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Huge MCU revision

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> Cap pretty easily outpaced Falcon when jogging so he's deffinitely faster than a normal human.

Hasn't his jogging/sprinting speed be placed in the 26 to 45 MPH range?
 
SuperKamiNappa said:
Side note 3: When did Captain America defeat Spider-Man? That seems inconsistant considering Spider-Man stomped Bucky from what I remember.
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Civil War

And he had a pretty huge advantage in AP, but that's not enough to win
 
Gemmysaur said:
Clocked him in the face with the shield, followed by dropping the airbridge on him.
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Not sure that's enough to scale Cap's phyical strength to Spidey's. Escpecially sense we already have his shield as 8-A (soon to be changed with everyone else who is 8-A), and Spidey easily overpowered Bucky(who is supposed to be Cap's equal).
 
Also Cap beat Spider-Man while holding back according to Iron Man. Meaning Spider-Man is that garbage or Captain America has magic skill power.
 
Spidey's sticky hands and feet aren't so good that he can't be pulled off. Realizing that Cap's outmatched in a tug of war, he instead just spun around and let the force from that pull Spidey off his feet.
 
Cap was not outmatched, they were equal and he let go to do that [1], you could even argue that spider-man had the advantage of position. Regardless, he'd still be nearly comparable in that grapple even if eventually overpowered.

IIRC, tony said cap could have "layed out" Spider-Man, meaning knock out, so it might not just be an argument of skills.
 
I agree that Cap is comparable, if not superior, to Spider-Man.

Blaming everything on skill is a stupid argument. Skill doesn't help you beat someone several tiers higher than you. Skill doesn't help you beat someone thousands of times stronger than you. Skill doesn't help you beat someone who blitzes you.

Iron Man was definitely correct that Cap would have easily defeated Spider-Man. Cap wasn't serious in the Civil War scene, and still defeated Spider-Man. Skill does not answer how he was able to physically grapple with Spider-Man.

The same goes with the Cap vs Iron Man fight. "Iron Man was holding back", "Iron Man did not use blasts", "Bucky distracted Iron Man", "Cap was more skilled", all these are stupid arguments. FRIDAY outright stated Cap can beat Iron Man hand-to-hand, and Cap also tanked blasts from Iron Man. Though unable to damage Iron Man's armour without his shield, he was still able to harm Iron Man. Some say Iron Man's suit was damaged, but it was just a few functions, the suit was fine. Iron Man has more powers and attacks, but when it comes to AP, at least this scene says that Cap is nearly, if not comparable, to Iron Man. Iron Man's blasts are not thousands of times stronger than his armour, nor Cap's "skill" would mean he can fight Iron Man even if he is thousands of times weaker.

In my opinion, the Cap vs Iron Man scene was the best showing of Cap's top strength. He and Bucky just wanted to get away in the beginning, and were holding back, but after Iron Man blasted Bucky's arm and heavily injured him, Cap was furious and started fighting far more seriously. I think Cap was the most berserk in this scene among all of his battles.

Of course, I am not saying that we should upgrade Cap until Avengers 4 comes out. "Patience".
 
To be fair, while Cap can hold his own quite well, and was in fact, overwhelming Iron Man in a fist fight, he did little to no damage with his hands and needed the shield to actually do anything. As was Bucky, who, while he did force Iron Man's hand upward once, and another pointed away from his face, he also did little to no damage except for when it's his metal arm that's being used.
 
I suppose you posted before I edited my post, because I said that Cap was unable to harm Iron Man without his shield.

I cannot and will not deny that. Iron Man's suit's durability is probably too hard for Cap and Bucky to penetrate, but they were holding their own quite well. Cap even went one-on-one with Iron Man when he got really mad, and FRIDAY outright said Iron Man would eventually lose hand-to-hand.

It does not make sense at all for Iron Man to be thousands of times stronger than Cap. I think this is already quite clear in the first Avengers movie - Cap was confident on fighting Iron Man after seeing all the Avengers' powers.
 
SuperKamiNappa said:
Side note: Shouldn't Valkyrie be downgraded now that loki isn't likely 7-A+ anymore?
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Of course, I'll fix that.

Regarding Cap being hurt by "bullets", well in fiction, especially Marvel and DC, bullets are extremely powerful due to their supposed "sharpness" (or maybe writers are stupid). Even Wonder Woman can be harmed by bullets.
 
Him being confident at fighting Iron Man after seeing what he can do doesn't make much sense considering he just saw Iron Man knock Loki down after the latter was throwing Cap around like the world's most annoying ragdoll.

But yeah, best we can do at the moment I think is to put "At most <insert IM rating here>".
 
the mark 46 really deserves a tier 9 rating. consistently being portrayed as weak. being damaged by hawkeye arrow. it's hands getting crushed by bucky. received damages by a simple generic car. cannot even crack the floor with a punch (attempted to cap). failed to leave burn marks in the ceiling. its speed is bad also.

not impressive showing and no 8-a for cap.
 
prime ultron should also not scale to 8-a mark 43 iron man. tony's missile dismantled and defeated him quickly. prime ultron cannot even damage him.
 
Blitzedaken said:
the mark 46 really deserves a tier 9 rating. consistently being portrayed as weak. being damaged by hawkeye arrow. it's hands getting crushed by bucky. received damages by a simple generic car. cannot even crack the floor with a punch (attempted to cap). failed to leave burn marks in the ceiling. its speed is bad also.

not impressive showing and no 8-a for cap.
Click to expand...

To add a reflected repulsor blast knocked out the suit's targeting system in one shot.
 
Blitzedaken said:
the mark 46 really deserves a tier 9 rating. consistently being portrayed as weak. being damaged by hawkeye arrow. it's hands getting crushed by bucky. received damages by a simple generic car. cannot even crack the floor with a punch (attempted to cap). failed to leave burn marks in the ceiling. its speed is bad also.

not impressive showing and no 8-a for cap.
Click to expand...
Hawkeye's arrows are shown to be pretty powerful, the explosive arrows harmed Loki, and normal arrows broke Spider-Man's webbing

It's hands getting crushed by Bucky won't be inconsistent if we scale Bucky to <insert IM rating>.

Scarlet Witch used her telekinesis to drop the car on Iron Man, so the force is far more than the PE of the car itself.

Failing to crack the ground or damaging the ceiling is just PIS, it always happens in fiction.
 
Ignoring Thanos vs Cap, I still think we should give Cap an "at most" rating as Gemmysaur said. Though unable to damage his suit, he was still holding his own very well and overwhelmed Iron Man hand-to-hand. Cap also fought Ultron.

And watching the Iron Man vs Ultron scene I don't think Iron Man is really that stronger than Ultron, only slightly stronger if not the comparable.
 
Did he ever fight Ultron Prime? He fought Vibranium Ultron, which is an outlier if we're scaling him to Iron Man now, although he did mostly use his shield.
 
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