High-Universal Black Clover

[BlackAstaSenpai]

The context shows that it is the latter definition. The "seemingly without end" because from luck's point of view and his sensory capabilities there is no end.

Why are you only focusing on the context of Luck's POV? It's weird because the focal point of the scene is on the three characters and is the crux of my argument. Luck even being wrong doesn't even matter. If he's wrong, you still have Magna calling it impossible. And then, Reve saying it is possible, because that's the way she wants it to be.

Or are you going to say that something "seeming to have no end" is impossible?

The dream world couldn't contain the dreams of two people... It's the nature and rule of the dream world to contain only one individuals dreams so it collapsed. It's not an application of combat capabilities or AP

If it was the rule of the dream world then there would only be one individual's dreams portrayed. But both can use their dreams. "It can't support the dreams of two people.. Glamour World... Is collapsing.." Means that it's not strong enough to support their dreams. Their dreams > Glamour World.

 

[PsychoWarper]

You want anti-feats? DC and Marvel are the cornerstone and big daddies of that. Just look at the recent "infinite-sized universe" CRTs taking place for Marvel and DC

Comics are a pretty unfortunate mess when it comes to scaling and consistency, thankfully for Marvel Zark and them have down a fairly good job with it.

 

[KLOL506]

What do you mean prove? Dimensional Slash is a spatial-cutting attack, meaning that it severed space, such as against Glamour World. Severing space is not a DC feat, such as fragmentation, pulverization, et cetera. As there is no destructive value for the feat, it isn’t High 3-A.

One correction: DC is Destructive Capacity and relies on the area-of-effect of the attack and its size. Attack Potency is the energy value of said attack. Neither necessarily rely on destruction values like fragmentation, pulverization, etc.

 

[Arkenis]

What do you mean prove? Dimensional Slash is a spatial-cutting attack, meaning that it severed space, such as against Glamour World. Severing space is not a DC feat, such as fragmentation, pulverization, et cetera. As there is no destructive value for the feat, it isn’t High 3-A.

There’s a reason why we don’t list Dimension Slash as a higher for AP, but we do for Death Thrust

I mean if he cut the universe in half via spatial cutting, that's destruction no matter how you look at it.

 

[KLOL506]

Comics are a pretty unfortunate mess when it comes to scaling and consistency, thankfully for Marvel Zark and them have down a fairly good job with it.

You forgetting my man Emirp, Tracer and Confluctor who also fought like hell to upgrade Marvel, and will soon take on DC?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I wonder... Since when is broly not destroying a universe an anti feat when he fought and bullied two characters with universal+ Level of AP and durability. 3 characters in fact if we include frieza but frieza would most likely be 3-A

That's scaling.
Not actual feats. When has Freeza ever destroyed Universe for example?

 

[KLOL506]

I mean if he cut the universe in half via spatial cutting, that's destruction no matter how you look at it.

Sparda and Pluto from DMC are the literal poster boys of this. They got 2-C for splitting the Demon World into two halves before they got upped to 1-C.

 

[PsychoWarper]

You forgetting my man Emirp, Tracer and Confluctor who also fought like hell to upgrade Marvel, and will soon take on DC?

I don't interact with them often, primarily interact with Zark in terms of Marvel so I just mainly going off my experiences, apologies.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

Havn't other characters narratively weaker then Lucifero preformed tier 6 feats? Also tbf 6-C is a far smaller jump then High 3-A

I'm pretty sure everything is upscaled from the 6-B calc Demon Licht calc. I accidentally was saying 6-C earlier.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I mean if he cut the universe in half via spatial cutting, that's destruction no matter how you look at it.

True, and one good example that we use as AP is Yhwach. He is also scaled to universal because of destruction.

 

[DivineAura44]

I wonder... Since when is broly not destroying a universe an anti feat when he fought and bullied two characters with universal+ Level of AP and durability. 3 characters in fact if we include frieza but frieza would most likely be 3-A

The argument would clearly be none of them are 3-A...

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

True, and one good example that we use as AP is Yhwach. He is also scaled to universal because of destruction.

exactly.

 

[The_Alxhemist]

As I said, even IF Luck doesn't have the capability. The fact that Magna was arguing the absurdity of an endless realm, and Reve affirmed it, is grounds for proof.

Magna argued with it, Reve says anything is possible. This isn't affirmation.

Because she is directly responding to their argument about the size of glamour world.

Except she isn't.

Magna says stuff isn't possible and she said nothing is impossible. Her saying anything is possible ≠ confirmation is Glamour World being High Universal.


Funniest part is her statement was meant to showcase what she did afterwards by turning a bed into a rose field and conjuring up a summon, nothing about the size.

The fact that we're taking Luck's eyesight as proof of an infinite universe is insane. Why has no one pointed this out yet?

