High-Universal Black Clover

[Damage3245]

I’m neutral on this but this is, in my opinion, a terrible refutation. Any character that has Universe level AP would end up with the same question of “why can’t they consistently destroy the universe?” It’s a story thing, if BC characters went around nuking universes, the story would end. This is like asking why DBS Goku’s standard ki blasts don’t destroy the universe.

It still doesn't rule it out though, right?

 

[Romeu08]

Why are you guys debating the meaning of endless instead of debating If the dude that said that It looked endless is a reliable source for that?
What's his qualifications and sensorial skills?

 

[DivineAura44]

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Yami's Death Thrust isn't hax and it scales above dimension slash sooo

??? This is literally irrelevant to my statement, and it gives the idea you didn’t read my statement.

Death Thrust not being hax is irrelevant, and same with it scaling above dimension slash, because it doesn’t MEAN ANYTHING. Dimension Slash ISNT High 3-A

 

[Avengershows]

But brother, you also claimed that it can't be. So prove it with your claim

I never claimed it can't be, I claimed that there's 0 proof for it being infinite. Y'all keep constantly misinterpreting what I was saying

 

[Quantu]

The highest feat in the series is literally country level

 

[DivineAura44]

Why are you guys debating the meaning of endless instead of debating If the dude that said that It looked endless is a reliable source for that?
What's his qualifications and sensorial skills?

The OP gives a reason for why Luck apparently is reliable.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I wasn't applying the Circle to a 3D realm, I was applying it to the definition of Endless and Infinite, aka without relation to the realm.

So you are just being disingenuous??

This thread is clearly talking about SIZE of a realm.
If "size" is an attribute or property of the the realm it can be finite or infinite.

When you talk about circle...and how it has no beginning or an end..... its NOT TALKING ABOUT SIZE.... you are referring to completely different attribute about said shape.

So stop mischaracterizing both.

A single object can have 500 different attributes out of which some can be infinite while others are fiinite.

Plenty of characters in this site have infinite AP without having infinite size or infinite speed.

 

[KLOL506]

It still doesn't rule it out though, right?

See, the logic with that is, you could apply this to literally any feat in fiction out there. NARRATIVE AND BALANCING ARE A THING for a good reason.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Then prove it. Prove that your statement proves OP to be hyperbolic or contradicting. Otherwise nothing proves it to be finite.

While I don’t care much about the Endless vs Infinite debate im still uncertain if what the OP provided is enough to actually prove it is Endless in the first place as its just a character with really good senses, but not the ability to sense something of infinite or endless size afaik, so it could mean its endless but it could legitimately mean its simply bigger then Luck can sense. I am also uncertain how the conversation between Magna, Luck and the Girl make it genuinely endless as well.

Perhaps you guys disagree with me that the Endless is legit which I won’t fight super hard on as my main gripe is still that its a huge outlier and inconsistent with the rest of the story and feats.

 

[Jibz]

Lost track of what even is going on here

Tldr; Argument is that a place being called ”endless” is enough for High 3-A (along with some other supporting evidence that doesnt really prove H3-A) when it really isn’t.

I dont really care if it gets a possible rating due to the ambigious nature of “endless” but if it does then thats a W for a diff character who i wont name.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Anyways this thread is literally hilarious, both the premise and the fact that it devolved into a dozen people arguing on the definition of “endless”

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

The highest feat in the series is literally country level

It's not a limiting feat though.

 

[Avengershows]

So you are just being disingenuous??

This thread is clearly talking about SIZE of a realm.
If "size" is an attribute or property of the the realm it can be finite or infinite.

When you talk about circle...and how it has no beginning or an end..... its NOT TALKING ABOUT SIZE.... you are referring to completely different attribute about said shape.

So stop mischaracterizing both.

A single object can have 500 different attributes out of which some can be infinite while others are fiinite.

Plenty of characters in this site have infinite AP without having infinite size or infinite speed.

No, I was using the analogy of a circle to show that endless doesn't necessairly mean infinite in size. I was not using it in reference to the realm but to the definition of the word endless itself. Please reread what I was saying

 

[KLOL506]

While I don’t care much about the Endless vs Infinite debate im atill uncertain if what the OP provided is enough to actually prove it is Endless in the first place as its just a character with really good sense, but not the ability to sense something of infinite or endless size afaik, so it could mean its endless but it could legitimately mean its simply bigger then Luck can sense. I am also uncertain how the conversation between Magna, Luck and the Girl make it genuinely endless as well.

Perhaps you guys disagree with me that the Endless is legit which I won’t fight super hard on as my main gripe is still that its a huge outlier and inconsistent with the rest of the story and feats.

