High-Universal Black Clover

[BlackAstaSenpai]

Yami's dimension slash is hax, and how does the death thrust scale above the dimension slash?

I said DS is hax. But DS was casually negged by a suppressed Dante, yet Death Thrust, which his just pure condensed mana as stated by Yami, blows holes through Dante and bypasses the passive defense

 

[DivineAura44]

Jesus christ. Okay there are three simultaneous questions going on rn

1. Who / Will scale to this?
2. Endless vs Infinite (and the actual scaling)
3. Luck as a source of info

How about we deal with the most pertinent issue first, and then get to the rest rather then people making a mess of this thread. So can we discuss the ACTUAL scale for this feat so we can universally agree to wherever this will scale to before going to questions that arent relevant before we find that out.

4. Whether or not this is enough evidence. There is like 50 different conversations. People need to slow it down.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

VBW English is peak brainrot.

 

[Avengershows]

THIS AGAIN?

that stopped being a theme 50 years ago i think ur internet is just laggy

 

[Jibz]

3 pages and 0 conclusions have been made. Yeah im unfollowing from this now. Hope yall can get to an answer, but i cba to waste my time

 

[The_Alxhemist]

3 pages and 0 conclusions have been made. Yeah im unfollowing from this now. Hope yall can get to an answer, but i cba to waste my time

LMFAO

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

HE WOULDNT BE HIGH 3-A BECAUSE HE DOESNT SCALE TO HAX The feat is irrelevant because it doesn’t mean anything

Did you not read?

"DIMENSION SLASH" is hax that has a High 3-A feat by destroying Glamour World.

"DEATH THRUST" is pure power, as stated by Yami, that is referred to as his strongest spell and performs a greater feat than "DIMENSION SLASH"

 

[PsychoWarper]

Oh damn, does it really prove that it can't be stronger than that? Are there any limits? Is that regulation?

No but if something is significantly higher then anything else shown by any other character and the vast majority of the feats in the series even preformed by stronger characters are far lower why would we not classify the statements/feats related to this one thing as an outlier and use the far more consistent things?

 

[DivineAura44]

3 pages and 0 conclusions have been made. Yeah im unfollowing from this now. Hope yall can get to an answer, but i cba to waste my time

Smart man, I'll come back in half an hour when the thread has cooled down.

 

[ImmortalDread]

What? What evidence should I show im primarily using evidence on the wiki, im simply bringing up my uncertainty with how legitimate Lucks claim its endless is.

Never said it does just said if you guys disagree I wont argue it.

No, your logic is “claim need evidence”, and I also asked for your evidence for your claim. Hence, you said clearly “I don't have interests in this thread”, it means you have no shreds of evidence to support your claim, but also you wanted OP the same evidence for his claim. This is why I think you are just playing the wrong game.
Either you prove him wrong with evidence or don't claim something that has no evidence at all.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It still doesn't rule it out though, right?

It does because that’s quite literally why no one just goes out destroying universes. This argument is not one I buy into at all

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

This is nice and all but it ultimately holds no weight contextually speaking.

1. There's no actual proof it's infinite. By the looks of your OP, this entire CRT depends on you proving Glamour World is Infinite sized which isn't in the OP apart from shoddy reasoning from Luck. You say Luck couldn't sense anything but again at best speaks for Luck's sensory range. Do you have any proof Luck can sense throughout the Earth never mind around High Universal Range.

His analysis isn't credible in the slightest, I don't see why you would even think it is.

We have several instances in fiction with words like Infinite or Endless being thrown around which at the end of it is just X Character incapable of measuring how Y character is. I'll probably get heat for drawing examples but Naruto is a perfect example of this, Kurama claiming Juubi's chakra was immeasurable/infinite whereas it's just case of him being unable to fathom Juubi's energy.

As I said, even IF Luck doesn't have the capability. The fact that Magna was arguing the absurdity of an endless realm, and Reve affirmed it, is grounds for proof.

2. I don't know why you think Elf Dorothy's statement has a play in this, especially when it's obvious the statement is about her possessing Limited Reality Manip in Glamour world, no inclination of its size being High Universal.

Because she is directly responding to their argument about the size of glamour world.

My two cents on this

appreciate being respectful.

 

[KLOL506]

Jesus christ. Okay there are three simultaneous questions going on rn

1. Who / Will scale to this?
2. Endless vs Infinite (and the actual scaling)
3. Luck as a source of info

How about we deal with the most pertinent issue first, and then get to the rest rather then people making a mess of this thread. So can we discuss the ACTUAL scale for this feat so we can universally agree to wherever this will scale to before going to questions that arent relevant before we find that out.

Endless vs Infinite has been discussed to death multiple times (First in the DMC Demon World Nightmare upgrade thread, GOW Yggdrasil thread, then in its own damn thread where I and Dread argued until we both finally came to an agreement albeit with some shouting on my side), really only points 1 and 3 are worth discussing here.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

THIS AGAIN?

