I suppose I should ask some other things that concern me:
1. Using SBA they would start at the opponent within the opponent who has less range's range meaning they start at tens of meters
Yes, but it's not specified that they're facing towards one another, right?
Didn't OP specify that they have prior knowledge? What would be the point of granting prior knowledge if it granted them no knowledge at all?
If it isn't, at what point did it begin?
Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart. If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
Did you vote though? I checked this thread to be on the safe side, Gin and dragonir haven't voted for anyone yet.
Alright. That make it 7 then
I suppose I should clarify why I asked this, since the discussion above doesn't seem to be concerned with the basis of my inquiry.
| The user frightens the target with a scary face to harshly lower its Speed stat. |
I have somewhat differing opinions about optimal tactics for Metagross, but I'm interested in answers to my other concerns with this match being addressed.
Yeah they start facing each other, and afaik prior knowledge would warn both sides that they are at the same speed
Thank you for input on this matter.
He doesn't need to see Metagross. Every participants of Kenbunshoku Haki are forced to wear blindfold while fighting against enemies in order to see their enemies through "Kenbunshoku Haki way". They can sense the presence of others through the "Aura" or "Sillhoute"
That argument doesn't apply to other characters/cases. Since Sanji is highly resistant to Fire Manipulation and Heat, not to mention his pain tolerance isn't something you should underestimate.
There's a cap for buffs & for debuffs?
So it would be in-character for Sanji to fight with his eyes closed &/or blindfolded during this match?He doesn't need to see Metagross. Every participants of Kenbunshoku Haki are forced to wear blindfold while fighting against enemies in order to see their enemies through "Kenbunshoku Haki way". They can sense the presence of others through the "Aura" or "Sillhoute"
You need 7.5 ap diference to one shot your opponent
He theoretically would do that as both have prior knowledge to each other abilities (All Haki users canonically fought against wild animals or enemies while wearing blindfold, so i genuinely don't see any problem with this scenario), furthermore Sanji out of the monster trio is more the strategically fighter than rushing into a fight without a plan or strategy except ladies are involved.
I'd say that it's questionable how like an animal Metagross is, being largely inorganic, but there's Aura & a bunch of other stuff that makes me feel like that's not a topic to handle in this thread.
Given what I said above just now in this post, I agree with what you have said here.
I appreciate your efforts to provide an estimation, although I do find myself wishing at least 1 of Sanji's profiles listed Range for his Haki abilities. Still, I don't know much about Sanji's Haki range feats & the like, so IDK how many KM away or within he can sense a given being.
Now I just wish I knew what @Lou_change meant by "buff cap" here.
I'd question that the electromagnetically-flying, supercomputer-comparable spider tank has a soul, but I also wouldn't be surprised if there was evidence of Pokemon having souls that is applicable to Metagross, plus, argument from incredulity is a known fallacy.
Kenbunshoku Haki isn't strictly limited to just "Humans". Rayleigh explicitly explained you could even sense invisible beings or "monsters", Meta is no exception of the rule.
It's not that difficult to understand. Think of it like a "level". Now imagine a person, more specifically "Inept Haki user B". Inept Haki user B is capable of sensing people within a small town through Kenbunshoku Haki. Although, inept Haki user B is still in training, the more he trains the more his Kenbunshoku Haki's range increases and precognition power. However, if Kenbunshoku Haki do have different ranges, but in my opinion there are only three characters, whose range is larger than anyone else presented in the show (Eneru via DF, Fujitora and Usopp).
Explosion manipulation is different also it is a normal type move.
Range difference and speed up fix that and the thing's intelligent feat is analytic prediction and it has prior knowledge.
Ap cap and speed debuffs.
I just assumed that using buffs to get past the 4.3 megaton limit was not allowed.
Is there precedent in One Piece for "monsters" being inorganic?
Yeah, I getcha'. Higher level of skill with Haki, exponentially higher effect. Was more just frustrated with the lack of quantification, especially on the profiles. "Exponentially better than unknown value" can be frustratingly vague, you know?