1. There's no proof Luck can see or sense that far.

2. There's still no substantial evidence Dorothy possessing enough Magical power to create or maintain an infinite universe

3. They've gone through more than a hundred chapters since then with ZERO supporting evidence for this.

1 shoddy misinterpreted statement vs the established scaling of the verse.

appreciate being respectful.

Always

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

One correction: DC is Destructive Capacity and relies on the area-of-effect of the attack and its size. Attack Potency is the energy value of said attack. Neither necessarily rely on destruction values like fragmentation, pulverization, etc.

Thank you for the correction, but point still stands. No energy value can be determined from simply cutting space

 

[ImmortalDread]

There's no proof Luck can see or sense that far.

One question tho, is there any proof he can't see or sense that far?

 

[PsychoWarper]

So Lucks sensory is in fact limited to multiple miles (As shown here "1-2" when as the Black Bulls are moving forward Luck is able to eventually sense them but wasn't before hand) meaning he can't actually sense the true size of the World, but Magna saying that's impossible and Sally saying its possible is the proof that it is in fact endless? Why would Sally know the exact capabilities and "limits" (Or lack there of) of Dorthey's powers? She isn't even one of the more active Captains who show off their powers all the time.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Thank you for the correction, but point still stands. No energy value can be determined from simply cutting space

Wrong actually. I remember a character getting 4A because he spatially cut a galaxy in half. You can gwt 3B for cutting 3A sized universes... or 2C for for full spacetime cutting universes.

 

[DivineAura44]

Magna argued with it, Reve says anything is possible. This isn't affirmation.

Don't wanna speak something I'm not confident on but I think what Asta is arguing is that Luck says "it's endless". Magna says something along the lines of "that's impossible". Reve than counters with "anything's possible". Implying that it is in fact endless.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So Lucks sensory is in fact limited to multiple miles (As shown here "1-2" when as the Black Bulls are moving forward Luck is able to eventually sense them but wasn't before hand) meaning he can't actually sense the true size of the World, but Magna saying that's impossible and Sally saying its possible is the proof that it is in fact endless? Why would Sally know the exact capabilities and "limits" (Or lack there of) of Dorthey's powers? She isn't even one of the more active Captains who show off their powers all the time.

The links are not working, also don't use discord images since Wiki forbids that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I disagree, I think the OP is OK, but the fact jumping from like 6-B to High 3-A when the feat was apparently performed by Dorothy who is apparently a fodder kind of kills any upgrades because people superior to her have feats that are tier 6 consistently.

I don't see a good reason to call this anything but an outlier TBH

 

[JOLTxx]

Why are you only focusing on the context of Luck's POV? It's weird because the focal point of the scene is on the three characters and is the crux of my argument.

I'm focused on luck's point of view because he is the person making that assessment and he is making that statement not because he knows the true nature of the world of glamour but from his perspective.

If he's wrong, you still have Magna calling it impossible

Magna saying it's impossible is irrelevant and is has no bearing on the true nature of the glamour world. Magna is also unintelligent and he's words should be discarded. I'm even curious sef, how does magna saying "it's impossible" give any form of credibility to what luck said?

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

Magna argued with it, Reve says anything is possible. This isn't affirmation.

That is implied affirmation, yes.

Except she isn't.

Magna says stuff isn't possible and she said nothing is impossible. Her saying anything is possible ≠ confirmation is Glamour World being High Universal.

Magna says "That's not possible" To Luck saying the Glamour World is endless. That means Magna is construing "It's not possible for this world to be endless." And Reve says "here in glamour world, the impossible is possible. It's all the way I want to be." She is responding to him and that is affirmation.

Funniest part is her statement was meant to showcase what she did afterwards by turning a bed into a rose field and conjuring up a summon, nothing about the size.

The fact that we're taking Luck's eyesight as proof of an infinite universe is insane. Why has no one pointed this out yet?

1. There's no proof Luck can see or sense that far.

2. There's still no substantial evidence Dorothy possessing enough Magical power to create or maintain an infinite universe

3. They've gone through more than a hundred chapters since then with ZERO supporting evidence for this.

1 shoddy misinterpreted statement vs the established scaling of the verse.

Always

Luck doesn't even NEED to be right since Reve is responding to Magna's claim. Magna's claim is that the glamour world cannot be infinite.
She scales above people who have been stated to have bottomless mana. But still, people have High-Uni or universal+ feats in other worlds WITHOUT infinite energy.

Just because Dorothy doesn't fight much, doesn't negate it. The evidence is already sufficient.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Wrong actually. I remember a character getting 4A because he spatially cut a galaxy in half. You can gwt 3B for cutting 3A sized universes... or 2C for for full spacetime cutting universes.

Proof?

