High 1-B Upgrade for Mephisto and Hell Lords within their own realms

[Eseseso]

Since Ultima's Part 3 revisions are probably never going to be finished, or at least not in the next year, I figured I might as well make a CRT to upgrade Mephisto and the other Hell Lords.

(Credit to E2B for many of these scans.)

Mephisto's realm infinitely transcends the Universe (Doctor Strange & Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment)

In Thunderbolts Annual 2000, all Hell-Realms are stated to be pan-dimensional, meaning connected to all dimensions. Keep in mind that the Marvel universe is accepted to be infinite-dimensional in nature, like how Cosmic Cubes are High 1-B due to being Omni-Dimensional and existing in all infinite dimensions within the Marvel universe.

For support to scaling to his realm, we have this from Silver Surfer/Warlock: Resurrection #4. Mephisto fights a king-sized Adam Warlock using the power of Hades, because it is Mephisto's spirit (meaning Hell is just part of Mephisto), with it being stated in the second panel that they were destroying Hell.

The Galactus that Mephisto fought in Silver Surfer: Judgement Day was also capable of devouring Mephisto's realm, not to mention that Galactus is High 1-B himself.

In Warlock Chronicles #3, it's stated Mephisto in his realm has the power of a Cosmic Cube, which is already accepted as High 1-B.

It's stated in Thunderstrike #15 that a war between Mephisto and Hela would cause Omniversal Armageddon and make Ragnarok pale in comparison. While this is technically a feat for their armies as well, in Daredevil #279, Mephisto challenged every soul in his realm to fight him together, yet none dared to, so he should scale to any creature he controls.

Also, in Marvel Two-In-One Annual Vol. 1 #5, Pluto could also fight on par with The Stranger while in the underworld, with The Stranger being High 1-B.

The Hell Lords even once merged their seven realms (from Thor Annual Vol. 1 #10), so that's further support that they scale in power to their own realms while within them. Also, Mephisto can control his entire realm of Hell, saying "My realm is me".

Now, this High 1-B scales to Mephisto and all the Hell Lords (Daimon Hellstrom, Satannish, Pluto, and Hela) in their respective Hell-Realms.

As for the Base Keys, they should be changed to "At least 3-C, up to High 1-B", as it is already accepted that Mephisto's clash with Satannish threatened to destroy the main universe, Mephisto's realm, and the dimension they were fighting in (from Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #30)

EDIT: Also, all Hell Lords get Higher-Dimensional Existence.

Edit 2: As @ByAsura noted, Mephisto is also implied to rival the Vishanti, at least while he is in Hell.

 

[SYPHe5D]

Looks good to me.(you cooked)

 

[Eseseso]

Looks good to me.(you cooked)

I can't take the credit here, a homie of mine on Discord helped me greatly in gathering all these scans.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

You and your friend did a good job!

I agree

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

I agree with the thread.

It's stated in Thunderstrike #15 that a war between Mephisto and Hela would cause Omniversal Armageddon and make Ragnarok pale in comparison. While this is technically a feat for their armies as well, in Daredevil #279, Mephisto challenged every soul in his realm to fight him together, yet none dared to, so he should scale to any creature he controls.

To give a bit of an idea where Ragnarok should scale, Odin knows he can't fully stop it (Thor #278). Considering this is a general statement about Odin's capability, this would include his High 1-B peak. So, as long as Mephisto downscales from this feat by a finite amount, it would still be High 1-B. This is also consistent with Mephisto considering Odin an equal (Thor #181). This isn't just ego and him wanting to hype himself up to Odin's level either, considering when Odin nullified his contract, he could tell the power was that of an equal's, despite not knowing who did it (Thunderstrike #15). Of course, Mephisto fought a Galactus at similar levels to the one who fought Odin, so this is generally really consistent imo.

Now, this High 1-B scales to Mephisto and all the Hell Lords (Daimon Hellstrom, Satannish, Pluto, and Hela) in their respective Hell-Realms, albeit it does not affect their base keys,

I do have a slight disagreement here, though. Mephisto's out of realm self is scaled based on his ability to destroy his realm, his entrance realm, and Satannish's realm. However, it's important to remember Mephisto varies depending on since he last left his realm (last paragraph). In this case, he had just left his realm, so this should be his out of realm peak. For Satannish, I believe it was a similar case, so their peaks should be upgraded.

I'm also not fully sure if I think the other Hell Lords should scale to Mephisto, but I'm not necessarily opposed to it either.

 

[Tomfer]

I agree with the OP

so their peaks should be upgraded.

I also agree with this.