I'd argue its use does involve fire, as has been depicted in ways that seem fiery, in games & anime, but it is somewhat debatable that fire is involved, I guess.
OH.
How is that a normal type move if it involves explosion manipulation, it's in the end explosion manipulation. Also, you do know what explosions entail, yes? Heat and Fire, which Sanji resists. This move Itself isn't a factor nor a one shot because meta lacks the AP advantage for that.
Range only matters when both characters are prefers fighting range. Sanji primarily prefers close-combat and can instantly close the gap between them, to make matters worse Sanji has both active precognition and active future sight, so how exactly is Range and intelligence helping Meta when Sanji delivers powerful DJ kicks and closes the gap in an instant. Plus he knows what meta's intending to do beforehand, so please enlighten me how he exactly counters Danger sense, True Precognition and Future sight.
With what exactly? Have you already forgotten that Sanji can quickly finish the fight with either polele a frire and hell memories. He does meta withstand a barrage of 100 fire kicks in an instant? Or Hell memories that burned a Giant instantly. His unquantifiable AP buffs won't help his case.
Although it involves Heat & Fire, that does not change what type of Pokemon move it is.
I do not know the basis for Lou_Change's statements, but maybe he had some feat in mind involving Metagross using such a purpose? There's also the possibility of interpreting the entry as such explosions being very powerful.
By monsters, invisible beings and "Sillhoutes", Rayleigh refers to any being that's living on One piece, otherwise he would've told Luffy that there exist things he cannot sense. For example "invisible beings". But since they are capable of sensing even things that erased it's entire presence. How are inorganic beings an exception? I would be rather surprised if that were the case.
I don't know but https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Explosion_(move)
They are equal in speed unless he buffs to such a degree without metagross trying to make a counter. Precog is countered by metagross being able to fight Mega Alakazam.
Invisible does not necessarily mean doesn't exist or lacking a soul, nor does "erasing one's own presence", presuming that refers to concealing one's self very well.
I get the idea of how Observation Haki observes & delivers information, my concerns are with what makes something eligible to be observed by it. The image above told me plenty, & I have experience debating & seeing media involving precognitive characters. Having showings of detecting organic beings who are more likely to have souls & life force & such within One Piece's system doesn't necessarily mean Metagross meets those criteria.
Being equal in speed doesn't always necessarily mean it's impossible, especially the fact if the character is capable of doing this against characters comparable to him, so my argument still stands.
It's treated in this wiki as "explosion manipulation", therefore is no different than an average explosion manipulation. You are suggesting it to be different because the game or Pokemon wiki considers it as "normal move". However, if it's an explosion, it normally entails "Heat" and "Fire". So idk, what you were trying to imply? Besides, as I said before this isn't considered as a factor in this fight due to Sanji's resistances and advantages.
Where was this mentioned or depicted?
In the one piece world, invisibility has many meanings such as erasing one's presence, turning himself invisible and creatures beyond anyone's comprehension. Rayleigh conquered every island, every country and discovered the biggest mystery of the One piece's world. Rayleigh is Roger's right hand, automatically a reliable source. Why would Rayleigh lie or half-heartedly explaining things to Luffy? Rayleigh has faced countless of DF users & mysterious creatures, him telling that observation haki grants him to sense beings that don't have a soul or are invisible beings is accepted here. So going by the Wiki's rules, Sanji can indeed sense Meta, so honestly why is that a debate in the first place?
Every Advanced Kenbunshoku Haki can do that. Otherwise Sanji wouldn't be classified as "Advanced Kenbunshoku Haki user" in the first place, the proof you are asking is literally written on his profile picture and Haki page. Since it's confirmed by Oda that Sanji's Kenbunshoku Haki is comparable to cough Katakuri, pretty self-explanatory if you have watched whole cake arc or Luffy vs Katakuri.
Never but given near mindless megas or dumber megas in general can do it I think it is safe to say that the one that literally calculates the best means to succeed.