Like I said, only contradictions within the source material or it being hyperbole can debunk it being that big. From what you're stating, it seems to be the problem of the former.

 

[SuperStar]

Yami's Death Thrust isn't hax and it scales above dimension slash sooo

Explain

 

[ImmortalDread]

While I don’t care much about the Endless vs Infinite debate im atill uncertain if what the OP provided is enough to actually prove it is Endless in the first place as its just a character with really good sense, but not the ability to sense something of infinite or endless size afaik, so it could mean its endless but it could legitimately mean its simply bigger then Luck can sense. I am also uncertain how the conversation between Magna, Luck and the Girl make it genuinely endless as well.

Perhaps you guys disagree with me that the Endless is legit which I won’t fight super hard on as my main gripe is still that its a huge outlier and inconsistent with the rest of the story and feats.

Bruh, guys he literally doesn't want to prove but also don't want to show evidence. I am done. He wants OP pieces of evidence, but when we do reverse question, he refuses to show any pieces of evidence. Less interest does not justify that your claim is solid. No, mate, we don't play like this.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

TFW the god tier of the verse would only be capable of “destroying the world” while fully manifested, the strongest feats in the series are only Tier 6, but someone like Dorothy can somehow create High 3-A realms like they’re nothing

 

[Damage3245]

See, the logic with that is, you could apply this to literally any feat in fiction out there. NARRATIVE AND BALANCING ARE A THING for a good reason.

I agree. That's why I wouldn't use it as the sole measuring stick of measuring the consistency, but it is a factor.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

No, I was using the analogy of a circle to show that endless doesn't necessairly mean infinite in size. I was not using it in reference to the realm but to the definition of the word endless itself. Please reread what I was saying

And I keep saying its a completely and utterly irrelevant thing to bring up here.

 

[Romeu08]

From what i can see in luck page his best feats is only a few miles wide so It makes sense that her realm must be just in the range of miles atmost
And Dorothy saying that the impossible is possible is atmost her flexing on them her manipulation skills

 

[ImmortalDread]

The highest feat in the series is literally country level

Oh damn, does it really prove that it can't be stronger than that? Are there any limits? Is that regulation?

 

[Jibz]

TFW the god tier of the verse would only be capable of “destroying the world” while fully manifested, but someone like Dorothy can somehow create High 3-A realms like they’re nothing

Pause is this with just them awakening from their non manifested state, or when they actually attack.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

??? This is literally irrelevant to my statement, and it gives the idea you didn’t read my statement.

Death Thrust not being hax is irrelevant, and same with it scaling above dimension slash, because it doesn’t MEAN ANYTHING. Dimension Slash ISNT High 3-A

Yes it is. For example if Yami used Dimension Slash in the physical world and it did the same thing, collapsing the space of the infinite universe and destroying it, then he would be High 3-A. He did this, but in GLamour World. And Death Thrust, a non-hax, scales above Dimension Slash.

 

[SuperStar]

And as I said before this scales to no one even if she was High Uni

Yami destroyed her world with hax and not AP

And Morris beat her, but it was an off-screen fight

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

Oh damn, does it really prove that it can't be stronger than that? Are there any limits? Is that regulation?

It shouldn't be limited to country level. The country level calc stems from Demon Licht being able to destroy the country. But, it was actually only the aftershocks of his attack, after the Wizard King countered his spell, that was going to destroy it.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

And as I said before this scales to no one even if she was High Uni

Yami destroyed her world with hax and not AP

And Morris beat her, but it was an off-screen fight

Yami's Dimension Slash destroyed and Infinite World, and Death Thrust scales above Dimension Slash.

 

[KLOL506]

I agree. That's why I wouldn't use it as the sole measuring stick of measuring the consistency, but it is a factor.

I honestly wouldn't use it for anything unless it violates the narrative and every single aspect of the verse's powerscaling chain. Read my reply to Clover regarding this.

 

[Romeu08]

Can anyone even prove that Luck has a feat that allows him to judge infinite sizes before debating the size of the place

 

[Avengershows]

And I keep saying its a completely and utterly irrelevant thing to bring up here.

It was relevant then, as it was an analogy showing why the word "endless" and "infinite" are not full 100% synonyms with the exact same definitions

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Yes it is. For example if Yami used Dimension Slash in the physical world and it did the same thing, collapsing the space of the infinite universe and destroying it, then he would be High 3-A.

HE WOULDNT BE HIGH 3-A BECAUSE HE DOESNT SCALE TO HAX The feat is irrelevant because it doesn’t mean anything

 

[DivineAura44]

People need to drop this dumbass "Endless" argument. Infinite literally means without end. If I have to explain why that's synonymous with endless, something's wrong. The only refutation so far is whether or not this is an outlier. Literally just cluttering the thread with bs.

