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High 7-A Tournament Round 1, Match 4 (Metagross VS Sanji)

Note: He attacked Doflamingo with DJ in an attempt to protect his crew, and against plenty of other characters too.

(Nothing is stopping him from using DJ at the start of the match)
 
Arceus0x said:
Pretty sure in this case it is confusion which basically puts your brain in a heavily confuses state where you are pretty much beating yourself up and it is a state that not only is hard to snap out of but also can be re-cast.
Click to expand...
If that's the case sanji snaps out of it easy with future sight or instinctive reaction...
 


it just instantly hits them. It won't hold him down but it is a damage dealing move that also lowers defense
 
Allow me to summarize all the arguments such as advantages and disadvantages presented on this match:

Psychic:
Sanji's LS is G and Metagross's LS is Class 100, due to the insurmountable gap in their Lifting strength, Metagross's physic is rendered useless.

Diablo Jambe:
We've now established that Sanji will definitely lead with Diablo Jambe, which is super effective against Metagross.

Who's faster?
Judging by both profiles. Sanji is faster than Meta. Sanji is Rel+ and Meta is Rel (due to Sanji's fighting style resolves around combos in quick succession + Diablo Jambe ( Fire manipulation), but now that Sanji got the speed advantage ain't looking good for Meta.

Who's stronger:
due to Meta's tough claws from what I heard amps his AP. Means that he holds the AP advantage over Sanji. Apparently he got more buffs.

Mind Manipulation:
We are currently debating if it works on Sanji or not, so that were all arguments presented here.
 
But that begs the question will Metagross lead with "mind manipulation" in the first place or how does it work against characters faster than you? I'm not quite familiar with how we use Pokemon moves in debates, so it would be neat if anyone mind explaining me these things
 
Arceus0x said:
invisibility doesn't really help against that. He's invisible not invincible.
Click to expand...
How will he use mind manipulation on someone who is invis... What?
Bernkastelll said:
How is invisibility related with mind defenses?
Click to expand...
??? How does someone mind hax against someone you can't see...
Arceus0x said:
Anyways he doesn't even begin in raid suit
Click to expand...
He'll use it if it's necessary or needs to... Which he has enough time to use because of future sight
 
Although, my question still remains unanswered why would Metagross lead with mind manp? wouldn't it make sense for Meta to use Physic. Also, i still don't get how confusion works outside of games, people telling me it instantly hits it's target regardless of invisibility and range, which i find a bit weird considering that this move heavily relies on accuracy and if the oppo gets confused. Or are we talking about something else than confusion?
 

Moves​

  • Agility: Metagross uses its psychic abilities to greatly increase its own speed by relaxing and lightening its body.
  • Bullet Punch: Metagross throws an ultra-fast punch that far exceeds its normal speed to strike first.
  • Confusion: A relatively weak telekinetic attack that lifts the target into the air and smashes them against their surroundings. Alternatively, Metagross can lift other objects and use them as projectiles. This attack can leave affected targets confused and disoriented, potentially hitting themselves with their own attacks in the process.
  • Hammer Arm: Metagross brings down one of its arms like a powerful hammer to deal heavy damage. However, this attack will lower Metagross' speed after completion.
  • Hyper Beam: Metagross fires off a powerful beam of energy that deals heavy damage. However, the strain of using this attack forces it to rest and recharge, leaving it vulnerable.
  • Iron Defense: Metagross hardens the surface of its body to greatly increase its resistance to close-range physical attacks.
  • Magnet Rise: Metagross manipulates magnetism to allow it and any other Steel-type Pokémon or similar beings to levitate off the ground, allowing them to easily dodge ground-based attacks.
  • Metal Claw: Metagross makes its claws as hard as steel before raking them across its foe. This ability can potentially raise its physical attack power.
  • Meteor Mash: Metacgross throws a hard punch with the force of a meteor, dealing heavy damage and potentially raising its attack power.
  • Miracle Eye: Metagross locks onto a target with its psychic abilities, allowing it to strike intangible foes and see through evasive techniques.
  • Psychic: A powerful telekinetic attack that can throw an opponent into various obstacles and hazards or fling other objects as projectiles. This attack can potentially lower the target's resistance to further ranged assaults.
  • Pursuit: Metagross attacks its target, dealing double the normal amount of damage if its foe is fleeing or retreating.
  • Scary Face: Metagross makes a frightening expression to freeze an opponent in their tracks, lowering their effective speed.
  • Take Down: Metagross throws its full body weight behind a reckless tackle into its foe, dealing damage to the target as well as significant recoil damage to Metagross itself.
  • Zen Headbutt: Metagross focuses its willpower and psychic energy into its head before ramming it into its foe, potentially interrupting the activation of the opponent's next attack.
These are doing nothing.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
  • Confusion: A relatively weak telekinetic attack that lifts the target into the air and smashes them against their surroundings. Alternatively, Metagross can lift other objects and use them as projectiles. This attack can leave affected targets confused and disoriented, potentially hitting themselves with their own attacks in the process.
  • Psychic: A powerful telekinetic attack that can throw an opponent into various obstacles and hazards or fling other objects as projectiles. This attack can potentially lower the target's resistance to further ranged assaults.
Click to expand...
Yeah these attacks aren't working on Sanji, also confusion only has a 10% chance of confusing (mind manip) the target and even then the mind manipulation isn't that great.
 
No answers?
monke-tea.gif

People that uses weird ways to debate, will never be protected by THE Monkey.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Confusion: A relatively weak telekinetic attack that lifts the target into the air and smashes them against their surroundings. Alternatively, Metagross can lift other objects and use them as projectiles. This attack can leave affected targets confused and disoriented, potentially hitting themselves with their own attacks in the process.
Click to expand...
I see. Nothing suggests this ability to be instantaneously or to have an instantaneous effect on Sanji. Especially the fact that this ability seems to be dodgeable so why were people telling me that confusion cannot be dodged despite the description say otherwise? I mean, what's seriously stopping Sanji from dodging this, or in fact why are we under the assumption that the possibility of Sanji getting confused will happen in this fight?
 
