there just seems to be to many situations not go against TM requirement at some point. It just seems like pokemon have the potential to learn TMs with the disk helping.

 

[Ionliosite]

Not gonna touch the TMs part since I'm honestly interested on it, but I agree with almost everything else. Only parts I don't agree on is scaling Ash's Pokémon legendaries and the Unown key since those are very iffy, with the former being because scaling regular mons to legendaries is basically always a no.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Ash's profile has been outdated for a few years now, so I'm especially interested in having it be finally given the recognition it deserves.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Ash's profile has been outdated for a few years now, so I'm especially interested in having it be finally given the recognition it deserves.

Right?

 

[Half_Shiny]

so we all in agreement about the non TM related stuff?
Other than unown and some of ash.

 

[GyroNutz]

I'd like context for the TM move stuff.

Anyway agree with all the stuff above it except the Unown stuff which I'm unsure of.

Ash being Low 6-B is iffy to me. Like Ion said there's a lot of issues with scaling regular (albeit trained) Pokemon to the top dogs of the verse. I'm also willing to bet the number of antifeats outnumbers the feats listed by a wide margin. Everything besides the rating looks fine.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The vast majority of Ash's "antifeats" come from either casual scenarios or PIS. The Doctor from Doctor Who is a similar scenario but he's still a Supergenius.

 

[Half_Shiny]

I'd like context for the TM move stuff.

Anyway agree with all the stuff above it except the Unown stuff which I'm unsure of.

what context could I provide to try to help? Like what exactly are you looking for?

yeah fair enough but I still would like to discuss unown if you are ok with it.

 

[Armorchompy]

Even when you put away feats, Ash has partecipated in national tournaments almost ten times in a few years and has gotten in the top ten of almost every single one of them, eventually winning. Besides, one time he lost to a dude with a Darkrai and a Latios, can't blame him for that one

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Tbf, Tobias came out of absolutely ******* nowhere and was the most unfair opponent Ash could've gotten.

 

[Armorchompy]

Tbf, Tobias came out of absolutely ******* nowhere and was the most unfair opponent Ash could've gotten.

Exactly my point. Ash performs really well consistently, and when he loses it's sometimes because of complete bullshit.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Even then he still managed to take out said Darkrai and Latios even though he lost.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Even then he still managed to take out said Darkrai and Latios even though he lost.

Still less BS than Ash losing to Cameron in the Unova league moreover Ash didn't even get to fight Vergil (I think that's his name?) the team Eevee trainer and the eventual champion.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Ash should have taken Cameron to pound town like the Hulk in Infinity War. There is no reason why he should have beaten Ash.

At least all the bad stuff happens in one gen...

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Speaking of, it might be a good idea to make more profiles for anime-only trainers.

 

[Half_Shiny]

so what else needs to be done so this gets approved?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I think enough people have approved.

 

[ElixirBlue]

It's been months and everyone seems good with the CRT. I see no reason not to apply the changes.

 

[Garchomp777]

Why isn't this added yet