 

[SuperStar]

Yami's Dimension Slash destroyed and Infinite World, and Death Thrust scales above Dimension Slash.

Yami's dimension slash is hax, and how does the death thrust scale above the dimension slash?

 

[The_Alxhemist]

The evidence for Black Clover being High-Universal stems from the fact that it was stated and affirmed that Glamour World is an infinite-sized realm. And because creation feats can be scaled to attack potency, this would make Dorothy and anyone who scales to/above her as High-Universal. But before proving that her creation feat should scale to her AP as considered by this wiki's standards, I'll provide you with the evidence that shows that Glamour World is infinite in size:

While in Glamour World, the conversation goes as follows...

Luck says: "This place... There's no border. It's endless."

Magna says: "Huh? Luck, you moron. That's not even possible."

Reve (elf-Dorothy) responds to Luck and Magna by saying: "Here in Glamour World....The impossible is possible. It's all the way I want it to be."

This is nice and all but it ultimately holds no weight contextually speaking.

1. There's no actual proof it's infinite. By the looks of your OP, this entire CRT depends on you proving Glamour World is Infinite sized which isn't in the OP apart from shoddy reasoning from Luck. You say Luck couldn't sense anything but again at best speaks for Luck's sensory range. Do you have any proof Luck can sense throughout the Earth never mind around High Universal Range.

His analysis isn't credible in the slightest, I don't see why you would even think it is.

We have several instances in fiction with words like Infinite or Endless being thrown around which at the end of it is just X Character incapable of measuring how Y character is. I'll probably get heat for drawing examples but Naruto is a perfect example of this, Kurama claiming Juubi's chakra was immeasurable/infinite whereas it's just case of him being unable to fathom Juubi's energy.

2. I don't know why you think Elf Dorothy's statement has a play in this, especially when it's obvious the statement is about her possessing Limited Reality Manip in Glamour world, no inclination of its size being High Universal.

My two cents on this

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

Explain

Dante Negged Yami's Dimension Slash. So Yami needed a spell that was pure power. So he condensed his mana and launched it at Dante, and it straight up blew a hole through him while Dimension Slash was straight up negged.

 

[JOLTxx]

The word endless CAN mean Infinite. Already gone over this. And provided the context as to why this is the case.

You didn't provide context nor evidence, instead you provided nothing but ambiguity and speculation from dialogue

If Luck is using the definition of the world endless that you assume, upon what grounds does Magna have to say that it's impossible?

I am not assuming anything... I'm simply saying endless is not evident enough to prove actually infinity. And luck saying it's endless goes in line with the definition of endless which means "seemingly having no end" not that You're completely knowledgeable on the true nature of what you're looking but from what you can perceive there is no end so hence it is endless. And magna said that's impossible. I see no implactions of infinity here

Endless CAN mean infinite if the context follows. Which I've substantiated. Reve literally affirmed that Glamour World is infinite by her response to Luck and Magna

Reve said said the "impossible is possible" how does that imply Infinity? You have nothing but speculations

Her combat abilities caused the Glamour World itself to collapse.

Yami destroyed it using a hax ability. Though now his death thrust, which

I'd like to see where her combat capabilities caused the glamour world to collapse. And again are you implying Tami's death thrust has universal AP?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Bruh, guys he literally doesn't want to prove but also don't want to show evidence. I am done. He wants OP pieces of evidence, but when we do reverse question, he refuses to show any pieces of evidence.

What? What evidence should I show im primarily using evidence on the wiki, im simply bringing up my uncertainty with how legitimate Lucks claim its endless is.

Less interest does not justify that your claim is solid. No, mate, we don't play like this.

Never said it does just said if you guys disagree I wont argue it.

 

[Jibz]

Jesus christ. Okay there are three simultaneous questions going on rn

1. Who / Will scale to this?
2. Endless vs Infinite (and the actual scaling)
3. Luck as a source of info

How about we deal with the most pertinent issue first, and then get to the rest rather then people making a mess of this thread. So can we discuss the ACTUAL scale for this feat so we can universally agree to wherever this will scale to before going to questions that arent relevant before we find that out.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

TFW the god tier of the verse would only be capable of “destroying the world” while fully manifested, the strongest feats in the series are only Tier 6, but someone like Dorothy can somehow create High 3-A realms like they’re nothing

"only be capable" is setting a limit on him when he could arguably do it casually.

 

[KLOL506]

It was relevant then, as it was an analogy showing why the word "endless" and "infinite" are not full 100% synonyms with the exact same definitions

THIS AGAIN?