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Hollow Knight/ The Knight Potential Massive Buff

Friendly reminder that being able to travel to a place isn't indicative of having the AP outside of it. My last examples also hold this ability.

If they only show that level of power inside of the dreams, I'd say they have that level of AP within them.
 
No. I didn't mean it like that. What I mean is. After they killed the absolute radiance. Their new form ripped out through the Dream realm. It wasn't like The Knights usual thing where he just woke up which is how he usually leaves. He quite literally ripped outside of this guys mind and was still in his new form. Meaning that form itself with the power escapes the realm. And this forms feat easily destroyed the radiance


And that's what my bottom example was for. Hollow knight is powered by The Radiance. And The Knight is fully able to kill Hollow knight and even take his power and contain it. As well. Be broke the literal chains that held them from escaping. All of these outside the Dream realm. Which is why it should scale outside this realm

The Knight

Small building at least at the start of the game via gem and false knight feats

endgame The Knight can collapse the knightmare realm and defeat someone who has the power of all dream worlds, and did this both on a physical level outside the realm and inside the Dream realm. And break the literal physical chains that kept them trapped.
 
I actually agree with this ^ the knights form at the end of the game breaks out of the dream realm and is shown to exist in reality as well. He is seemingly able to at the very least flood an extremely large area with void. I don't know what sort of AP a feat like this would give.
 
Something else I noticed. In the normal ending, the Knight is actually able to absorb the entirety of the infection into himself and his eyes are glowing orange from containing it but he is able to seemingly resist the effects of not just the infection but ALL of the infection with no ill effects. So he has pretty decent resistance to mind manip.
 
From what I can tell. Dreams are made up of Essence. Essence absolutely exists in the physical world and can seemingly be used to create seals (The Pale King created a seal on the Kingsmould that prevents you from accessing the White palace without the awoken dream nail)

Essence is made up of light (according to the Hollow Knight wikia) this very much points to dreams being physical.

I will come back with more shortly.
 
If dreams are made up of essence (light) and thus physical in hollow knight, Wouldn't directly maintaining said dreams (Radiance/Nightmares Heart) scale to energy and thus durability at least somewhat? which would mean by the Knight even being able to damage them would scale to his AP? (Hollow Knight next Darksouls?) soz for spam I really like Hollow Knight verse and got excited lol.
 
Alright, so I just went and read the Op, but I haven't read any comments so I appologise if anything I bring up has already been mentioned, but I just wanted to bring up a few bits that bug me.

  1. You mentioned early on a quote that states the Radiance holds "the most power" over the dream realm, but then go on to interpret that has her holding "power over most" of the dream realm. These are not equatable statements. One states someone holds "more power then others", while the other states that someone holds "a majority of the power". These are two potentially completely different statements.
  2. I'd also like to respond to something said to my earlier comment. Just because the chains are made of essence doesn't mean they equate to the dream realm in durability. Blowing up a beach and kicking over a sand castle are two completely different feats even though both are made from sand.
  3. Another point you bring up a bunch is the Dream world holding multiple entire palaces, but these are bug sized palaces. Sure the Knight is bigger then most bugs but it's still pretty small, only a few inches tall. To bring back a metaphor, just because I kick over a sand castle doesn't mean I should get High 8-C AP.
  4. Though bug dreams are refered to as "eternal", that likely means everlasting rather then infinite in size.
I'll resopnd to comments as I get to them in new posts.
 
Buttersamuri said:
The knight breaks free from the Dream realm shown when the character explodes and the darkness comes out of him meaning it broke between dimensions and entered the real world.
Click to expand...
I'm not actually sure where you're getting this. That event was still happening in the dream realm.

We have no proof that the whole of the dream realm collapsed. The Hollow Knight was being driven mad by the Radiance, not powered up.

Buttersamuri said:
It's not like they are trying to exaggerate it being big. As they clearly use normal words like Kingdom. Palace. Village.
Click to expand...
It's more like, we understand those words so to get their point across Team Cherry used them rather then making up nonsence words that would only confuse their audence.

Please let me know if I've misunderstood anything.
 
Oh ok. I'll do it by number. For your first comment

1. That was miswritten. The idea to hold power over most of the Dream realm and control over all Bugs dreams is the main point. Even most of the dream realm is a justified upgrade. But my bad as miswritting that part.

2. Yea. That I do agree with.

3. They are indeed big sized. But that was only part of the point. The entire point is it shows the dreams can be large in size and haven't actually shown an end to them. We just can't really explore further as it isn't essential to the plot so the game doesn't let us. Aka. Game mechanics

4. There isn't much else beyond this and the fact dreams show no end that we can see. Plus he fact when we also look in the background of some. It shows that there's more to this realm than we see. At the very least. The realm itself should be considered a universe all together (if considering every Bugs Dream as a single realm).