Don't bother with him anymore klol...not worth it.
Relevent people are trying discuss whether this can be outlier or not and UES scaling.
That is a much more worthwhile discussion... relatively speaking.

 

[KLOL506]

Don't bother with him anymore klol...not worth it.
Relevent people are trying discuss whether this can be outlier or not and UES scaling.
That is a much more worthwhile discussion... relatively speaking.

Honestly, not sure what UES has anything to do with this one here?

Anyway, I've answered my stuff, not even a Black Clover fan, just here to clarify regarding Endless vs Infinite, that's all.

 

[Jibz]

Endless vs Infinite has been discussed to death multiple times (First in the DMC Demon World Nightmare upgrade thread, GOW Yggdrasil thread, then in its own damn thread where I and Dread argued until we both finally came to an agreement albeit with some shouting on my side), really only points 1 and 3 are worth discussing here.

I know i said i was dipping but i got notifs on so i just wanna say nobody here has agreed where the feat even scales so yeah id say the actual scaling is pertinent

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

You didn't provide context nor evidence, instead you provided nothing but ambiguity and speculation from dialogue

I am not assuming anything... I'm simply saying endless is not evident enough to prove actually infinity. And luck saying it's endless goes in line with the definition of endless which means "seemingly having no end" not that You're completely knowledgeable on the true nature of what you're looking but from what you can perceive there is no end so hence it is endless. And magna said that's impossible. I see no implactions of infinity here

Reve said said the "impossible is possible" how does that imply Infinity? You have nothing but speculations

I'd like to see where her combat capabilities caused the glamour world to collapse. And again are you implying Tami's death thrust has universal AP?

This whole post of yours just shows you're not reading if you think I didn't provide context of the dialogue.

But, Yes. Death Thrust would be High 3-A. I provided the scans of their dreams destroying the glamour world.

 

[JOLTxx]

"DIMENSION SLASH" is hax that has a High 3-A feat by destroying Glamour World.

Dimension slash has no high 3-A feat... It Slashing the glamour world was nothing more than spatial manipulation or limited space-time manipulation

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

"DIMENSION SLASH" is hax that has a High 3-A feat by destroying Glamour World.

No, YOU’RE not reading.

It isn’t “hax that has a High 3-A feat”. That’s literally an oxymoron.

The feat is hax. The feat isn’t EVEN a feat because it was accomplished thru hax. Thus, NOTHING scales, not even Death Thrust.

You clearly have zero knowledge on how scaling works

 

[Arkenis]

Dorothy is a witch, a reincarnation of an apostle of Sephirah (Reve) who is one of the ten strongest elves blessed and chosen by God. A character weaker than her (Patry) is said to have limitless, or bottomless mana.

If its not infinite then it doesn't really matter

I don't see how stamina issues necessarily play a role into this. Characters can have access to infinite energy and still display stamina issues by using infinite energy or taking damage as well. As for the other part, characters are amazed by her Glamour World not just for it's sheer size, but for what she can do with it. She can summon endless attacks, use her imagination to create nearly anything, and when she fought Yami, made over a dozen clones of himself that fought against him.

Stamina plays a role into it since we're arguing about infinite creation via the verse's energy source which powers everyone. I don't care if other verses show it, I care if Black Clover is consistent with it, so does Patry show stamina issues? Does anyone who has more mana than him have stamina issues?

Reve is an Apostle and Dorothy is a Captain, their ranks being acknowledgment of them being above other characters. Though I don't know what specific characters you are referencing.

I'm saying that if a character does something impressive, some implication of superiority would be shown from other's about the statement, like some acknowledging her being above others due to the feat.

I'd argue that it is AP based. Since when Reve was tricked, she accidentally made a clone of Dorothy. The two fought with their dreams, and the power of their dreams destroyed Glamour World.

what does this have to do with what you responded to?

If these aren’t met then I generally write the feat off as creation hax, there isn’t enough concreteness to justify it i.e too many aspects of it can be interpreted in different ways that make it become a battle of interpretations which at the end boil down to nothing.

 

[KLOL506]

that stopped being a theme 50 years ago i think ur internet is just laggy

That meme's older than my mother, but nice try.

 

[KLOL506]

VBW English is peak brainrot.

Don't I know it.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Honestly, not sure what UES has anything to do with this one here?

Anyway, I've answered my stuff, not even a Black Clover fan, just here to clarify regarding Endless vs Infinite, that's all.

This realm is a result of creation feat and there is apparently destruction feats involved with it as well according to OP.
So they are arguing whether Creation/Destruction scales to AP or its just hax or Environmental Destruction.

Btw from what I know Black Clover has a well established UES in form of magic.

