How much of a boost is Goken?

[SemiRaedi]

As the title states, how much of a boost should Goken be around? It just states higher on the profiles so we know it's in the same tier but I'd like to find out a more specific answer like "3x boost" so we know what to do in future matches.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Well, daz bones could stop one of mihawks attacks, when he wasn't using goken but then was cut, and zoro could do the same thing, sooooo country level lmaooo (probably not but much higher than regular attacks, probably can one shot.)

 

[Eminiteable]

There's no stated amp for it like a multiplier nor is there a stated AP rating it possesses as it's relative to the user, It's just a lot higher than Zoro's regular physical attacks. How much higher we can see from his fights:

Daz Bones:

1. None of Zoro's attacks had any effect on Daz Bones' body regardless of how many he used.
2. As soon as he learned Goken he was able to cut through Daz Bones' body and one-shot him with only one sword.

Ohm:

1. Similar to the Daz Bones fight none of Zoro's attacks against his Iron Cloud sword effected it.
2. As soon as he used Goken he cut through the sword and Ohm himself, one-shotting him.

(Mihawk failing to cut through Daz Bones' Iron body at first doesn't mean he possesses 6-B durability as the level of power Mihawk was using in that instance was relative to the person he was attempting to attack which was Luffy; who Daz Bones in this arc is somewhat relative to according to the profiles)

 

[SemiRaedi]

So should we assume that the boost is limited to being able to oneshot people he would struggle with normally?

 

[Eminiteable]

So should we assume that the boost is limited to being able to oneshot people he would struggle with normally?

Amps without multipliers or a set rating are treated weirdly in versus threads, for example in a Vs thread you need to be 7 times stronger to one-shot someone but amps aren't treated as being 7 times higher even if in canon they one-shot someone.

So in the story we can say if Zoro used Goken he most likely should one-shot someone comparable to him, but in a Vs thread it just means the character scales a lot higher than their base rating.

 

[SemiRaedi]

Is there any sort of cap for "alot higher than their base rating"?

 

[Eminiteable]

Is there any sort of cap for "alot higher than their base rating"?

Well if there's a 7 times AP difference between one character and another I don't think a far higher rating etc will change the outcome from being an AP stomp.

 

[CinCameron20]

Amps without multipliers or a set rating are treated weirdly in versus threads, for example in a Vs thread you need to be 7 times stronger to one-shot someone but amps aren't treated as being 7 times higher even if in canon they one-shot someone.

So in the story we can say if Zoro used Goken he most likely should one-shot someone comparable to him, but in a Vs thread it just means the character scales a lot higher than their base rating.

We can't even assume a multiplier in the cases against Daz and Ohm.

Zoro using any form of Buso-Haki would allow him to bypass Daz's DF mechanic of negating slashing and piercing attacks. Zoro basically struck the real body of Daz with a stronger attack. There's nothing to say Daz would be comparable in durability to his bladed body than with his ordinary, human-body.

• Otherwise, if you want to believe Zoro damaged Daz's steel-like body, which is heavily implied anyways, he merely used a sword-technique to slice through steel. We have swordsmen in this verse being able to generate lightning slashes, cut through flame (literally harming it), generating fire from their body, and generating ice from their swords. I would not say Zoro's AP increased here. He just changed his cutting technique to cut through steel. He cut what he desired. He left the leaves unharmed, and bisected a large boulder before cutting down Daz.

Zoro basically "willed" his blade to cut whatever he wanted, lmao. In this case, steel.

In the case of Ohm, Zoro destroyed the Iron Cloud and one-shot Ohm while using his 108-pound cannon, which would obviously be far stronger than his 36-pound cannon anyways. We don't know how durable Ohm himself is, and the ONLY attack Zoro landed on him is what one-shot him.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Would invulnerability be negated could be a possibility but until Zoro uses goken on something like Black Blade which is invulnerable and cuts it then it would be enough

 

[SemiRaedi]

So can we at least come up with a rough estimate for the limit of Goken? Like a rough multiplier or AP limit?

What happens if hypothetically Zoro fights someone who is 99 gigatons? Do we assume Goken can cut them or do we acknowledge some sort of limit to prevent this?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So can we at least come up with a rough estimate for the limit of Goken? Like a rough multiplier or AP limit?

What happens if hypothetically Zoro fights someone who is 99 gigatons? Do we assume Goken can cut them or do we acknowledge some sort of limit to prevent this?

Look the limit is Zoro’s will…

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It has nothing to do with ap… or dura… its about What material or thing he can cut…

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So can we at least come up with a rough estimate for the limit of Goken? Like a rough multiplier or AP limit?

What happens if hypothetically Zoro fights someone who is 99 gigatons? Do we assume Goken can cut them or do we acknowledge some sort of limit to prevent this?

