Homura Akemi Vs Madoka Kaname

[Monarch_Laciel]

Is that so?

I must have misunderstood the scene then. I was under the impression Homura derived her power from the piece of Goddess Madoka.

If she doesn't I'll need to think about this a bit more then.

 

[Hit_The_Badass]

not really

They both raging lesbians in love.

So they bang

 

[Akumura]

As much as I would love to agree, please stay on topic or the thread will probably be closed

 

[Kaltias]

I'm quite sure that in character Homura wouldn't kill Madoka. Homura values Madoka much more than herself. However, I think that Homura would win because of her power steal.

 

[Hit_The_Badass]

I'm quite sure that in character Homura wouldn't kill Madoka. Homura values Madoka much more than herself. However, I think that Homura would win because of her power steal.

I wholeheartedly agree with first line. Horuma will let Madoka kill her instead of fighting her.

 

[Kaltias]

Still hope that it would end like this

 

[Nsmch]

I think Homura is one of strongest or maybe even strongest High 2-A, but she still loses to Madoka as she's her only weakness.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Homura is only 2-A, not High 2-A

I agree that Homura still loses though, but it's much closer than I originally believed.

In this battle, rather than saying "homura will let madoka kill her", which kinda goes against the point of the vsbattle, it is more likely that Homura will try to do a Rebellion on Madoka and imprison the sentient human bit (would count as incap). The thing is, in Rebellion Madoka was in no way expecting this and so was caught completely off guard. It's questionable if Homura could pull it off in a face to face batte.

Both have acausality, so time and causality manipulation are noped

Homura is soulless so Madoka's soul manip is noped.

Madoka isn't a physical being, and again is acausal, so Homura's spatial manip won't work

Both have concept manip, so both are capable of taking down the other

Madoka's power granting could possibly be used to gain herself some allies from the new yorkers, but I don't see it being helpful overall.

In a face to face battle, the two almost perfectly counter each other in terms of their power sets, which is why it comes down to personality, and in this fight Homura's personality gets her killed.

If they were both bloodlusted, I'd say inconclusive, as again their power sets perfectly counter each other, and are pretty much equal in power.

 

[Kaltias]

Putting Homura against Madoka in a VS battle in character is like putting Pacifist Frisk in character. It just isn't in character at all.

But I personally think that Homura could drain Madoka of her powers, because she has the speed to keep up, so she doesn't need the surprise attack anymore. So I give it to Homu with high difficulty

 

[Holyhotsauce]

I edited the OP so that Homuras morals are off, this should make it better, Madoka is still In-Character.

 

[Akumura]

Actually, I would like to propose that the scenario be changed. In-character Homura just doesn't work at all and it would become what is essentially a Madoka stomp solely from the unfair scenario and would be, as Kaltias said, "like putting Pacifist Frisk in character.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

thats what i just did....anyway, be free to change your votes.

 

[Kaltias]

I still vote Homura for the reason I gave before

 

[Akumura]

I will switch vote to Homura for the various reasons I gave in previous posts.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'll switch to inconclusive then.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

3-2-3, I Honestly think I counted that wrong, can someone check this?

 

[Kaltias]

I think for now it's just like this:

Homura: 2 (me, Akumura)

Madoka:0

Inconclusive:1 (Monarch)

Rules where changed, so I think previous votes shouldn't be counted unless confirmed

 

[Holyhotsauce]

@Kaltias

Thank you so much, counting votes is a nightmare.

 

[Kaltias]

Bump I guess

 

[Nsmch]

Homura is only 2-A, not High 2-A

With all her haxes combined, she should "super" high 2-A or higher. There are some high 2-A characters who don't even have half of hers.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Homura's hax are not enough close to being enough to High 2-A. For that she would need to be 5-D - literally infinitely stronger

 

[Nsmch]

And Sayaka is an 8-A who was able to resist this memory manipulation for a few minutes, so saying that will be effective on someone of greater power is ridiculous.