 

[Damage3245]

It does because that’s quite literally why no one just goes out destroying universes. This argument is not one I buy into at all

What about when it comes to characters struggling to destroy something of a smaller scale?

After all, it is hard to say that the characters are supposed to be Universal in AP if they're exerting themselves and they're struggling to destroy something much less durable than a Universe, right?

 

[Arkenis]

No, YOU’RE not reading.

It isn’t “hax that has a High 3-A feat”. That’s literally an oxymoron.

The feat is hax. The feat isn’t EVEN a feat because it was accomplished thru hax. Thus, NOTHING scales, not even Death Thrust.

You clearly have zero knowledge on how scaling works

There can be hax that is High 3-A, also if someone beat Yami's same attack in the future then it would end up scaling that person to the prior feat.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Alright, let's start this from the beginning

"DIMENSION SLASH" is hax that has a High 3-A feat by destroying Glamour World.

"DEATH THRUST" is pure power, as stated by Yami, that is referred to as his strongest spell and performs a greater feat than "DIMENSION SLASH"

Mind showing proofs of this? Once you provide them, we can discuss it, and we require some proof of his claim @Mazdoesstuff against it

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What about when it comes to characters struggling to destroy something of a smaller scale?

After all, it is hard to say that the characters are supposed to be Universal in AP if they're exerting themselves and they're struggling to destroy something much less durable than a Universe, right?

Like what? Do you have any examples of this? Just out of curiosity.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

Dimension slash has no high 3-A feat... It Slashing the glamour world was nothing more than spatial manipulation or limited space-time manipulation

Went to the Spatial manipulation page and it doesn't look like Dimension slash would be a part of that based on the wording.

 

[Arkenis]

It's not a limiting feat though.

Would they not have logically destroyed more if they had universal ap?

 

[KLOL506]

Would they not have logically destroyed more if they had universal ap?

AP =/= DC

 

[DivineAura44]

What about when it comes to characters struggling to destroy something of a smaller scale?

After all, it is hard to say that the characters are supposed to be Universal in AP if they're exerting themselves and they're struggling to destroy something much less durable than a Universe, right?

PIS does in fact exist, this is a common theme in shows.

 

[JOLTxx]

This whole post of yours just shows you're not reading if you think I didn't provide context of the dialogue.

False speculative analysis ≠ Credible provision of context in dialogue. You're going off based on the word "endless" which means seemingly without end. Luck didn't see an end just like when you're the ocean all you see is water and there is no end to it and luck says "it's endless" a statement based on his own perspective and doesn't in any way dictate the nature of glamour world and hence makes his perspective non credible. The only credible source we can trust is Dorothy and she has made no such statements or.implications that suggests glamour world being infinite.

But, Yes. Death Thrust would be High 3-A

Death thrust has no such feats

I provided the scans of their dreams destroying the glamour world.

The glamour world collapsed because it couldn't contain the imagination of 2 people.. it is not application of combat capabilities instead the nature of the dimension

 

[SuperStar]

Dante Negged Yami's Dimension Slash. So Yami needed a spell that was pure power. So he condensed his mana and launched it at Dante, and it straight up blew a hole through him while Dimension Slash was straight up negged.

He did not "negged" the Dimension Slash, he warped it with the gravity Singularity that doesn't scale the Death Thrust above the Dimension Slash.

 

[Arkenis]

AP =/= DC

What??

 

[Damage3245]

PIS does in fact exist, this is a common theme in shows.

PIS isn't a universal excuse for characters having antifeats.

 

[KLOL506]

What??

Attack potency =/= Destructive Capacity

 

[KLOL506]

PIS isn't a universal excuse for characters having antifeats.

Okay then, like Gilver asked, bring up some examples of what feats you're talking about.

 

[DivineAura44]

PIS isn't a universal excuse for characters having antifeats.

Next you're gonna tell me that because Broly when not holding back at all couldn't destroy a planet, that he's only moon level.

 

[Arkenis]

Attack potency =/= Destructive Capacity

Yeah I know what you meant, I'm asking why you are telling me it, my statement isn't about that, It's about the feat not being more if they had more mana for the feat.

 

[JOLTxx]

I want to thank you for dropping that definition, you just made me realize something very interesting... Your definition said "seemingly having no end or limi" emphasis on the "seemingly" and I crossed checked this definition with my advanced learners Oxford dictionary and it said the same thing. The world endless is something that seemingly has no end or limit which is different from the word infinite which means "without end or limit". Going back to the subject at hand luck says the glamour world is endless because from his point of view it seems to have no end and therefore said it's endless. Not that the glamour world is indeed infinite. The only person who is credible enough to confirm the size of glamour world if it is indeed infinite or not is the the creator Dorothy unsworth and she has made no such Statements or implications that suggests show. @KingTempest @Damage3245 do you agree with me on this?

@BlackAstaSenpai @Damage3245 @CloverDragon03 @Damage3245