 

[Confluctor]

I agree. Maybe it's a good idea to add "In their realm" key to all hell lords as they do have a few extra things in there.

 

[Eseseso]

I agree with the thread.

To give a bit of an idea where Ragnarok should scale, Odin knows he can't fully stop it (Thor #278). Considering this is a general statement about Odin's capability, this would include his High 1-B peak. So, as long as Mephisto downscales from this feat by a finite amount, it would still be High 1-B. This is also consistent with Mephisto considering Odin an equal (Thor #181). This isn't just ego and him wanting to hype himself up to Odin's level either, considering when Odin nullified his contract, he could tell the power was that of an equal's, despite not knowing who did it (Thunderstrike #15). Of course, Mephisto fought a Galactus at similar levels to the one who fought Odin, so this is generally really consistent imo.

I do have a slight disagreement here, though. Mephisto's out of realm self is scaled based on his ability to destroy his realm, his entrance realm, and Satannish's realm. However, it's important to remember Mephisto varies depending on since he last left his realm (last paragraph). In this case, he had just left his realm, so this should be his out of realm peak. For Satannish, I believe it was a similar case, so their peaks should be upgraded.

So, out of realm they would be "3-C, up to High 1-B"?

I'm also not fully sure if I think the other Hell Lords should scale to Mephisto, but I'm not necessarily opposed to it either.

The "pan dimensional" scan says that all Hell Realms are pan-dimensional, which in this case means infinite-dimensional due to Marvel's universe being infinite dimensional.

 

[Eseseso]

I agree. Maybe it's a good idea to add "In their realm" key to all hell lords as they do have a few extra things in there.

Funnily enough, I am already adding Hell-Lord specific P&A to my Marvel Magic revisions (BFR, resistance to Law Manip, etc.).

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

So, out of realm they would be "3-C, up to High 1-B"?

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

The "pan dimensional" scan says that all Hell Realms are pan-dimensional, which in this case means infinite-dimensional due to Marvel's universe being infinite dimensional.

I forgot that being native to an H1B realm automatically makes them H1B, so on second thought I do agree. They also contributed to the Hell-merging thing now that I think about it, so that upgrades that already accepted feat too.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Neat, another thing to add is that in volume 1 issue 5 of the Marvel Two-In-One Annual Pluto could also fight on par with The Stranger while in the underworld.

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Neat, another thing to add is that in volume 1 issue 5 of the Marvel Two-In-One Annual Pluto could also fight on par with The Stranger while in the underworld.

Added

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with the revisions.

 

[Excellence616]

Nice work you and your friend.

I definitely agree

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Sure. I definitely forgot about my thread on the matter after I got too busy, so you can do it.

 

[Excellence616]

Sure. I definitely forgot about my thread on the matter after I got too busy, so you can do it.

Tag staffs please

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@Antvasima

 

[Eseseso]

Small addition: All Hell-Lords get Higher-Dimensional Existence since the scans also indicate that they should be comparable in dimensionality to their realms.

 

[Eseseso]

@Antvasima

What are your own thoughts on this, Lawyer?

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

What are your own thoughts on this, Lawyer?

Fine, I guess. I have no time to read in-depth.

 

[Eseseso]

Le bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepmeThree @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @Catzlaflame @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @Eseseso @LuciferX @Excel616 @Immortalgodd @LephyrTheRevanchist @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @Quantu @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein @Lonkitt @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0

What do you all think about this?

 

[ByAsura]

The thread is mostly convincing enough. IIRC, there's also some implied Vishanti scaling in the earlier issues (like 4-8) of Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme vol 1.

Edit: Issue 7.

Although I think this just refers to the ability to grant wishes rather than the might of said wishes, especially given how many anti-feats Hell-amped Mephisto has against beings who aren't even on par with Cubes.

 

[LordTracer]

OP looks good to me.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Looks good

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you all think about this?

It looks fine but I'm also not really knowledgeable on Marvel's currently accepted cosmology anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

 

[Eseseso]

Thank you to everybody who are helping out here.

Since this is accepted by 4 voting staff already, can I put it in or should I still wait for Grace?

Also, I will probably need to get some pages unlocked for these revisions so I'll check to see which ones.

 

[Quantu]

Agree FRA.

 

[Isaiah_ZaMangaka]

Same here, count me in as agree

 

[Antvasima]

Since this is accepted by 4 voting staff already, can I put it in or should I still wait for Grace?

That seems fine to me, but I am busy, so it is better if others unlock pages for you.

 

[Eseseso]

That seems fine to me, but I am busy, so it is better if others unlock pages for you.

Will do.

Thank you for your help!

