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High 1-B Chaos Gods

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ZacharyGrossman273

ZacharyGrossman273

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Okay... This took a LOT of digging, but I've found scans that PROVE that the chaos gods are infinite dimensional.

"This was the very essence of the Primordial Creator, the wellspring from which all things came. Nothing was impossible here, for this was the foundry of creation, the origin of all things, past, present and future." Pg.177 A Thousand Sons

Chaos gods are one with a realm that created everything


https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142728/4557468-000.jpg


"When freed from the righteous restraints imposed by the Imperium, populations will develop psykers more frequently, releasing a growing vortex of psychic energy that tears at the fabric of the multiverse. "
--Warhammer 40k 7th Edition Rulebook

"The forms the live-things called Chaos, in their limited little ways of perceiving the omni-verse, swarmed and thrived in this infinite ocean of mind and emotion. The daemon moved with Stele. Waiting, waiting and watching for the moment when the thrashing and chattering of the quarry was at its peak. Only then would it strike, lapping up the absolute perfection of its fear, sinking in rending teeth, tearing it to soul- shreds."
Pg.106 Deus Sanguinius


These scane PROVE chaos gods can affect whole warhammer 40,000 multiverse


"'The central conceit is that our visible, four-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane, that is, a membrane, inside a higher dimensional space,' he begins, and already I feel any hope of comprehension fall away. 'A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities, intersecting with our own in ways we cannot possibly imagine in any currently posited cosmological model.'" - Knights of the Imperium


40,000 multiverse is infinite dimensional


So I propose rating of "At least 1-C, Likely Low 1-B, possible High 1-B" For all warp entities.
 
Except that in this context, "infinite number of dimensions" refers to universes.

"which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities"

How did you miss this line right after your quote.
 
"'The central conceit is that our visible, four-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane, that is, a membrane, inside a higher dimensional space,' he begins, and already I feel any hope of comprehension fall away. 'A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities, intersecting with our own in ways we cannot possibly imagine in any currently posited cosmological model.'" - Knights of the Imperium

It VERY clearly states our universe is just part of a higher dimensional space, and says "infinite number of dimensions OF infinite scale" (Not an amount infinite in scale, the dimensions themselves are infinite in scale)
 
IIRC, i was told by Azathoth a while back that he's still working on finding evidence for anything higher than Low 1-B Warhammer. DK what's the status of that though so i can't say much beyond that from what i can remember of his words.
 
There are two possible infinite-dimensional Chaos God quotes that I know of. Both are unfortunately extremely vague. I would personally prefer to grab the most solid and straightforward quotes I can before any potential upgeade. Looking through forums and such, there is apparently some piece of old Chaos lore where Tzeentch creates a pocket realm with nine hundred and ninety nine dimensions which contains forbidden knowldege guarded by an entity who asks nine hundred ninety nine seemingly impossible riddles, but this is so old and minor I don't even know if I can find it or verify it exists.

Perhaps looking through some of the RPG books focused on Chaos could be useful.
 
I agree with Azathoth on that bit. Perhaps something that's more solid and direct and....straightforward (right?) would work better than something that's vague and old.....if that makes sense?
 
Welp, this isn't High 1-B Chaos Gods, but it's an upgrade, and one stemming from the C'tan, surprisingly. Even more surprisingly, said C'tan feat is from a campaign following a group of heretics tying to send a planet into the Warp. While fighting some Necrons, the heretics resort to freeing a captive C'tan shard to screw over their pursuers.

"The C'tan can be reactivated with the assistance of the master program, which it refuses to give. The devices cannot be destroyed with conventional explosives, as the Heretics soon realise that the crystalline obelisks and the central pillar do not fully exist in a physical sense. In fact, they are physical manifestations of the hibernation tesseract and exist in 20 dimensions at once." - Black Crusade: Hand of Corruption, pg 106

The entire section makes a big deal about how the Necrons use higher dimensional technology, so this is almost certainly referring to spatial dimensions. The 20-dimensional tech is not of the C'tan's own power, but merely the hyperdimensional tech of the Necrons used to contain a single C'tan shard. The full C'tan are unfathomably more powerful. Oh, and the 20-d hibernation tesseract is just the physical manifestation of the true thing.
 
