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Honkai Cosmology and Scaling Philosophy Rework

GarrixianXD said:
Accept the truth of 1-A Honkai.
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Aeons level, i can see that
But that one is way more harder to pull out as well especially with our current standard and the strictness over tier 1 stuffs

I feel what we need the most is the cosmology blog and that's it, profiles can come later
Especially now we're also going to publish and focusing on HSR
 
GarrixianXD said:
Vote tally:

Agree: Unqver, Emirp sumitpo, Vietthai96, Georredannea15, Phoenks (5; 1 staff agreement)

Neutral: Executor_N0, BestMGQScalerEver, Kisaragi_Megumi (3)

Disagree: GarrixianXD, Paul_Frank, AvengersShows, ShivaShakti, ThanatosX, Marshadow29, Guardian_Doge, KingNanaya, Shiroiyo (9)

From the looks of it, the CRT has been rejected by the majority.
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I'm neutral, but anyway, we need to wait for other staffs and OP to address his point
 
Damn, this thread blew up more than I expected. Where were all these non-staff supporters when discussions were being had, I wonder? Sure is nice to know there are plenty of people to make profiles when all is said and done! I'm sure people who are so eager to make their statements known on a CRT would be just as motivated to actually putting results into the pages.

That aside, having read through the replies, I can see what I missed in my interpretations.

I'll try to sum up my thoughts below:
  • Most of the QS examples seem to originate from Honkai 2nd/GGZ, so I don't think anyone can really blame me for missing those.

  • I disagree with the "blatant 11-D statements" assertion some peeps are trying to discredit the blog with, since without the context of GGZ (which to my knowledge only @Avengershows actually has), the Sea of Quanta being stated to be 11-D doesn't have enough (if any) actual QS feats to support it. The Ryusuke vs Welt fight was iffy due to how Ryusuke didn't actually display any R>F feats besides dura-neg, which in-context was just as easily chalked up to spatial manip. That said, I can see Avenger's point and mostly agree.

  • I agree with Avengershows about @Executor_N0's proposition being a very reasonable and lore-consistent alternative to my own proposal in the blog. The Sea of Quanta having different rules between Bubble Worlds is something that we've been told before but were never really given proper context to understand, so the idea that different Bubble Worlds can have different laws of physics enough to have different types of dimensions and resulting structures also works well with the confirmed cosmology so far.

  • If we were to follow Executor's proposition, that would only apply to the Sea of Quanta and Bubble Worlds. What is the general consensus on my proposal for Leaf Worlds?

  • Regarding the Sea of Quanta's QS via encompassing a 2-A structure, I believe Low 1-C is defined as "able to universally affect, create and/or destroy spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures)". The Sea of Quanta exists between Real Space and Imaginary Space, and it constantly eats at the borders of all worlds, even if Leaf Worlds are ultimately unaffected due to the support of the Tree. As the SoQ is an entity that "universally affects spaces whose size corresponds to one higher level of infinity greater than a Low 2-C structure", then unless I'm misreading, it should qualify. Though, this is a moot point considering the above replies.
Suffice to say, the blog and the CRT's main proposal is mostly rejected from what I can tell. Though I can't say I'm surprised.

Aside from that, I'm still not sure about people's thoughts on the last part regarding maintaining both 6-A and 4-A keys for the verse. I haven't seen any comments about that, so I'm not scrapping it just yet.
 
Solacis said:
Aside from that, I'm still not sure about people's thoughts on the last part regarding maintaining both 6-A and 4-A keys for the verse. I haven't seen any comments about that, so I'm not scrapping it just yet.
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I remember Paul disagree on the tier 6 as well
 
Solacis said:
Aside from that, I'm still not sure about people's thoughts on the last part regarding maintaining both 6-A and 4-A keys for the verse. I haven't seen any comments about that, so I'm not scrapping it just yet.
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So far I agree with what you proposed for those, we've already discussed this in detail on discord and my opinions didn't change
 
Paul_Frank said:
As for the tier 6 stuff, I have to disagree there too really, given the original tier 4 stuff explicitly came from those earlier characters (HoV and HoR having the energy needed to create the solar system, Welt's black hole calc, etc)
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This one, tho more input regarding this will be welcomed, i'm mostly neutral with this one
 
KingNanaya said:
I was asleep bro. Being awake makes me tired.
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I meant more so in general.

The discussion thread's been dead for months, and even though I've left the discord server open up until extremely recently, only a handful of the people on this thread have been part of it. All of these non-staff Honkai supporters showing up out of nowhere, where the hell have most of you been these past few months? I know Velox, Vietthai and Thanatos don't have or don't use discord, so I get it, but the others?

It's a bit of a derail to bring up, but it would've been helpful to have more of you around to actually contribute stuff to the verse.
 