Another thing about confusion is it the attack actually has to land to potentially give the target confusion (mind manip) and Sanji's observation would allow him to dodge the projectile variant and his lifting would resist the grabbing version, so I personally don't see it being a factor at all.
 
RazumaHiroki said:
I see. Nothing suggests this ability to be instantaneously or to have an instantaneous effect on Sanji. Especially the fact that this ability seems to be dodgeable so why were people telling me that confusion cannot be dodged despite the description say otherwise? I mean, what's seriously stopping Sanji from dodging this, or in fact why are we under the assumption that the possibility of Sanji getting confused will happen in this fight?
Click to expand...
The confusion is by getting hit in the head via telekinesis with other objects weakest Mind Manipulation

Monkey Angry by humans.
 
Bernkastelll said:
Invisibility doesnt give resistance to mind hax
Click to expand...
Monkey is referring to Sanji simply turning invisible, since Meta cannot see invisible things according to his profile, therefore his projectiles will miss their target. In other words, he wasn't implying that invisibility grants you resistance to mind hax at all
 
RazumaHiroki said:
Monkey is referring to Sanji simply turning invisible, since Meta cannot see invisible things according to his profile, therefore his projectiles will miss their target. In other words, he wasn't implying that invisibility grants you resistance to mind hax at all
Click to expand...
Not really... even if its instantaneous his mind manipulation won't work on someone he doesn't know where the target is. It misses 99% of the time.

But yee kinda
 
i'mma just call for some supporters for now. I agree that if sanji turns invisible he could probably take metagross down but the damage boost is still there and saying that "these moves don't work" doesn't do the cut without proper explanation.

confusion...the only anime example i could find right now is this crappy moment from mystery dungeon where gengar uses confusion and it is the same as Psychic, just weaker.
here

and here is the visual from the game
here

basically confusion is psychic but worse.

Anyways my main thing is Metagross' inelligence which would give him an extreme advantage and the fact that Psychic isn't used to pin down opponents but throw them around whilst inflicting effects.

overall let me call some people way more knowledgeable than me so we can actually argue as i am not expert.
 
Intelligence alone isn't enough to give a vote, Meta might be smart but he isn't working with a lot. First of all his TK is a lot weaker than Sanji's LS so that's useless, and he can absolutely dodge or evade any attack Meta happens to throw out due to Future Sight amongst the plethora of enhanced Senses from Kenbun Haki.


More Pokémon wank lol.
 
People don't seem to realize that Sanji has future sight (actively), precognition (actively), enhanced senses, emotions sensing, danger sensing, can fly out of Meta's range, can turn himself invisible which further amps his speed & power. The only argument as to why Sanji would "lose" is confusion, who's not a reliable win cond and not flawless.
 
I refreshed the page twice and "anything above High 7-A is restricted" is still there, no? Why are you guys talking about invisibility that much?
 
XDragnoir said:
I refreshed the page twice and "anything above High 7-A is restricted" is still there, no? Why are you guys talking about invisibility that much?
Click to expand...
Well. you can take away his invisibility, but that doesn't affect his Diablo Jambe and Crazy Senses. (If i recall correctly, OP initially restricted RS, but then allowed it?)
 
RazumaHiroki said:
I see. Nothing suggests this ability to be instantaneously or to have an instantaneous effect on Sanji. Especially the fact that this ability seems to be dodgeable so why were people telling me that confusion cannot be dodged despite the description say otherwise? I mean, what's seriously stopping Sanji from dodging this, or in fact why are we under the assumption that the possibility of Sanji getting confused will happen in this fight?
Click to expand...
It works like Psychic in the anime so metagross spams until the guy beats himself to death.
 
Lou_change said:
It works like Psychic in the anime so metagross spams until the guy beats himself to death.
Click to expand...
Except this scenario isn't going to happen:

"Meta might be smart but he isn't working with a lot. First of all his TK is a lot weaker than Sanji's LS so that's useless, and he can absolutely dodge or evade any attack Meta happens to throw out due to Future Sight amongst the plethora of enhanced Senses from Kenbun Haki."

"People don't seem to realize that Sanji has future sight (actively), precognition (actively), enhanced senses, emotions sensing, danger sensing, can fly out of Meta's range, can turn himself invisible which further amps his speed & power. The only argument as to why Sanji would "lose" is confusion, who's not a reliable win cond and not flawless."
 
RazumaHiroki said:
Meta might be smart but he isn't working with a lot. First of all his TK is a lot weaker than Sanji's LS so that's useless, and he can absolutely dodge or evade any attack Meta happens to throw out due to Future Sight amongst the plethora of enhanced Senses from Kenbun Haki."
Click to expand...
Psychic and confusion on things with higher lifting strength.

And https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Miracle_Eye_(move) say screw invisibility and no you can't just dodge telekinesis.
 
LordGinSama said:
Yeah more Pokémon wank, no surprise there.


Show me Meta ever restraining someone with class G LS.
Click to expand...
Confusion can work on legendaries like any other pokemon move as in the attack works but doesn't actually harm them plus lifting strength isn't passive it has to be used to resist and quickly.
 
None of the legendary Pokémon have class G lifting straight and what? This is the dumbest argument I've heard all day, with Sanji's ls advantage he'd be able to break free from the move with the slightest of movement.
 
My mistake Mewtwo has z class.

Oh does he have g class because walking and who gave you the idea if he resist it with lifting strength it just disappears.
 
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