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Hollow Knight/ The Knight Potential Massive Buff

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So. I was exploring the Lore of Hollow knight hoping to find something... and I found something I think. Those who don't want spoilers, go away now, major stuff coming in.


Ok. So we know for two of the endings. We fight The Radiance. One in the hollow knight fight. And then we can also fight Absolute Radiance who is just stronger Radiance. Now let's discuss some Lore about The Radiance

The Radiance is a creature you only see in the dream realm. Reading into the lore

"The Radiance is a higher being who created the moth tribe and ruled over parts of Hallownest before The Pale King arrived."

Being a higher being is being one of the god like bugs

"Higher beings are god-like creatures in the world of Hallownest that exist above all others"


Ok. So what. Big deal right? Well let's get more into Radiances lore.

"She is described as being a light brighter than Essence, which is the substance that dreams are made of. She seems to hold the most power over the dream realm"


Ok. So holding power over most of the Dream realm. But how big is a Dream realm. Bare minimum we have seen them hold an entire castle shown by the Sawblade palace that everyone loves. here if ya want to see it. As well all the other Dream boss fights which holds those buildings. And we know the Radiance has power of all dreams because of this statement

"Although she is trapped here, she can still affect the dreams of bugs due to the Hollow Knight being impure. This dream is connected to the Dreamer dreams as with each Dreamer killed the sky glows brighter and brighter until the "Sun" or the Radiance appears in the background. A death in this dream is also considered physical."

So that would mean all the power from Bugs dreams. Which would give good power since the Dream realms have shown to hold quite a bit. But then there's this about the Dream realm.

"It contains the eternal dreams and memories of bugs"

Described as eternal. Not only that. This is Per bug. And it includes dead ones too. As dead bugs have dreams both brought up in game lore and in game. And you can enter a few of them. As well. There is as another realm in the form of the Nightmares Realm. One separate from the Dream realm

"This dream is the location where Nightmare King Grimm is fought. It takes place in the Nightmare Realm, separate from the rest of the dream realm."


And The Knight is able to beat Nightmare Grimm and stronger then the Nightmare heart. Which it is said to be the strongest power within the realm and holds it together.

"It is said to be the strongest power within the Nightmare Realm, the one that holds the realm together"

The Nightmare realm being the exact polar opposite to the Dream realm and likely could be scaled on size.

The Knight is fully able to Defeat by end game Radiance, absolute radiance, and Nightmare grim. Who have power over the Dream and nightmare realms which bare minimum have shown to hold palaces, Large buildings, and more. And have also been described to be eternal. As well. Broke the chains that could hold The Hollow knight and radiance keeping them trapped.


I can already hear the ones calling it an outlier. But realistically. Past the feat at The Literal very start of the game. There is like no feats in hollow Knight that could refer to anything as much an outlier. And by end game. The Knight can destroy about any creature in his path no diff. The only ones who really do notable damage at that point is Hollow knight, radiance, absolute radiance, nightmare Grimm, Hollow knight, and possibly Hornet.

And we aren't even done yet. Remember that absolute radiance fights you in a place that literally has realms inside of realms. Filled with several parts of the kingdom, a seemingly unending realm to enter these other ones. Which this or the other radiance ending is the canon one (to my understanding).

Seems like there's a lot here supporting this Potential massive Buff. Breaking the chains that held the Hollow knight and radiance trapped. Beatings radiance and absolute radiance. Beating nightmare Grimm. All who have feats power powers that hold realms together that have been described as eternal. And the radiance able to control all Bugs dreams even where they were from. Which is where The Knight fights them. This buff would go for The Knight, Hollow Knight, The Radiance, and Maybe Hornet.

There also is the fact Seer quotes this in game

"Seer: "A dream is endless, but a Kingdom is not.""

Thus, dreams both being called Eternal and Endless.

As well, The Godseekers are explicitly stated to have created Godhome and noted to have done it via their mask/thoughts

'At some point, they merged within the mind of a single Godseeker. This individual can focus their thoughts into a complex dream world: Godhome. This feat is possible through their mask, which can be passed along other Godseekers.[2] They also built a temporary tuning device in order to find the resonance of other powerful beings in distant lands.'

Now the Radiance should be much stronger then the Godseeker but it is also specifically stated that through 'communion' of the Godseekers the radiance is able to attain it's ultimate form 'Absolute Radiance' and the Knight kills the Absolute Radiance (Combination of the powers of the Godseekers+The Radiance) by unifying and letting the void take over he is able to fully kill the radiance (something he could only do with the help of the shade of Hollow Knight in the normal ending)

My recommendation is a separate key for Start game/End Game/Godsee

Start game is Small building for the Rock calc.

End game is Multiversal via beating The Radiance who has control over all Bugs dreams which are endless and eternal. And there are thousands of bugs. Even dead bugs confirm have dreams.

Godseek is Multiversal via being much stronger than endgame. And also became a giant shadow beast with dimensional crossing.

And Grim should get at least Universal+ due to the fact he is powered by the heart that holds the knightmare realm together. And possibly higher since the nightmare realm is the equivalent of the Dream realm which I discussed above.
 
