High 3-A/Low 2-C question

[Yobo_Blue]

So, a small part of the Tiering System has been bugging me lately. Namely, how we treat Low 2-C feats.

So, characters like Giorno Giovanna are High 3-A for feats involving limited amounts of space time destruction, namely erasing 10 seconds of universal time, since a space-time continuum contains the entirety of the past, present and future. However, some characters, like Rick Sanchez, are Low 2-C for destroying the space-time of a universe. My personal problem is that to truly have destroyed a space-time continuum, rather than space-time, you would need to have destroyed the past, present, and future of said universe, meaning that universe essentially never existed, something that I don't thing most of the Low 2-C class qualifies for. This is also a problem with those who are Low 2-C via Creation, since that would imply they created it's past, present and future simultaneously and likely exist beyond time in some cases. Is this a misunderstanding of the system, or is there some other reason for this?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"something that I don't thing most of the Low 2-C class qualifies for"

They should, if they want to be Low 2-C. It's why, among other things, it took so long for DBS to reach Low 2-C.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Ver few creators can be said to have created a universes past, present and future simultaneously. Same with destruction feats. Most of the time space time is enough, like with Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (Mech), so I was asking why that is.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Creating/destroying time and space destroys past, present and future by proxy though.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The problem is that the Space-Time of an entire universe implies Past, Present and Future all at once. You can't separate both.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Not really, unless you cn say that universe never existed in the first place, and limited universe space time erasure is possible, as seen with those who can destroy portions of timelines

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Not really, unless you cn say that universe never existed in the first place, and limited universe space time erasure is possible, as seen with those who can destroy portions of timelines

That's a High 3-A feat.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

My point isn't that it's Low 2-c, it's that destroying a portion of space time doesn't necessarily affect the entire continuum.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, that is true. We don't treat it as such.

But creating/destroying an entire space-time continuum would obviously do so, by default.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

My gripe is just that in most verses there isn't really proof that destruction or creation of space time simaltaneously affects the past, etc, etc, especially when that would impy that it never existed, wmening most Tier 2's would hve acausality by default.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Like I just said, you can't have destruction of all of space-time without affecting all of time. Doesn't matter if "but there is no proof", it's assumed it happens anyway. It should only be an issue if this is contradicted somehow.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

The contrdiction is in verse with 3d beings with 4d power in DBS who come from and remember destroyed universes that technically never existed.

My point is mostly that they likely only affected a portion if that is the case.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Then you have a problem with that specific verse, not the entire system.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

DBS is certainly not the only verse with 3-D beings with 4d power, so it's alot quicker to address that overall, especially since by proxy it does affect most of the tier.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It can be argued to be PIS for a lot of those verses, or occasionally, Time Paradox Immunity. Fiction, in general, doesn't seem to always care about logic regarding that, even when it's explicit.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That's fair enouh. This can be closed then.

(Although it would actually be acausality)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It wouldn't. Acausality means totally outside of Cause and Effect. This is just surviving your past being messed up.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Did I miss the acausality change thread or something? Lst I checked, having your past destroyed is being acasual, and in no way is a paradox

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's just a name, because the usual "going back into the past to kill your grandfather" is a time paradox.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

That isn't really the point tho. Having your past destroyed and being unaffected is Acusality, as it's not just you, but every event you've ever interacted with being erased.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It doesn't mean you transcend causality as a whole, which is what's needed for Acausality.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Was that changed recently? Because last I checked you simply needed to be exempt from it.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Pretty the same though.

Being unaffected by your past being changed/erased does not mean you're exempt from all forms of causality. You can still punch (Cause) them to damage them (Effect).

 

[Yobo_Blue]

The a causality page literally says that's the only way to kill a acasual tho