No it's unquantifiable, but if you wanna know how it works in a vs battle, if someone scales to or below zoros value, zoro should one shot with goken, but if they scale higher, then he can't.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

A way to resist goken is by wearing some sort of armor that’s exponentially stronger than steel/Iron… I think… Zoro cuts things with skill alone, literally so it definitely has some sort of dura neg

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

if someone scales to or below zoros value, zoro should one shot with goken, but if they scale higher, then he can't.

What does that mean?

 

[SemiRaedi]

A way to resist goken is by wearing some sort of armor that’s exponentially stronger than steel/Iron… I think… Zoro cuts things with skill alone, literally so it definitely has some sort of dura neg

Island level human >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steel/iron

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Island level human >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steel/iron

Yee but it’s not like that for Goken… leaves <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< stone but zoro can cut the stone but not the leaves. Dura doesn’t matter… the material does.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What does that mean?

If zoro fighting a dude in a vs battle, if zoro scales to x and the opponent scales to <=X then zoro should one shot, if opponent scales >X then zoro cannot.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

With breath of all things all material are alive or has a type of breath and Zoro by analyzing that breath can cut what he wishes to cut by analyzing that breath should definitely be dura neg via information analysis

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If zoro fighting a dude in a vs battle, if zoro scales to x and the opponent scales to <=X then zoro should one shot, if opponent scales >X then zoro cannot.

If you are saying someone dura >> Zoro’s ap and he can’t cut him you are wrong. It literally says it on the profile, Damage Boost (Through Goken he is capable of cutting people and objects he normally couldn't with his regular attacks)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

With breath of all things all material are alive or has a type of breath and Zoro by analyzing that breath can cut what he wishes to cut by analyzing that breath should definitely be dura neg via information analysis

That’s what makes the most sense

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I guess a way to resist it is by using a super complex material that Zoro can’t analyzing or need a lot of time to analyze examples could be Thor’s hammer which is made by a mystical ore Uru

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

If you are saying someone dura >> Zoro’s ap and he can’t cut him you are wrong. It literally says it on the profile, Damage Boost (Through Goken he is capable of cutting people and objects he normally couldn't with his regular attacks)

I didn't say that. I said Zoro wouldn't be able to one shot, not that he just wouldn't be able to cut him outright.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I didn't say that. I said Zoro wouldn't be able to one shot, not that he just wouldn't be able to cut him outright.

But what did Zoro do against daz bones? Who has exponentially higher dura than Zoro’s ap…

material like these would be able to resist Goken

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/the-16-strongest-metals-in-comics/amp/

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

But what did Zoro do against daz bones? Who has exponentially higher dura than Zoro’s ap…

material like these would be able to resist Goken

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/the-16-strongest-metals-in-comics/amp/

I'm talking about a vs battle not an in-verse battle. also a cbr article lol.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This is very good info by someone I found

i think if one has some knowledge about japanese or chinese martial arts, the meaning of 'cutting nothing' will be clearer
the japanese word used in the anime is 'kokyu', it can be translated as 'breath', but in martial arts terms, 'kokyu' is not just the respiratory breath, it specifically refers to the idea that, through breathing, we connect our body and soul with the external environment, in short, 'to breathe in harmony with the world'

to strike things with a blade but not cutting or damaging them is difficult, your blade has to move in harmony with the target so the target remains unharmed
as illustrated by zoro's blade moving in perfect harmony/synchronization with the branch and not a single leaf is damaged

when you can sense the kokyu of everything and manage to not cut your target when striking, you know the perfect timing and spot to strike and can cut anything

it is a major character development point for zoro, who used to believe a great swordsman needs great power and strength, and whose battle method often resorts to brute force
but in this particular episode, he starts to realize real strength does not simply 'physical force'

I'm talking about a vs battle not an in-verse battle.

Yee Zoro has Goken on his profile and literally says that if his normal ap doesn’t work, Goken will. which eminitable added and told you or someone how it works

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This is very good info by someone I found


Yee Zoro has Goken on his profile and literally says that if his normal ap doesn’t work, Goken will. which eminitable added and told you or someone how it works

Yup, it's damage boost, but it won't one shot someone more durable than zoro's AP, it will only deal more damage than normal attacks.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yup, it's damage boost

Makes no sense in it being just a damage boost which is why it’s also information analysis

but it won't one shot someone more durable than zoro's AP,

Then what happend to daz bonez…

it will only deal more damage than normal attacks.

No it doesn’t deal more damage… it cuts things he couldn’t before

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Makes no sense in it being just a damage boost which is why it’s also information analysis

Information analysis is how he uses the damage boost.

Then what happend to daz bonez…

in verse only, I'm talking about vs battles.

No it doesn’t deal more damage… it cuts things he couldn’t before

which is dealing more damage, also you're treading on NLF.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

in verse only, I'm talking about vs battles.

Then why is this on Zoro’s profile?

Damage Boost (Through Goken he is capable of cutting people and objects he normally couldn't with his regular slices, such as Mr. 1's Iron)

which is dealing more damage, also you're treading on NLF.

