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Homura vs Bolas...... Sigh.
- Thread starter DMUA
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Primaris Brian said:
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╠ÂT╠Âh╠Âa╠Ât╠ ╠Âa╠Âw╠Âk╠Âw╠Âa╠Âr╠Âd╠ ╠Âm╠Âo╠Âm╠Âe╠Ân╠Ât╠ ╠Âw╠Âh╠Âe╠Ân╠ ╠Ây╠Âo╠Âu╠ ╠Âa╠Âr╠Âe╠ ╠Âc╠Âr╠Âa╠Âf╠Ât╠Âi╠Ân╠Âg╠ ╠Âa╠Ân╠ ╠Âa╠Âr╠Âg╠Âu╠Âm╠Âe╠Ân╠Ât╠ ╠Âf╠Âo╠Âr╠ ╠ÂB╠Âo╠Âl╠Âa╠Âs╠ ╠Âa╠Ân╠Âd╠ ╠Âh╠Âa╠Âl╠Âf╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âe╠ ╠Âs╠Ât╠Âo╠Âr╠Ây╠ ╠Âi╠Ân╠ ╠ÂM╠ÂT╠ÂG╠ ╠Âi╠Âs╠ ╠Âo╠Âu╠Ât╠ ╠Âo╠Âf╠ ╠Âp╠Âr╠Âi╠Ân╠Ât╠Â.╠ÂAzathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
╠ÂF╠Âe╠Âe╠Âl╠Âs╠Âb╠Âa╠Âd╠Âm╠Âa╠Ân╠Â
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bump; this is too interesting to let die.
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Sigh.
Homura FRA.
Homura FRA.
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On the subject of mind hax, I guess I might as well point out that even assuming Bolas can't destroy Homura, there's really nothing preventing him from completely destroying her mind and rendering her unable to fight him.
An infinitely weaker version of Bolas (the 4-A one) effortlessly mind-****** Jace twice. For reference, Jace was able to establish a mental link with and survive mental attacks from the essence of a being infinitely beyond both Bolas and Homura.
This is also assuming he doesn't just try sealing Homura in the Mask of Night's Reach, which he did to another Planeswalker of his level back before the Mending, which would render her unable to fight, anyway.
"lol Law Manipulation" won't help very much if Homura is unable to actually use it before she's prevented from properly fighting back. Bolas is arrogant, but he's the furthest thing from stupid.
An infinitely weaker version of Bolas (the 4-A one) effortlessly mind-****** Jace twice. For reference, Jace was able to establish a mental link with and survive mental attacks from the essence of a being infinitely beyond both Bolas and Homura.
This is also assuming he doesn't just try sealing Homura in the Mask of Night's Reach, which he did to another Planeswalker of his level back before the Mending, which would render her unable to fight, anyway.
"lol Law Manipulation" won't help very much if Homura is unable to actually use it before she's prevented from properly fighting back. Bolas is arrogant, but he's the furthest thing from stupid.
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Oi boi, here it comes
I've waited so long Azzy
I've waited so long Azzy
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>Sees the "homura fra" bait worked on Azzy
Oh no Azzy what are you doing?
Oh no Azzy what are you doing?
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SomebodyData said:
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Kaltias said:
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In all seriousness,
And does this High 2-A being have feats of mind maniping other High 2-As?
Couldn't Homura do something similar (Given she should also be comparable to U Madoka's law manip which keeps UKG out)
Law Manip is by thought, so unless the above abilities are passive, they should be able to activate at similar times.
Note how I'm merely neutralizing the arguments without providing supporting info for either side, destroying the previous votes without giving any info that can be used to determine who wins. Ie I'm getting you out of the bait trap Azzy.
And does this High 2-A being have feats of mind maniping other High 2-As?
Couldn't Homura do something similar (Given she should also be comparable to U Madoka's law manip which keeps UKG out)
Law Manip is by thought, so unless the above abilities are passive, they should be able to activate at similar times.
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It's all "I want to do this and so it happens", yes. Bolas' touch makes his mind destruction more potent, but as seen with Jace, it's absolutely far from necessary.
Said High 2-A is vague, but has a few things. The first is mentally altering and mutating an entire world before it was even present. The (likely more impressive one) was that a 2-A being who had dedicated his life to studying these entities still could not fully understand or comprehend them. Along comes Jace, whose mental powers allow him to actually interact with and survive against this being's ineffable mind. This is despite the fact the mere establishment of this link should have completely destroyed him.
