Pokemon intelligence and stamina CRT/Discussion

[GyroNutz]

Link to the blog?

 

[Sniper670]

Again, non-sequtir. An omnipresent is everywhere, it doesn't follow that they perceive everything from that. And even then that argument only applies to characters that are omnipresent through space AND time, not one or the other.

Odio. Omnipresent through space and time throughout his entire multiverse, but doesn't have nigh-omniscience.

Dialga and Palkia created the multiverse. It's illogical to think they don't know what's going on within it

Dialga creates time, the timelines and everything he maintains it, it's all him, he's time itself. He exists accross time, so he knows exactly what's going on, since he's essentially the concept of time.

So explain to me why he wouldn't know whats going on within the multiverse. Same as Palkia.

 

[Arceus0x]

Pokemon upgrade templates

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[GyroNutz]

None of that means nigh-omniscience...

 

[Sniper670]

None of that means nigh-omniscience...

So what makes someone nigh-omniscience.... You're implying Dialga in his true form is clueless about the multiverse of which he's the concept of time that runs accross it

 

[Sniper670]

Pokemon upgrade templates

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Looks fine. Got no problem with this

 

[Imaginym]

I assume we don't grant LS to other Pokemon for surviving the Class M or such Telekinetic Attacks of Pokemon with those ratings?

 

[Arceus0x]

I assume we don't grant LS to other Pokemon for surviving the Class M or such Telekinetic Attacks of Pokemon with those ratings?

Psychics scale from restricting class Ms which was accepted in the other thread. The ones who don't scale to anyone are the class Gs since we've seen no one in the same ballpark or capable or resisting Class G.

 

[GyroNutz]

So what makes someone nigh-omniscience.... You're implying Dialga in his true form is clueless about the multiverse of which he's the concept of time that runs accross it

I didn't say clueless, but being the concept of time doesn't mean you know everything about it. Time has no real link to intelligence or knowledge. To get nigh-omniscience, you'd need explicit proof of knowing all things but with some limitations.

 

[GyroNutz]

Pokemon upgrade templates

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City level+ starts at 53.15 megatons, and didn't we decide that Charmander's Drifloon calc was ok to use? That was Low 7-B iirc. Other than that it'd be more efficient to lump the other recent CRTs as well (e.g. size manip for all Pokemon).

 

[Arceus0x]

City level+ starts at 53.15 megatons, and didn't we decide that Charmander's Drifloon calc was ok to use? That was Low 7-B iirc. Other than that it'd be more efficient to lump the other recent CRTs as well (e.g. size manip for all Pokemon).

I'll remove 7-B+

 

[Thelastmlg]

Again, non-sequtir. An omnipresent is everywhere, it doesn't follow that they perceive everything from that. And even then that argument only applies to characters that are omnipresent through space AND time, not one or the other.

Odio. Omnipresent through space and time throughout his entire multiverse, but doesn't have nigh-omniscience.

Palkia and Dialga are the space/time that make up the main Pokemon multiverse, why would they not be omnipresent there? I don't get this argument nor what you're actually arguing for tbh.

You literally can't be omnipresent if you aren't perceiving everything as well, it is completely illogical, unless your mind/vision is in one place at a time, palkia and dialga are both their concepts, their breath and heartbeats are connected to it, it is their entire existence

No, it works for both, someone spatially omnipresent would see everything that exists all the time, someone temporally omnipresent would see everything that was, is or will be wherever they are.

Considering there is a "true odin" there, sounds it like it should have, and if that's how the site treats it, i'm against it as a whole then.

I said they are not omnipresent outside the multiverse, which is where their dimensions are, and arceus dimensions, where the waves came from, is above them and surpasses spacetime

 

[GyroNutz]

You literally can't be omnipresent if you aren't perceiving everything as well, it is completely illogical, unless your mind/vision is in one place at a time, palkia and dialga are both their concepts, their breath and heartbeats are connected to it, it is their entire existence

How is that illogical exactly? What you are isn't what you perceive. Being at every point in time doesn't result in knowing, interpreting and understanding every event that has ever occured. You're not adding anything to your argument and are just doubling down on your belief that this is illogical when it's not. A living universe doesn't know everything that happens in the universe, a living planet doesn't know... you get the idea hopefully. Hence the library analogy.

No, it works for both, someone spatially omnipresent would see everything that exists all the time, someone temporally omnipresent would see everything that was, is or will be wherever they are.

It doesn't work for either without further context, but to humour this logic, consider a being that is temporally omnipresent. They can only be located in one position in space, let's say in a certain house. If they could perceive every event in time, then they will know everything that happens where that house is located - how it's built, who moved in there, if it was destroyed, etc. But they wouldn't know anything about the houses in the next town over.

Considering there is a "true odin" there, sounds it like it should have, and if that's how the site treats it, i'm against it as a whole then.

Not odin, Odio. And I assure you that this isn't the only verse to treat omnipresence as separate from omniscience (which it should be).

I said they are not omnipresent outside the multiverse, which is where their dimensions are, and arceus dimensions, where the waves came from, is above them and surpasses spacetime

But it affected the multiverse which they're a part of, so they should have known about it. I'm not saying they should have known it was Arceus, I'm saying that they should have known it wasn't the other respective legendary. Plus if you watch the movie (Rise of Darkrai), then you'd see that they clearly aren't treated as nigh-omniscient. The profile's rating is wank.

