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Horrible Mothers: Lusamine vs Kaguya

That wouldn't work on any Ultra Beast, all who have multiversal portal creation. That's pretty much the plot of S/M...
 
What does lusa do after being thrown kn a pocket reality.

Yes, she can get out, but what does she react/attack with?
 
None of that is on the characters profile or implied in any section of her profile.

As a matter of fact, what can this character do? a quick google search shows nothing combat related while she was merged with the Ultra Beast. What moves can she do? what powers can she use?
 
Assuming she has litirally the same that Nihilego does, I don't see why kaguya can't absorb most projectiles (at the very least partially, which allows her regen to kick in), null with tsb and just atomize.
 
Power Split I doubt helps here (pretty sure lus is stronger, but kaguya bypasses dura regardless).

Same fo guard split.

Tickle can't be used in any realistic manner without getting stabbed and made into ash (and I don't see how lowering someone's power by making them laugh isn't game mechanics).

Can't see why acid isn't countered by tsb and/or just absorbing it.

Constrict consists of strangling someone with tentacles. That's asking to be stabbed by hair, tsb or ashen bone.

Pretty much same as above for pound and headbutt.

Clear smog, too, should be countered by tsb and regen.

See above for psywave

Venoshock really doesn't seem that incredible, should be relatively easy to dodge, tsb, etc.

Toxic spikes are countered by flight.

I highly doubt safeguard helps with ashen bones or tsb.

Should be able to absorb and tsb power gem (getting repetitive, I know).

Stuff kaguya likes to use is either indirect (lava, gravity etc) or dura bypassing, so mirror coat won't help overly much here.

Acid spray, meet tsb.

Venom drench needs the target to be poisoned to work.

Wonder room wouldn't affect kaguya much, and she doesn't do the AP game, so it really doesn't matter for Lusa.

Stealth rock is kinda useless.


Did I miss something? If not, voting kaguya with tsb, ashen bones, acupunture/pressure points and portals for sneak attacks.
 
I'm not familiarized yet with Pokemon or Lusa for that matter to seriously debate this, but didn't she have both Intangibility and Possession/Mind Stuff.

Guzma once tried to directly interact with Nihilego in the Ultra Space and just went straight through the thing while being simultaneously possessed and went sort of total crazy in the process.

Lusa merged with Nihilego should be able to do the same. I don't know a thing about the potency or if Kaguya has resistances to that, though.

So Lusamine wins via not being a crappy out of nowhere villain, thus having >>>> Quality.
 
Also who has the higher AP may be important, since BFR is useless thanks to Lusamine having teleportation of her own and Kaguya lacking safe levels of Regenerationn herself. Since Mid-High is a "possibly", it shouldn't be taken unless shown or directly specified in the op.

I also don't remember Kaguya opening her matches with TSB first thing either (but correct me if I'm wrong here) and Ashen Bones would be countered by Intangibility or in case we assume one Nihilego can make someone phase straight through them but Lusamine can't, I assume she simply would not be dumb enough to just up and stay in the way of the attack when she has a teleportation with reliable range to cover for it.
 
Kaguya scales to 400 ZT. Lusamine scales anywhere between 717 ZT & borderline 5-A. The gap between 50% Zygarde and upwards gets weird...
 
I'm not sure if 717 ZT vs 400 ZT is enough to oneshot but it sure is enough for Kaguya to get punched straight through.

What does she lead with? Dimension/BFR stuff?
 
I'm not saying she reduces Kaguya to dust in one blow. I'm saying it should be enough to pierce through her. Same way the force you need to punch a hole through a wall <<< force you need to apply to reduce it to rubble or dust. A hole just so happens to do the job here.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
I need something that shows Lusamine can actually uses the abilities of Nihilego with perfect precision.
Click to expand...
She merged with it while being connected in Ultra Space.

Unless you suddenly tell me Lusamine can float and teleport around just because. Just watch the sequence against her in Ultra Space.
 
FateAlbane said:
That's like saying I need to apply 5 times the ammount of force recquired to break a wall to break it.
Click to expand...
It's not the same.

Having durability on X level means that you can take attacks on X level, not that you instantly die to anything above.

Can a person twice as strong as you punch a hole straight through your body?
 
@Kaltias That comparison is like saying the gap between Light Speed and 50% lightspeed isn't any different from the gap between going at 10km/h to 20km/h.

The higher the Potency or Speed someone has, the more a gap of almost twice its total will count.
 
I mean, if you are talking about proportions (which are really the only thing that matters), it is exactly the same gap.
 
@Sigurd They literally merged. And I did just say she was shown floating and teleporting around which, you know, humans can't do.

If you're legitimately trying say Lusamine shouldn't be able to do the same things the being merged with her could, she wouldn't even be tier 5 and this match/key of hers wouldn't exist.
 
@Kaltias No, it isn't.

The point is the higher something's maximum is, the more evident a difference of twice that ammount will be.

In fact, if you insist on going IRL route, differences of much less than being twice as strong or fast than someone are already enough for people to get stomped badly at times. And that's talking *human* speeds/attack power.
 
It does nto matter the wiki had something on this where it was decided that 5 times AP was the minimum required.
 
With that being said. I didn't vote for Lusamine or Kaguya, people. I just considered some points in regards to the former's character.

As I said when I entered this thread: "I'm not familiarized yet with Pokemon or Lusa for that matter to seriously debate this (to the end)." I have a lot of things to consider about the verse and the character atm and vs debating is the last on my list lol

I was just checking some things out, questioning one point or another and that's it. As it is, feel free to vote for Kaguya.
 
Also either way ashbones is gg in oneshot regardless of AP difference, if she attempts some weird merging that just puts her in definite oneshot range for Kaguya.
 
90% of my time on the wiki back then was debating *against* Pokemon. I have no reason to debate this for hours on end when Lusa wins via quality either way. ovo
 
Yes but that's not relevant. If you fire a light speed beam at me from 1 m of distance and my speed is 50% SoL, I can move 50 cm to dodge.

If the beam is Mach 2 and i'm Mach 1, it's literally the same.

At the same time, between two humans, one punching with a kiloton of extra force is huge.

Is 1 extra kiloton relevant if both are 6-C?

That's what I mean with "it's about proportions".

And no, IRL a person twice as strong wouldn't punch a hole through you. They would totally be able to beat you to death, that I agree with, but it isn't "blocking means losing an arm" territory or anything
 
@Kaltias I have two options here.

First is a. going in-depth about the gap matter which I, quite honestly, utterly disagree with because physics. Which you'll probably disagree with and present more points. Points I'll disagree as well with rinse and repeating this for hours

Or b. I could simply reply "With a gap like that regardless of interpretation the end result of being utterly overwhelmed if direct combat alone is considered is still the same, and that's generally the idea I wanted to give. So bygones be bygones."

I'll go with B via me not being invested enough to spend 10 hours on this. -q
 
Even if she can punch straight through, which nobody agreed on the discussion we had on one-shots, kaguya can null the attacks or dodge them via dimension teleporting herself out of the way or teleporting the enemy.

If the attack is around 700 to 800 zettatons, she absorbs 400 z out if it at the very least, and regens/tsb negs the rest. If it's aproaching planet level (then go put a possibly planet level+) then she just evades them because she can sense the attacks power.
 
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