Because Sayaka is technically part of 2-A law of cycles and Homura wasn't taking her seriously.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Not taking her seriously sure, but in Homura's new world I don't think Sayaka was still part of the Law of Cycles

 

[Nsmch]

Homura's hax are not enough close to being enough to High 2-A. For that she would need to be 5-D - literally infinitely stronger

And she is exactly 5-D unlike Madoka who is still 4-D and has no affect on time. I might explain later why. This should be fixed in Homura's article.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Homura is not 5-D. If you believe she is, provide proof please

 

[Nsmch]

Homura is not 5-D. If you believe she is, provide proof please

Her pocket dimension that she creates while comforting Sayaka is out of space-time from real world. When it ends, Sayaka moves back in past few minues before she saw Homura.

Next thing is only theory, but her entire new universe might be 5-D(or more) because it doesn't look like she would let Madoka die from old age. They are trapped in her dreamlike limbo universe.

I don't really care, but she should be editted to "atleast high 2-a" and definitely not just 2-a. Difference between her and Madoka is huge (and a lot of other 2-a characters).

 

[SomebodyData]

Thats... not at all a 5-D feat. Also, thats not what happens with Sayaka, because Sayaka lost her connection to the Law of Cycles (especially the part that was Madoka), she lost her ability to remember previous timelines, thus making her like how she was previous to becoming Madoka's "assistant", even if what you said was accurate, its still not a 5-D feat...

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Existing out of normal space-time is not a mark of 5-D and there is still pretty clearly time and space within Homura's new universe anyway. Being unable to die of old-age or trapped in a dreamlike limbo is also not a mark of being 5-D

 

[Nsmch]

Existing out of normal space-time is not a mark of 5-D and there is still pretty clearly time and space within Homura's new universe anyway. Being unable to die of old-age or trapped in a dreamlike limbo is also not a mark of being 5-D

Existing out of normal space-time and ability to move to an any point of time is 5-D.

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually, that's still 4-D...... Immeasurable speed as a matter of fact...

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

^

 

[Nsmch]

Actually, that's still 4-D...... Immeasurable speed as a matter of fact...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-dimensional_space

 

[SomebodyData]

Ok, what am I supposed to see here?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Homura doesn't even exist outside space-time. She can move freely through it, and is potentially omnipresent thoughout it like Madoka is, but she is not 5-D, nor does she moves through 5-D space, nor is the PMMM verse ever established to have more than 5 dimensions.

 

[Nsmch]

Ok, what am I supposed to see here?

explanation what is 4d and 5d spaces

if it's too hard, there is something more simple for you two

https://youtu.be/vNXBEjbgEnQ?t=288

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually, it only explains 5-D spaces, and it says 5D is 3 normal spatial dimensions, the 4th temporal dimension, plus one more. The feat you showed was being outside the 4 formers, so I think maybe you misinterpreted the wiki page?

 

[Nsmch]

Homura doesn't even exist outside space-time. She can move freely through it, and is potentially omnipresent thoughout it like Madoka is, but she is not 5-D, nor does she moves through 5-D space, nor is the PMMM verse ever established to have more than 5 dimensions.

Yes, she does. She was there even in 12th before she got any upgrades. I see you just completely don't understand Rebellion and what was happening there. I don't wanna argue anymore. You need to rewatch everything.

 

[Nsmch]

The feat you showed was being outside the 4 formers.

Being outside and an ability to move herself and other objects back and forward in time to any random points make it 5-D space.

• High Multiverse level+: Characters who are 5-dimensional, and/or can destroy and/or create 5-dimensional space-time constructs of a not insignificant size. Characters who can destroy and/or create an uncountably infinite numbers of universes may potentially also be assigned this tier, as their geometrical 5-D size can be higher than 0.

As she created atleast 5-D universe, she is atleast high 2-A. I'm not even telling that time manipulation was her first ability.

 

[SomebodyData]

Ok

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufpmAQ7rtC8

Nothing in this scene suggests the world exists outside of time and space.

Homura is never stated to be 5-D, nor is she shown or stated to be infinitely more powerful than a 2-A, which are the requirments for a High 2-A rating,

"Being outside and an ability to move herself and other objects back and forward in time to any random points make it 5-D space."

This is not a showing of 5-D space. It is possible to exist "outside time and space" without being 5-D, and moving things backwards and forwards in time (which Devil Homura isn't even shown to do) is just time travel