 

[Excellence616]

Will Ghost Rider be upgraded as well since he has some scaling to Mephisto?

 

[Eseseso]

I agree with the revisions.

It looks fine but I'm also not really knowledgeable on Marvel's currently accepted cosmology anymore.

If either of you are willing, these pages need to be unlocked:

Mephisto (Marvel Comics)

Mephisto is an extra-dimensional demon of unknown origins and the ruler of the fiery dimension called "Hell" He is known for his attempts to exploit human beings' beliefs and causing the suffering of many creatures. Tier: Varies. At least 3-C, up to High 1-B, High 1-B in Hell | Low 1-A Key...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ghost Rider (Marvel Comics)

Ghost Rider is the name of several fictional supernatural antiheroes appearing in comic books published by Marvel Comics. This profile deals with the Johnny Blaze iteration of the character The first supernatural Ghost Rider, stunt motorcyclist Johnny Blaze, to save the life of his father...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Eseseso]

Will Ghost Rider be upgraded as well since he has some scaling to Mephisto?

His Zarathos key will be High 1-B, yes.

 

[ByAsura]

I can unlock the profiles. Please tell me when you're ready.

 

[Eseseso]

I can unlock the profiles. Please tell me when you're ready.

I'm about to go to sleep but I will do the edits tomorrow morning (aka in about 8-9 hours).

 

[Eseseso]

But all Hell Lords besides Mephisto have been made High 1-B

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

But all Hell Lords besides Mephisto have been made High 1-B

Blackheart (Marvel Comics)

Blackheart is a powerful demon, and Mephisto's son, born from the energy of accumulated evils. He is a frequent enemy of the Ghost Rider. Tier: 3-C | At least 3-C, possibly High 1-B Key: Regular Self | Ruler of Hell Name: Blackheart, Black King, Son of Mephisto, Prince of Hell Origin: Marvel...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ghost Rider (Marvel Comics)

Ghost Rider is the name of several fictional supernatural antiheroes appearing in comic books published by Marvel Comics. This profile deals with the Johnny Blaze iteration of the character The first supernatural Ghost Rider, stunt motorcyclist Johnny Blaze, to save the life of his father...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mephisto (Marvel Comics)

Mephisto is an extra-dimensional demon of unknown origins and the ruler of the fiery dimension called "Hell" He is known for his attempts to exploit human beings' beliefs and causing the suffering of many creatures. Tier: Varies. At least 3-C, up to High 1-B, High 1-B in Hell | Low 1-A Key...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Seth (Marvel Comics)

Seth, also commonly referred to as Set, is a primordial god and villain from Marvel Comics, first appearing in Thor #240. He is a member of the Ennead, the Heliopolitan race of gods that were worshipped by the people of Ancient Egypt. He is the God of Death and rules over Duat, the dimension of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Eseseso]

Blackheart (Marvel Comics)

Blackheart is a powerful demon, and Mephisto's son, born from the energy of accumulated evils. He is a frequent enemy of the Ghost Rider. Tier: 3-C | At least 3-C, possibly High 1-B Key: Regular Self | Ruler of Hell Name: Blackheart, Black King, Son of Mephisto, Prince of Hell Origin: Marvel...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ghost Rider (Marvel Comics)

Ghost Rider is the name of several fictional supernatural antiheroes appearing in comic books published by Marvel Comics. This profile deals with the Johnny Blaze iteration of the character The first supernatural Ghost Rider, stunt motorcyclist Johnny Blaze, to save the life of his father...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mephisto (Marvel Comics)

Mephisto is an extra-dimensional demon of unknown origins and the ruler of the fiery dimension called "Hell" He is known for his attempts to exploit human beings' beliefs and causing the suffering of many creatures. Tier: Varies. At least 3-C, up to High 1-B, High 1-B in Hell | Low 1-A Key...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Seth (Marvel Comics)

Seth, also commonly referred to as Set, is a primordial god and villain from Marvel Comics, first appearing in Thor #240. He is a member of the Ennead, the Heliopolitan race of gods that were worshipped by the people of Ancient Egypt. He is the God of Death and rules over Duat, the dimension of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Forgot about Blackheart and Seth, thank you.

Tbh Seth should already be High 1-B for his feat against Odin

I can unlock the profiles. Please tell me when you're ready.

Ready!

Also, could you please unlock this page:

Seth (Marvel Comics)

Seth, also commonly referred to as Set, is a primordial god and villain from Marvel Comics, first appearing in Thor #240. He is a member of the Ennead, the Heliopolitan race of gods that were worshipped by the people of Ancient Egypt. He is the God of Death and rules over Duat, the dimension of...

vsbattles.fandom.com