Paul_Frank said:
As for the tier 6 stuff, I have to disagree there too really, given the original tier 4 stuff explicitly came from those earlier characters (HoV and HoR having the energy needed to create the solar system, Welt's black hole calc, etc)
Click to expand...
Welt's black hole calc has been debunked for ages. It was all born from the mistranslated explanations that were rampant in 2nd Eruption. There were no mentions of solar masses or even the Chandrasekhar Limit in the original CN text.

As for the Dudu solar system feat, iirc someone from the Discord server brought up that the actual bubble world in Dudu's VN isn't provably the same size as the real solar system, only that it was roughly at the coordinates within the Sea of Quanta that corresponded to the real solar system in Real Space.
 
Solacis said:
I meant more so in general.

The discussion thread's been dead for months, and even though I've left the discord server open up until extremely recently, only a handful of the people on this thread have been part of it. All of these non-staff Honkai supporters showing up out of nowhere, where the hell have most of you been these past few months? I know Velox, Vietthai and Thanatos don't have or don't use discord, so I get it, but the others?

It's a bit of a derail to bring up, but it would've been helpful to have more of you around to actually contribute stuff to the verse.
Click to expand...
its normal for people to complain about their verse being in a bad state yet never do anything to fix it
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
its normal for people to complain about their verse being in a bad state yet never do anything to fix it
Click to expand...
Fricking tell me about it

In my books, if you don't contribute anything, then you don't count as a supporter, much less get to complain when someone actually does something.

If you can't or don't want to contribute to revisions, then at the very least you can make matches. Yet clearly the only thing these people deem worth their time is whining about nothing happening, then whine even more when something does happen that they don't like.
 
KingNanaya said:
I was just joking around a bit
Click to expand...
That mean you are bad at making a joke
Solacis said:
Fricking tell me about it

In my books, if you don't contribute anything, then you don't count as a supporter, much less get to complain when someone actually does something.

If you can't or don't want to contribute to revisions, then at the very least you can make matches. Yet clearly the only thing these people deem worth their time is whining about nothing happening, then whine even more when something does happen that they don't like.
Click to expand...
Maybe this thread is about downgrading the 11-D which is why they came out from the hideout lel
But i think i also part of the reason why, because i always pushing a revision from a verses i like whenever i can, it just that i'm slacking too much recently and Honkai Series was sidelined until recently where i picked up HSR
 
I have so much stuff in the backlog for the honkaiverse here, I have to make Ana's profile, I have to do Honkai Gakuen 2 basically all by myself, I do translate stuff from Chinese, but I haven't been able to contribute much due to other projects. I mainly still ain't started with Ana's profile because I'd have to replay the Coral Arc which is a pain in the ass for me rn given the other stuff I'm busy with
Solacis said:
In my books, if you don't contribute anything, then you don't count as a supporter, much less get to complain when someone actually does something.
Click to expand...
 
Solacis said:
I know Velox, Vietthai and Thanatos don't have or don't use discord, so I get it, but the others?
Click to expand...
Well, i do use discord in was in the server once, before it got hacked in got kicked out. I took back the account though

But tbh, i too busy with Dragon Ball and almost single-handedly taking care of Azur Lane, and sometime following Nasuverse too so........lol
 
So the extradimension is just a compact string dimension???
If yes then i agree for remove the 11D, because our tiering system is based on size, even qualitative superiority is mean qualitative superior in size
Tier 1: Extradimensional
Characters or objects that can significantly affect spaces of qualitatively greater sizes than ordinary universal models and spaces, usually represented in fiction by higher levels or states of existence (Or "levels of infinity", as referred below) which trivialize everything below them into insignificance, normally by perceiving them as akin to fictional constructs or something infinitesimal.
Click to expand...
 
GarrixianXD said:
Accept the truth of 1-A Honkai.
Click to expand...
I guess you're talking about that tree bullshit. Yes I think it should be 1-A but nobody scales to that tree Lmao.

Although it is doubtful whether it can be 1-A after the new tier 1 standards. It's seems difficult for now.
 
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neutral for now, both side has decent arguments being made.

I will also agree with tier 6/4 scaling
 
Avengershows said:
Can you people read the entire thread instead of just commenting??? Please??? For the love of god???
Click to expand...
Bruh i read what the OP proposed, i not just "commenting"
And i not even stated it string dimension in that, i ask if that is string dimension

And if you can prove it not just string dimension then just send the proof, or quoting what comment that prove that. I'm not will wasting my time for reading the long argument of entire thread
 
GarrixianXD said:
Vote tally:

Agree: Unqver, Emirp sumitpo, Georredannea15, Phoenks (4; 1 staff agreement)

Neutral: Executor_N0, BestMGQScalerEver, Kisaragi_Megumi, Vietthai96 (4)

Disagree: GarrixianXD, Paul_Frank, AvengersShows, ShivaShakti, ThanatosX, Marshadow29, Guardian_Doge, KingNanaya, Shiroiyo (9)

From the looks of it, the CRT has been rejected by the majority.
Click to expand...
It would be nice if this was in the OP.