In the very next story arc, Bolas casually destroys Jace's mind, only preventing him from complete brain death because Jace planeswalked away. This was done by the heavily weakened form of Bolas without actually touching Jace.
Said High 2-A is vague, but has a few things. The first is mentally altering and mutating an entire world before it was even present. The (likely more impressive one) was that a 2-A being who had dedicated his life to studying these entities still could not fully understand or comprehend them. Along comes Jace, whose mental powers allow him to actually interact with and survive against this being's ineffable mind. This is despite the fact the mere establishment of this link should have completely destroyed him.
In the very next story arc, Bolas casually destroys Jace's mind, only preventing him from complete brain death because Jace planeswalked away. This was done by the heavily weakened form of Bolas without actually touching Jace.
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So they could activate at similar times and Bolas' mind manip can work, assuming his arrogance doesn't make him take his time.
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Considering his arrogance has only ever really delayed him against beings that were actually weaker than and not comparable to himself, I doubt he'd hesitate.
Hell, against Leshrac (a comparable Planeswalker), Bolas even tricked him into thinking he was being arrogant, when in reality he'd taken measures to win the fight before it even began.
Hell, against Leshrac (a comparable Planeswalker), Bolas even tricked him into thinking he was being arrogant, when in reality he'd taken measures to win the fight before it even began.
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So then yes, both can activate their abilities at similar times, in which case, Inconclusive at best.
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Depends. People have had massive debates about what a character will do vs what they ca do.SomebodyData said:
Is Homura as likely to start the match with Law Manipulation against the exact thing she needs to as Bolas is to instantly start off with mind attacks, sealing, or something of the like?
And is Homura's Law Manipulation going to instantly render Bolas completely incapable of doing anything? Because even in a weakened state, he's far from helpless, and was considered to be on the level of Pre-Mending Planeswalkers even before getting his 'walker abilities.
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Does she, though? Because I don't remember Akuma Homura really spamming anything.PaChi2 said:
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Yes, as whenever the passive mind manip doesn't work, she resorts to that.
Bolas doesn't start off with physical or non-hax abilities does he?
It should from what I understand of his profile.
Bolas doesn't start off with physical or non-hax abilities does he?
It should from what I understand of his profile.
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Is she even going to have time, then? Because if she's going to try something that doesn't work before trying Law Manipulation, then she's already wasted too much time.
"Bolas doesn't start off with physical or non-hax abilities does he?"
Against equal opponents? Not since he was first a Planeswalker.
"It should from what I understand of his profile."
Yes but why? Even the hilariously weakened post-Mending Bolas is still fully capable of using his powers, as is Bolas before becoming a Planeswalker. If you want to go even further into the "source" of his Elder Dragon powers beyond that, then you reach this thing.
"Bolas doesn't start off with physical or non-hax abilities does he?"
Against equal opponents? Not since he was first a Planeswalker.
"It should from what I understand of his profile."
Yes but why? Even the hilariously weakened post-Mending Bolas is still fully capable of using his powers, as is Bolas before becoming a Planeswalker. If you want to go even further into the "source" of his Elder Dragon powers beyond that, then you reach this thing.
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Passive Mind Manip. She wouldn't even be trying something before then.
Actually, by equal opponents do you mean Tier wise or similar degree of AP?
The Law Manip isn't just AP based, it is also abilities.
Actually, by equal opponents do you mean Tier wise or similar degree of AP?
The Law Manip isn't just AP based, it is also abilities.
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Seeing if passive mind manipulation works is still an action in itself. You mentioned that she goes for Law Manipulation if that doesn't work. She wouldn't start the battle knowing it wasn't working, would she?
Anyone comparable to a degree which Bolas could deem an actual threat.
Yes, I'm aware. But you're assuming this would null all of Bolas' abilities, and I'm asking what that's based on. Stuff like the sealing isn't even inherent to Bolas himself, but an item.
Anyone comparable to a degree which Bolas could deem an actual threat.
Yes, I'm aware. But you're assuming this would null all of Bolas' abilities, and I'm asking what that's based on. Stuff like the sealing isn't even inherent to Bolas himself, but an item.
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That would imply she wouldn't use Law Manip even with Passive Mind Manip, which she has done.
That's... not very specific? Can he sense her power or magic?
Well thats what happened with Madoka and Sayaka. I'm pretty sure that his resistance would also disappear, so if he were to use an item, the mind manip would work. Now if he were to start with an item, then Law Manip would beat via being thought.
Actually that brings up another issue, will he start with an item based ability or a thought one?
That's... not very specific? Can he sense her power or magic?