I am fine with an upgrade to 1-B based on this,
 
@Cross

To be fair, this isn't the Gods themselves, nor is it even the C'tan. It's just the Necron tech used to restrain a single C'tan shard. It's made quite clear that this is basically "kids playing pretend in a sandbox" levels of insignificant to the Chaos Gods themselves, so it's not like any potentially higher feats they may have would be outliers or anything.

@Ant

If you think straight up 1-B is appropriate, I have no qualms with that, and can make the argument for it as opposed to a variable tier.
 
I am fine with a straight 1-B rating based on this, yes.
 
@Cross

Yeah. Though this is yet another in a long series of "HowTheActualHellDoTheNecronsEverLoseInTheFirstPlaceISwearToGod.jpg".

@Ant

Alright. As stated, this is Necron tech, so it obviously scales to the C'tan. Other things it scales to include the Chaos Gods (obviously), the Eldar Gods, the God Emperor's Warp presence, and any daemons shown to exist on the same level as the Chaos Gods (Skarbrand, Fateweaver, the Changeling, etc.).
 
@Azzy: That sounds like a series i'd read about. ^^

But yeah, i'm fine with a straight 1-B tier for whatever this scales to (which is what you pointed to here above, of course).
 
@Ant

Though I would like to know what Matt and Prom think, as well, since they are both also well versed in 40k background (though I feel as though this is a pretty clear-cut and safe change).
 
Well, feel free to inform them about this thread on their message walls.
 
I'm here, and I have no problem with upgrading them to 1-B based on this.
 
I'm here, and I have a question:

Wouldn't regular Necrons having 1-B Tech be an outlier? Specially if this is just to contain a C'tan Shard?
 
@Matt

It would be, if every piece of Necron lore in the past decade or so didn't make a big deal out of how the Necrons use hyperdimensional tech and could actually shatter the C'tan. This is just one of the few times we're given an actual number. For instance, Crypteks appear capable of using magic from the perspective of lesser races, but are really just using higher-dimensional science to achieve results as opposed to using the Warp.

Also, remember that the hibernation vault being 20-dimensional isn't because the Necrons need it to be that high to contain one shard. It's because they want there to be a 0% chance of the shard escaping on its own, because they might not be able to put it back.

Edit: Here are just a few of the many examples of Necrons using both pocket realities and higher-dimensional tech.

"Deathmarks have the terrifying ability to slip beyond realspace to pursue their quarry, ambushing from pocket dimensions detatched from the material universe. From these timeless places, they dispassionately analyse the flow of battle, awaiting the perfect moment to flicker into reality and strike."

"Instead, they slip sideways out of reality and monitor the conflict from a hyperspace oubliette ― a pocket dimension riding the gap between the then and now. The Deathmarks track enemy communication channels, teleport beams and orbital descents in order to select suitably high-profile prey. This done, they exit their oubliette to tag their quarry with the hunter's mark from which they take their name ― an eerie green energy halo that plays about the target's head in five dimensions."

"The energy blade of a hyperphase sword vibrates across dimensional states, and can easily slice through armour and flesh to sever the vital organs within."

"Crypteks bend the forces of the universe to their will, creating impossible technologies and esoteric weaponry to lay waste to armies and destroy worlds. Time, matter and space are their playthings, as they manipulate the atomic structure of their foes or shift the laws of nature to obliterate all who stand before them."

"Utilising the Necrons' mastery of hyper-geometry and phase technology, Tesseract Labyrinths briefly open a portal to a pocket dimension through which nearby creatures are pulled. As a Full Action, a Tesseract Labyrinth can be used again a target within 2m, who must pass a Hard (―20) Dodge or Strength Test or be pulled into an extra-dimensional prison. To ensure stability for all dimensions involved, a Tesseract Labyrinth requires 10 rounds to recharge between uses."

"For the Imperium, the Disciples of Chaos, and even the Eldar, teleportation means short ranged travel through the warp. This method would be unthinkable for the Necrons. However, their mastery of dimensional physics, artificial wormholes, and hyper-geometry have given rise to such devices as the Veil of Darkness."

"They (Crypteks) are masters of dimensional dissonance, singularity manipulation, atomic transmutation, elemental transmogrification and countless other reason-defying technologies."
 
Well, everything seems to be in order for the upgrades then.
 
Yeah what Ant said. I think you're good enough to go on this one, Azzy.

Also sent a mashup song on your wall in case you missed it. Just to tell ya. ^^
 
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