 

[Sniper670]

But it affected the multiverse which they're a part of, so they should have known about it. I'm not saying they should have known it was Arceus, I'm saying that they should have known it wasn't the other respective legendary. Plus if you watch the movie (Rise of Darkrai), then you'd see that they clearly aren't treated as nigh-omniscient. The profile's rating is wank.

Y'know, the number of times the CT have been trapped by the red chain makes me a bit sus about they being omniscient or omnipresent.
Dialga gets caught over and over again when he could supposedly see through all time

 

[Arceus0x]

If you're obese and take up half the room you ain't gonna be able to count every singe bread crumb in your fat rolls. Same happens here

 

[Sniper670]

If you're obese and take up half the room you ain't gonna be able to count every singe bread crumb in your fat rolls. Same happens here

Sorry about that. I did a quick search on his profile.

Nigh omniscience and Omnipresence is reserved for its abstract self.

 

[Thelastmlg]

How is that illogical exactly? What you are isn't what you perceive. Being at every point in time doesn't result in knowing, interpreting and understanding every event that has ever occured. You're not adding anything to your argument and are just doubling down on your belief that this is illogical when it's not. A living universe doesn't know everything that happens in the universe, a living planet doesn't know... you get the idea hopefully. Hence the library analogy.


It doesn't work for either without further context, but to humour this logic, consider a being that is temporally omnipresent. They can only be located in one position in space, let's say in a certain house. If they could perceive every event in time, then they will know everything that happens where that house is located - how it's built, who moved in there, if it was destroyed, etc. But they wouldn't know anything about the houses in the next town over.


Not odin, Odio. And I assure you that this isn't the only verse to treat omnipresence as separate from omniscience (which it should be).


But it affected the multiverse which they're a part of, so they should have known about it. I'm not saying they should have known it was Arceus, I'm saying that they should have known it wasn't the other respective legendary. Plus if you watch the movie (Rise of Darkrai), then you'd see that they clearly aren't treated as nigh-omniscient. The profile's rating is wank.

You are seriously reading what i said and claiming i'm just going with belief, not adding anything? Hilarious.

A living universe may not be everywhere mentally, yes, as they can have their faces outside, someone who's entire existence is being a omnipresent concept must because they don't have a set shape or biology, they don't have a conventional body, so you can't use those analogies about humanoid, organic beings and try to connect them to concepts, bring me a analogy about a living abstract being.

The difference is that i'm talking about dialga, who is comparable to palkia, has large size type 9 and is omnipresent, he is not just temporally omnipresent like solaris, he is nigh omnipresent because time is everywhere like space.

Show me more than 1 page then, pages aren't perfect by themselves, even by wiki's standard.

I think you are forgetting the fact that their dimensions are outside the multiverse, nothing points out them being omnipresent in the space between their realms, they have no reason to know anything about whatever happens there, they only knew there were shockwaves and their dimensions were collide, they don't know anything about each other's dimensions, only the multiverse.

I didn't, so point out what makes them not seem nigh-omniscient and...

Wait hold on, sorry, i just remembered that part of your premise is objectively wrong because it implies i'm pushing in for nigh omniscience when i literally said that the examples are just bad, not that they should remain with that, simple that it would be support at best with whatever we find

 

[Arceus0x]

How about giving the CT just "Average" or "Above average" since they know loads about the inner machinations of the universe and their element and Giratina being capable of making plans to get out of distortion world

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I was asked to comment here about the intelligence of the CT and my answer from the last time this was brought up is unchanged.

Im against removing nigh omniscience from them under any circumstances. Period. I’m sorry, but I will never agree with abstracts who are omnipresent on a scale across the multiverse governing what they are and are, for some magical reason, not nigh omniscient. And if there are similar characters here who lack that intelligence rating for no actual reason, then it sounds like the actual solution is they need to be granted nigh omniscience as well, unless there’s an actual particular reason they don’t possess it that’s specific to them.

We already know that Dialga and Palkia are able to be immediately aware of events that happen across the multiverse, such as Palkia knowing Dialga was caught in a vortex made by Arceus’s portal and coming to save it, Dialga and Palkia and Giratina coming to fight Arceus when he began rampaging, Dialga knowing what time period the betrayal with Damos and Arceus happened, knowing the instant Ash and the others were done in the past so he could bring them back to the future, etc.

Not to mention the distortion world, which we know is Giratinas true form, literally has countless amounts of bubbles that depict events across the cosmology (which even included showing Dialga and Palkias battle in Alamos Town in the Unowns dimension).

 

[Sniper670]

I'll have to agree with this.

 

[Arceus0x]

besides the fact that this has never really finished, i'd also like to add more.

Nihelego should have above average or average intelligence. It was able to
read mohn's memories, copy lillie's appearance and skills such as playing the piano, it fooled him into believing it was a normal girl and made up a plan to prevent mohn from remembering who he is for many ages

 

[Imaginym]

Is this on hold?

besides the fact that this has never really finished, i'd also like to add more.

Nihelego should have above average or average intelligence. It was able to
read mohn's memories, copy lillie's appearance and skills such as playing the piano, it fooled him into believing it was a normal girl and made up a plan to prevent mohn from remembering who he is for many ages

In what continuity did this happen?

 

[Arceus0x]

Is this on hold?

In what continuity did this happen?

Anime. Doesn't seem that inconsistent