Looks like it needs more staff members.
 
Solacis said:
I meant more so in general.

The discussion thread's been dead for months, and even though I've left the discord server open up until extremely recently, only a handful of the people on this thread have been part of it. All of these non-staff Honkai supporters showing up out of nowhere, where the hell have most of you been these past few months? I know Velox, Vietthai and Thanatos don't have or don't use discord, so I get it, but the others?

It's a bit of a derail to bring up, but it would've been helpful to have more of you around to actually contribute stuff to the verse.
Click to expand...
I have a lot of verses im familiar with, but only a handful im actually interested in enough to scale actively
 
After reading this whole thread and watching it since the first day, I was just abstaining from voting until I see both sides arguments, I disagree about changing the cosmology, but I fully agrees that the scaling should change, I always always thought that the Low to Top Tiers even downscaling from Herrscher Elysia's 4-A feat being BS anyway due to how the story portrayed that Elysia, Kevin, PE Durandal and End of Game Trio (Chapters 32, 33, 34 and 35) are vastly stronger than majority of the humans and Herrschers of the verse.

But my main doubt and question is about the Lord Ravagers, their scaling and other stuff related to them, since alongside other four characters, HSR Welt could fight and harm Phantylia, who had the powers of both the Destruction and Abundance after she absorbed Ambrosial Arbor and took her attacks, with HSR Welt being implied to be weaker than or at best equal to his heyday during HI3rd, and this could affect pretty much majority of the HI3rd scaling
 
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Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
But my main doubt and question is about the Lord Ravagers, their scaling and other stuff related to them, since alongside other four characters, HSR Welt could fight and harm Phantylia, who had the powers of both the Destruction and Abundance after she absorbed Ambrosial Arbor and took her attacks, with HSR Welt being implied to be weaker than or at best equal to his heyday during HI3rd, and this could affect pretty much majority of the HI3rd scaling
Click to expand...
Welt didn't specify so it might be weaker then his APHO self who should be weaker then post SOQ and maybe even 2nd eruption, so it's highly likely that they would still be tier 4, just 4C and not 4A.

Anyway, Disagree with cosmology change FRA, agree with the scaling.
 
Avengershows said:
I have so much stuff in the backlog for the honkaiverse here, I have to make Ana's profile, I have to do Honkai Gakuen 2 basically all by myself, I do translate stuff from Chinese, but I haven't been able to contribute much due to other projects. I mainly still ain't started with Ana's profile because I'd have to replay the Coral Arc which is a pain in the ass for me rn given the other stuff I'm busy with
Click to expand...
Nah you're cool. Even contributing translations and stuff is great. Being busy is different from not doing anything.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
After reading this whole thread and watching it since the first day, I was just abstaining from voting until I see both sides arguments, I disagree about changing the cosmology, but I fully agrees that the scaling should change, I always always thought that the Low to Top Tiers even downscaling from Herrscher Elysia's 4-A feat being BS anyway due to how the story portrayed that Elysia, Kevin, PE Durandal and End of Game Trio (Chapters 32, 33, 34 and 35) are vastly stronger than majority of the humans and Herrschers of the verse.

But my main doubt and question is about the Lord Ravagers, their scaling and other stuff related to them, since alongside other four characters, HSR Welt could fight and harm Phantylia, who had the powers of both the Destruction and Abundance after she absorbed Ambrosial Arbor and took her attacks, with HSR Welt being implied to be weaker than or at best equal to his heyday during HI3rd, and this could affect pretty much majority of the HI3rd scaling
Click to expand...
Welt's strength in HSR isn't directly compared to any of his previous known peaks. His bio even says that the amount of strength he retains from his heyday is unknown, not strictly "less". At worst he's rusty from being on the bench for too long, as he says in the Luofu.

But even if we assume he's weaker than his peak, we don't even know what his peak is. His peak isn't Second Eruption, because he grew notably stronger on at least two separate occasions since then: his fight with Ryusuke where he came to better understand his powers, and his fight with Kevin, who remarked that he grew significantly stronger since their first encounter. At best we can assume peak Welt is during his second 'fight' with Kevin. Of course, that ignores any strength he could've gained in the time-span between the current Hi3rd story and the start of HSR.

So if we assume Ch.12 Welt is his strongest, then it would be 4-C via upscaling from HSR Welt. But again, that assumes Welt didn't get any stronger than he was in Chapter 12, even in spite of gaining access to the Paths and possibly achieving Metamorphosis, or whatever else Kiana had cooked up when she mastered the Cocoon.

Though if Chapter 12 Welt does end up scaling to 4-C, it's not like anyone else would scale to him anyway. Kevin is already 4-A and he's pretty much the only one who fought "prime" Welt.
 
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