Tell me how it’s NLF. Because there is a limit which is materials that are to complex for him to figure out how to cut

stop being ignorant and downplaying feats. I don’t like when humans do that. I’ve seen you do it in multiple threads

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Then why is this on Zoro’s profile?


Tell me how it’s NLF. Because there is a limit which is materials that are to complex for him to figure out how to cut

stop being ignorant and downplaying feats. I don’t like when humans do that. I’ve seen you do it in multiple threads

justification obviously. So your telling me that if zoro figures out a material that has 4-C durability, then he can cut it? Clearly not, it's not durabilit negation, it just increases his damage output because he knows exactly where to strike and how. it's limits are opponents far stronger than him that even his strongest attacks can damage.

 

[SemiRaedi]

Alright I've been refraining from saying this in hopes that I don't make an accidental strawman but now that monkey has said that as long as the material isn't too complex for Zoro to analyse he can cut it, it makes me want to ask...

If we made a Zoro Vs DBS Goku thread that's speed equal then would Zoro be able to cut Goku since he basically just has normal flesh? All there would be is a discussion about who is more skilled and then a simple Goken gg if Zoro has the skill advantage via monkey's logic.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Alright I've been refraining from saying this in hopes that I don't make an accidental strawman but now that monkey has said that as long as the material isn't too complex for Zoro to analyse he can cut it, it makes me want to ask...

If we made a Zoro Vs DBS Goku thread that's speed equal then would Zoro be able to cut Goku since he basically just has normal flesh? All there would be is a discussion about who is more skilled and then a simple Goken gg if Zoro has the skill advantage via monkey's logic.

This is why I mentioned the no limits fallacy, if zoro can do that then he should solo the verse kaido and all. If zoro fights DBS Goku, zoro's f***ed.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This is why I mentioned the no limits fallacy, if zoro can do that then he should solo the verse kaido and all. If zoro fights DBS Goku, zoro's f***ed.

Haki resists Goken or I think it’s haki

I mean wouldn’t law be able to one shot goku? Wouldn’t suger one shot goku? Wouldn’t Caesar one shot? Wouldn’t boa one shot… actually she did already…

If we made a Zoro Vs DBS Goku thread that's speed equal then would Zoro be able to cut Goku since he basically just has normal flesh? All there would be is a discussion about who is more skilled and then a simple Goken gg if Zoro has the skill advantage via monkey's logic.

Might not be that simple but yes kinda

 

[Eminiteable]

Haki resists Goken or I think it’s haki

No it doesn't, Kaku just hit the attack with a Rankyaku kick. It doesn't boost Zoro's AP remember or allow him to cut something he never intended to cut.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

No it doesn't, Kaku just hit the attack with a Rankyaku kick.

Then why was he talking about him using tekkai?

It doesn't boost Zoro's AP remember

So why is it damage boost?

or allow him to cut something he never intended to cut.

That’s true… but Zoro was trying to break his tekkai thing with Goken, which he couldn’t… and Zoro’s relied on his ap to win the match instead.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Is Goken haki?
Inept Armament Haki (Via Goken),

 

[Eminiteable]

Then why was he talking about him using tekkai?

Re-read the chapter, Zoro was getting annoyed by Kaku's tekkai blocking his attacks so he planned to cut right through it with Goken, Kaku choose not to allow the attack to hit him by intercepting it with Rankyaku.

So why is it damage boost?

Because it is??? The increased damage is done via the attack actually landing on it's intended taget, it's not an AP boost.

That’s true… but Zoro was trying to break his tekkai thing with Goken, which he couldn’t… and Zoro’s relied on his ap to win the match instead.

He tried, Kaku didn't let him hit him with it.

Is Goken haki?
Inept Armament Haki (Via Goken),

Partly, purely through imbuing their will onto the sword so they can accurately use Goken.

All of this was covered and accepted in this thread.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Because it is??? The increased damage is done via the attack actually landing on it's intended taget, it's not an AP boost.

No where does it imply it’s damage boost… it’s not even close to it… Armament haki is something that’s close to damage boost… (which I have put in my sandbox one piece abilities thread)Goken doesn’t boost how much you can damage… you literally create a weak spot by cutting in perfect accuracy, angle and speed

 

[Eminiteable]

Armament haki is something that’s close to damage boost… (which I have put in my sandbox one piece abilities thread)

No where does it imply it’s damage boost… it’s not even close to it… Goken doesn’t boost how much you can damage… you literally create a weak spot by cutting in perfect accuracy, angle and speed

Starting with that Armament Haki part; you're aware Armament Haki boosts both attack potency and durability right? That disqualifies it from being damage boost entirely.

And what does that do? Makes him deal more damage than he did before as I showed above with my first message on the thread, it's a damage boost not really sure what you could be arguing it is otherwise.