It might just do to go look for Wokistan, I know he's a fan. Like I said, I haven't played it, so I'm afraid I can't be of much help.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
I'm not sure we should scale Dream World AP to the Real World personally.
That thought did cross my mind. Though the knight had to break the chains that held hollow knight who was under Radiances control at the time.

And end game. The knight breaks free from the Dream realm shown when the character explodes and the darkness comes out of him meaning it broke between dimensions and entered the real world. So end knight is such a level I think
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Give me a quick TL;DR, are you basically asking for a 7-B Knight due to Radiance having control over the dream realm?
Well for

Radiance controlling all dreams

The Knight collapsing a realm

And breaking the chains that held Hollow knight who was controlled and powered by radiance

And another end game. He literally breaks free after destroying the Dream realm and Absolute radiance. And enters the real world.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
Does Dream World have a confirmed size?
They are described as eternal. But that's about all we got other than seeing stuff like palaces exist inside them and the endlessness of the clouds and stuff
 
I'm wondering mostly because Knight's size in pespective to the overall world can cause things like what he views as castles to be a simple hamper to a human.
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
I'm wondering mostly because Knight's size in pespective to the overall world can cause things like what he views as castles to be a simple hamper to a human.
The lore of the game just described them to be eternal. Yea he is small. But can't really be used as a reason to say eternal means something else. They don't use that term to describe anything else. It's not like they are trying to exaggerate it being big. As they clearly use normal words like Kingdom. Palace. Village.

So eternal no matter what size you are is the same. Like infinity.
 
One other big note.

Every Dead bug also has dreams. You can even enter their dreams like with false knight. Which makes it even more impressive
 
Will see about getting to thsu
 
The Pale King was able to seperate the white palace and seal it in the dreams of one of his knights as well. Would love to see a profile for the Pale King/Radiance as well. He was also able to seal the Hollow Knight (albeit not very well)
 
definitely could get a page on them. But would just need this to go through.

One thing to bring up too.

The Knight should get resistance to soul manipulation via not having one
 
He is also resistant to the 'infection' that controls bugs minds right? The infection is noted to cause the following.

  • The loss of their will[10]
  • Fragmenting of their mind[11]
  • Tendencies to attack non-infected bugs[12]
  • Linking up to the hive mind of The Radiance[13]
  • Increase in strength and courage[10]
  • Lack of self-preservation when heavily infected
 
Mind manipulation resistance

Disease manipulation resistance (cause it's a disease)

Stat Amp

Empathy Manipulation resistance (cause their wills)
 
It would have too. He literally broke the chains that held them trapped. Should be stronger than thebone who trapped Radiance in the dream world. Killed the radiance and absolute radiance. And in one ending leaves the dream world in a new form which ripped apart the radiance. And collapsed the literal Knightmare realm which is comparable to the Dream realm. Thousands of bugs, even dead ones, all have dreams even after death.

Which each dream is described to be eternal

As well. This also means he destroyed a literal concept as well. Cause after this realm is destroyed. There can't be any knightmares. Much like had he destroyed the normal Dream realm, bugs could not dream anymore
 
Yea. As in the defeat of Knightmare king Grimm who seemed to be powered by it. It destroyed the realm

As when you damaged Grimm. The heart showed to be effected. And in his defeat. It destroyed everything.

A separate key for his other form would work for that at least. Tho I stand by him getting it in base since he pulls of these feats in base and only ever goes this form to finish the radiance off.

It seems to mean its size. That's why they don't really have an endZ you don't travel them as it's never important to the plot. But we can see as much as literal palaces. Which there are much more to that world. You just can't see it cause. Well it ain't important to the plot at the time so you don't see it.
 
Now that I think about it. The dreams sort of have to be physical because the Pale King was able to take the White Palace out of the real world and seal it inside the dreams of a bug.
 
They do. A death in the dream is also described to be physical. So these dreams do have an effect onto the real world.
 
Although the knight doesn't turn into a shade inside the dreamworld when he dies. Can you show where it was quoted that they are physical?
 
I'll have to find where in the game. "Although she is trapped here, she can still affect the dreams of bugs due to the Hollow Knight being impure. This dream is connected to the Dreamer dreams as with each Dreamer killed the sky glows brighter and brighter until the "Sun" or the Radiance appears in the background. A death in this dream is also considered physical."

Is where I have the quote

As well. He doesn't seem to. But that could say more about him. As well. End game he seems to die. In one of the endings
 
Honestly iffy. It sounds almost equivalent to scaling World of Warcraft to the Emerald Dream or Freddy's AP in the dream world to his real life equivalent. At best it'd scale to "while in the Dream Worlds" or what have you.
 
Well at the very least endgame The Knight does show after killing Radiance to literally break free from the dream world when the guy bleeds darkness and the creatures tentacles come shooting out. Implying they escaped. Which means his final form also can cross realms

And the reason The Knight should get it aside from the Dream realm is because he still has to Fight and could Kill and sustain The hollow knight which was powered and controlled by Radiance. And in the end game of one of the endings. The Knight could absorb hollow knight and sustain his power (though is left trapped inside the egg.). Which should give him some reason to scale outside the realm Only, and Only at the end of the game
 
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