And for comment 2


1. It happens in the real world. The dream world is flooded fore the guy you entered inside the dream of is shown and he explodes and the ooze comes out. At the end t shows hem breaking out

2. Not the dream realm. The knightmare realm. After defeating Knightmare king Grimm. It causes the destruction of the realm since he is powered by the source that holds the realm together. This is proven when you damage Knightmare kind Grimm. The Heart starts to show to be effected to.


3. We still don't have anything else to go off of. We just have that to use.
 
The Knight is actually around 10 inches according to a calc Buttersamuri did. So those castles would still be around High 8-C in size.
 
Ok. I actually have a good bit of info that proves that The Knight should scale to the dream world.

The delicate flower. This flower will be destroyed if you take damage. If you carry And go into the dream realm. Then take damage it destroys the flowers showing it connects to his physical body. And thus any feat pulled off in the dream realm scales outside it
 
I think we should give the Knight a 'God of God's' key. At the end of the game he has unified the void inside of himself with the void heart charm, this allows him to kill the godseeker and flood Godhome with his void manipulation. (which contains castles that should be around High 8-C in size as pointed out above)

The Godseekers are noted to have the ability to

'At some point, they merged within the mind of a single Godseeker. This individual can focus their thoughts into a complex dream world: Godhome. This feat is possible through their mask, which can be passed along other Godseekers.[2] They also built a temporary tuning device in order to find the resonance of other powerful beings in distant lands.'

The Godseekers are explicitly stated to have created Godhome and noted to have done it via their mask/thoughts (physical mask in the real world)

Now the Radiance should be much stronger then the Godseeker but it is also specifically stated that through 'communion' of the Godseekers the radiance is able to attain it's ultimate form 'Absolute Radiance' and the Knight kills the Absolute Radiance (Combination of the powers of the Godseekers+The Radiance) by unifying and letting the void take over he is able to fully kill the radiance (something he could only do with the help of the shade of Hollow Knight in the normal ending)

The way I see it

Goodseekers created a physical dreamworld that is at least High 8-C in size

The radiance is stronger then the Godseekers

The Knight is stronger then the radiance (only with the void unified with himself via the void heart charm, you cannot even enter the pantheon that contains the absolute radiance without this item)

The thing is as Butter said before this would actually scale to base Knight with the void heart charm as well as he was able to push the Absolute Radiance to it's limit before turning into what we see in the last Godhome ending.

This makes scaling the Knight's dreamfeats kinda weird but I think this deserves an 'At least High 8-C tier' with 'the void unified'

Sorry for long post.
 
Ok. I forgot to include this dialogue. But to quote

"Seer: "A dream is endless, but a Kingdom is not.""

This further backing up dreams are their own universe. Described as Endless and Eternal. This should help solidify the universe for dreams.

Which we can put in its own Key. Having Start Game The Knight, End Game The Knight, and God seeker The Knight (Since he goes into a demon form thing. It should be it's own key since it seems to be immensely stronger)
 
The Higher beings are discribed as god like the pale king was able to seal of a entire palace into a diffrent dimension
 
Many bring up the supposed "Size" problom but there is no evidince to sugest that hallow knigths bugs are as small as houres
 
I do want to say. "Endless" is endless no matter how big or small you are. Endless means without end. Which supports a dream being its own universe. This came from someone who is a reliable source. Someone who obviously understood the dream world. Even helping you learn the use of the Dream nail.
 
I think the best thing to do is have a key for "in the dream worlds" or something, but the Knight being tiny might cause some problems.
 
Wokistan said:
I think the best thing to do is have a key for "in the dream worlds" or something, but the Knight being tiny might cause some problems.
Click to expand...
Yea. I was thinking separate keys too. Though also having godseek since this one is even stronger, and can cross into the real world. So perhaps

Real world / Dream world / Godseek

And him being small doesn't change endless being endless. More than once being called endless, never ending. Ect. So I don't think the size of him should matter. By no means is something that's just really big is endless to them. The bug even refers the kingdom (which is really big) to not being endless while a dream actually is
 
The issue here is that there is no changes suggested. While I personally agree that the Knight should scale to feats of destroying people who have created large dream like although physical realities there is no suggestion as to how we would actually treat it. Someone would probably have to do a sandbox with proposed changes/AP upgrades etc.
 
The change would be Multiversal. Countless Bugs dreams. Even dead ones. Dreams being Endless. Aka. Universes. And radiance able to control them.

Also straight up killed Grimm, and destroyed the nightmare realm which is the equivalent of the Dream realm
 
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