Well thats what happened with Madoka and Sayaka. I'm pretty sure that his resistance would also disappear, so if he were to use an item, the mind manip would work. Now if he were to start with an item, then Law Manip would beat via being thought.
Actually that brings up another issue, will he start with an item based ability or a thought one?
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The exact way you phrased it was "whenever the passive mind manip doesn't work, she resorts to that", which is why I was asking.
He seems to just be able to "know". One could argue this being through sensing or just for the sake of writing, though considering it's Bolas, they're probably just banking on "he has some way of knowing".
I don't recall Ultimate Madoka suddenly losing the ability to do anything, though. Just that Homura removed the "normal Madoka" from the Law of Cycles. She didn't suddenly become completely and utterly powerless. I'm also not sure if "Homura uses Law Manipulation, Bolas instantly loses his powers" is even supported by actual events, whereas "Bolas instantly mindscrews opponent" or "Bolas activates the Mask of Night's Reach, opponent is instantly sealed" are both actual things that happened. Where do we have examples of "Homura thinks, other 2-A is now utterly powerless"?
"Actually that brings up another issue, will he start with an item based ability or a thought one?"
Bolas is likely to try multiple things, at once. He doesn't really have a reason to limit himself. If you want to go strictly by what he's done the most, then probably Mind Manipulation, as that's always been a staple of his character.
He seems to just be able to "know". One could argue this being through sensing or just for the sake of writing, though considering it's Bolas, they're probably just banking on "he has some way of knowing".
I don't recall Ultimate Madoka suddenly losing the ability to do anything, though. Just that Homura removed the "normal Madoka" from the Law of Cycles. She didn't suddenly become completely and utterly powerless. I'm also not sure if "Homura uses Law Manipulation, Bolas instantly loses his powers" is even supported by actual events, whereas "Bolas instantly mindscrews opponent" or "Bolas activates the Mask of Night's Reach, opponent is instantly sealed" are both actual things that happened. Where do we have examples of "Homura thinks, other 2-A is now utterly powerless"?
"Actually that brings up another issue, will he start with an item based ability or a thought one?"
Bolas is likely to try multiple things, at once. He doesn't really have a reason to limit himself. If you want to go strictly by what he's done the most, then probably Mind Manipulation, as that's always been a staple of his character.
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Oh I see, I was speaking more on a VSB stance.
I see. "Normal Madoka" is the part that makes the Law of Cycles, Ultimate Madoka. Without her, its a concept that tries reconnecting to Madoka due to it being crystallized. But yeah, "normal Madoka" is in fact completely and utterly powerless. It was actually against Sayaka, the thinking part, utterly powerless. The only other example would be Homura trying to keep the Law of Cycles from connecting.
In that case, wouldn't trying to do multiple things at once < doing one thing in speed be more applicable here?
I see. "Normal Madoka" is the part that makes the Law of Cycles, Ultimate Madoka. Without her, its a concept that tries reconnecting to Madoka due to it being crystallized. But yeah, "normal Madoka" is in fact completely and utterly powerless. It was actually against Sayaka, the thinking part, utterly powerless. The only other example would be Homura trying to keep the Law of Cycles from connecting.
In that case, wouldn't trying to do multiple things at once < doing one thing in speed be more applicable here?
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Ah, I see.
I know. I'm just referring to it as "Ultimate Madoka" for convenience purposes. The idea is that while Homura didn't do something along the lines of negating the Law of Cycles itself, she removed the "Madoka" part from it. While noted to be only a tiny fraction by Homura herself, this is the whole "human Madoka personality" part.
I don't mean Bolas is going to try and think really hard of multiple things at once, or something. I mean he's likely to activate one power and then proceed to use more on top of that.
I know. I'm just referring to it as "Ultimate Madoka" for convenience purposes. The idea is that while Homura didn't do something along the lines of negating the Law of Cycles itself, she removed the "Madoka" part from it. While noted to be only a tiny fraction by Homura herself, this is the whole "human Madoka personality" part.
I don't mean Bolas is going to try and think really hard of multiple things at once, or something. I mean he's likely to activate one power and then proceed to use more on top of that.
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I mean, there is the fact that the Laws of Cycles does get its connection severed every time (But it comes back thanks to be crystallized like I said) it tries, but the fact that it no longer works would be the selling point here. (Homura's Dark Orb is akin to that of a witch, yet the cycle does not affect it)
Oh, I see, my mistake then.
Oh, I see, my mistake then.
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You're just trying to distract him so Homu doesn't get a loss ovo .PaChi2 said:
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