 

[The_Alxhemist]

One question tho, is there any proof he can't see or sense that far?

Burden of proof is on you or the OP.

Not me. He made a claim, about Luck which he has yet to prove.

3. Burden of proof fallacy

This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim

 

[JOLTxx]

When has Freeza ever destroyed Universe for example

I don't recall destroying a universe being the only criteria for a character to qualify for a universal tier

 

[DivineAura44]

I disagree, I think the OP is OK, but the fact jumping from like 6-B to High 3-A when the feat was apparently performed by Dorothy who is apparently a fodder kind of kills any upgrades because people superior to her have feats that are tier 6 consistently.

I don't see a good reason to call this anything but an outlier TBH

Omg, an actually valid argument. I didn't know that was possible from this thread.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Proof?

Gimme a moment. I will link.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

So Lucks sensory is in fact limited to multiple miles (As shown here "1-2" when as the Black Bulls are moving forward Luck is able to eventually sense them but wasn't before hand) meaning he can't actually sense the true size of the World, but Magna saying that's impossible and Sally saying its possible is the proof that it is in fact endless? Why would Sally know the exact capabilities and "limits" (Or lack there of) of Dorthey's powers? She isn't even one of the more active Captains who show off their powers all the time.

Why are you bringing up Sally, when it is Reve that affirms the possilbity of her powers?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Burden of proof is on you or the OP.

Not me. He made a claim, about Luck which he has yet to prove.

Ahm, you made also a claim, and I'm asking for your proof of that. Your claim is not solid.

 

[JOLTxx]

The argument would clearly be none of them are 3-A...

But all of them are at least 3-A

 

[DivineAura44]

Burden of proof is on you or the OP.

Not me. He made a claim, about Luck which he has yet to prove.

Reve basically just confirms that Luck is right by saying anything's possible.

 

[DivineAura44]

But all of them are at least 3-A

Based on?

 

[KLOL506]

Wrong actually. I remember a character getting 4A because he spatially cut a galaxy in half. You can gwt 3B for cutting 3A sized universes... or 2C for for full spacetime cutting universes.

Splitting feats can absolutely net you AP yields, true, it can't be just hax alone. Also that shit stops making sense for Tiers High 3-A and above. Even significantly affecting Low 2-C realms via "retcon punches" have no energy yields but at Tier 2 they stop making sense so there's no point applying that arbitrary limit there anymore.

 

[PsychoWarper]

The links are not working, also don't use discord images since Wiki forbids that.

Shit

The Black Bull they are all in is moving at high speeds towards the capital, Luck at first does not sense these elves until a few moments later which would include getting closer to them which seems to indicate there was a point of distance he didn't sense them. Even if you wanted to argue the Elves only like just arrived or something that means there was a point between them on the Capital where all the Elves are Luck didn't sense them.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Why are you bringing up Sally, when it is Reve that affirms the possilbity of her powers?

I had thought it was Sally, I was mistaken apologies.

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

I'm focused on luck's point of view because he is the person making that assessment and he is making that statement not because he knows the true nature of the world of glamour but from his perspective.

Incorrect. Luck's make the initial assessment, Magna disputes it, Reve affirms it. Reve is the creator of the spell. So focusing purely on Luck when his actual perspective isn't as important as Reve's is not sound.

Magna saying it's impossible is irrelevant and is has no bearing on the true nature of the glamour world. Magna is also unintelligent and he's words should be discarded. I'm even curious sef, how does magna saying "it's impossible" give any form of credibility to what luck said?

"Magna's statement has no relevance and no bearing on glamour world"

*reads series
*Reve was responding to Magna's claim

oof

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Damn you guys lasted 4 pages I’m impressed. When I was sent this link I only gave it a few hours.

Anyways the feat is solid but it’s obviously controversial. Isn’t there a way to only make it apply to just her creation feat? It’s not like she’ll use 3-A creations inside the glamour world. That will make everyone happy instead of arguing forever, plus I think it’s accurate this way too.

please don’t kill me

 

[JOLTxx]

Don't wanna speak something I'm not confident on but I think what Asta is arguing is that Luck says "it's endless". Magna says something along the lines of "that's impossible". Reve than counters with "anything's possible". Implying that it is in fact endless.

Which is speculative analysis and not actual facts. Luck made a statement from his perspective, magna disagrees and says that's impossible. Reve says "The impossible is possible" which is not a direct implication that it is indeed infinite. If so it only proves that it is endless in the sense that the glamour world seemingly Has no end from one's (luck's) perspective

 

[BlackAstaSenpai]

I had thought it was Sally, I was mistaken apologies.

no worries.

 

[DaReaperMan]

But all of them are at least 3-A

Consistent tier 7 and 6 from characters superior and 3-A do not belong in the same verse lol