Marvel Comics Herald Tiers Upgrade to 3-C

[Kulf_Boba]

Thor shakes the universe tremble with a thermo-blast​

In his fight against Ego Thor uses a Thermal Blast to defeat him, the attack was capable of shaking the universe in Thor's own words. A 4-A feat. | Thor Vol.1 #133 | 1966 | Stan Lee
For some this feat may only scale to Thermal Blast, however the energy that shakes the universe is only a small fraction of the original attack that dissipates, as in Gorr's fight against Thor.
For Thermal Blast to shake the universe there has to be some sort of shockwave and since Thor was near the epicenter he can scale to this feat as his body had to have taken some of the energy.

Thor survive the destruction of the black galaxy​

Stellaris put his suit to the maximum level and lashed out at a Celestial that was brewing, upon impact there was a huge explosion so powerful that it was able to wipe out all the "organic matter" in the Black Galaxy, Thor managed to resist this explosion several meters from the epicenter, I have already calculated this feat and gave a 4-A result. | Mighty Thor Vol.1 #424 | 1990 | Tom DeFalco
And if that wasn't enough, Thor was also able to break a container that resisted the explosion much better because it was closer to the epicenter.

Thor creates a universal storm​

Thor creates in Asgard a storm so powerful that its winds reach the Earth creating a great destruction, located a universe away. | Thor Vol.1 #188
Asgard can be reached by space travel or regular flights, which confirms that it is connected to the 616 universe in a spatial way so the calculation I have made here is valid.

Thor (Jane Foster) shakes worlds half a universe away​

Thor (Jane Foster) uses the power of Mother Storm to casually neutralize a Supernova, and in doing so summons a lightning bolt capable of crossing from one galaxy to another and shaking planets half a universe away. In keeping with Thor's lightning bolts that are capable of shaking planets light years away and shaking stars. | The Mighty Thor Vol.3 #17 | 2017 | Jason Aaron


Note: Jane Foster shaking planets half a universe away scales to the normal power of Mjolnir and these characters: Malekith, Gorr, Mangog, Shi'ar Gods, Gladiator, Phoenix Force, Thanos. Since the Storm God/Mother of Storms is the power of Mjolnir. By definition, every time Thor uses Mjolnir, he is using the Storm God.

Silver Surfer​

• When Dr. Doom stole Silver Surfer's powers, he mentioned that this cosmic energy used in its entirety could destroy a galaxy | Fantastic Four Vol.1 #59 | 1966 | Stan Lee, Jack Kirby
• Silver Surfer crossed unharmed through the heart of exploding galaxies and other cosmic conflagration | Silver Surfer Annual #8 | 1997 | J.M. DeMatteis, Tom DeFalco
• Being furious, he was able to create a black hole encompassing a large part of the Andromeda galaxy using his cosmic energy discharges | Annihilation: Silver Surfer #1 | 2006 | Keith Giffen

Others​

• Annihilus withstood an explosion that wiped out 3 solar systems | Annihilation Vol.1 #6 | 2007 | Keith Giffen
• Nova withstood an explosion that wiped out 3 solar systems | Annihilation Vol.1 #6 | 2007 | Keith Giffen
• Hercules has enough power to shake the universe | Thor Vol.1 #130 | 1966 | Stan Lee, Jack Kirby
• In the epic battle between Beta Ray Bill and Stardust, they shook the firmament of the Universe | Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #3 | 2005 | Michael Avon Oeming, Daniel Berman

Other Statements and Feats​

I'm not saying that these are 100% legitimate claims at the 4-A level, but it serves as a backup.

• Fallen One is considered a galactic threat by the Nova Corps and draws its power from the dark matter that holds galaxies together | Annihilation: The Nova Corps Files | 2006
• Suzanne Selby mentions that she will set fire to the entire Shi'ar galaxy | Avengers Vol.8 #29 | 2020 | Jason Aaron
• Miss America Chavez crossed unharmed energies that were going to destroy the galaxy | Avengers Vol.6 #0 | 2015 | Al Ewing
• Drax mentions that he possesses a force spawned in the galaxy | Captain Marvel Vol.1 #31 | 1973 | Jim Starlin
• Thor declares that he is capable of toppling planets, crumbling a galaxy and "ravage the cosmos" | Thor Vol.1 #166 | 1969 | Stan Lee, Jack Kirby
• Thor it is mentioned that "all the power of the universe" flows within him when Donald Blake transforms into Thor | Thor Vol.1 #502 | 1996 | William Messner-Loebs
• Thor it makes the very fabric of infinity begin to tremble (Infinity can also be used as a synonym for Universe) | Mighty Thor Vol.1 #432 | 1991 | Tom DeFalco, Ron Frenz
• It was mentioned that Mrrungo-Mu at his full power level had been able to wipe out galaxies easily | Silver Surfer: The Enslavers | 1990 | Stan Lee, Keith Pollard
• The Uni-Lord at maximum power was capable of devouring entire galaxies with ease | Silver Surfer Vol.3 #118 | 1996 | George Perez

Values​

These are the values to which the characters are scaled.
Thor

• Survive the destruction of the black galaxy: 1.5500414e+59 Joules | 1.5 PetaFoe
• Creates universal storm: 6.539079e+63 Joules | 65 ExaFoe

Thor (Jane Foster)

• Jane Foster shakes worlds half a universe away: 2.4585067e+63 Joules | 24 ExaFoe

Beta Ray Bill, Stardust, Thor, Hercules
Shaking the universe.

• Magnitude 4: 8.5083767E+61 Joules |
• Magnitude 5: 2.690585E+63 Joules | 26.9 ExaFoe

 

[Confluctor]

Holy shit man, you actually did it?!

 

[Armorchompy]

I have no opinions on the change itself, couple of things tho.

In Thor Vol.1 #424 Stellaris put his suit to the maximum level and lashed out at a Celestial that was brewing, upon impact there was a huge explosion so powerful that it was able to wipe out all the "organic matter" in the Black Galaxy, Thor managed to resist this explosion several meters from the epicenter, I have already calculated this feat and gave a 4-A result.

Considering it only deleted organic matter and clearly left planets behind and stuff, that seems like hax. Even if it wasn't hax you definitely should not use baseline 3-C for a blast that explicitly did not destroy a galaxy.

Thor creates in Asgard a storm so powerful that its winds reach the Earth creating a great destruction, located a universe away.

Was everything in the middle destroyed? Cuz that would wipe out... basically everything between Asgard and Earth. Normally I'd be fine with ignoring this but considering that the statement of Asgard being in the universe was done in a different run, I would be a little wary of this one.

Since the Storm God/Mother of Storms is the power of Mjolnir. By definition, every time Thor uses Mjolnir, he is using the Storm God.

Using the power of =/= using all of the power.

When Dr. Doom stole Silver Surfer's powers, he mentioned that this cosmic energy used in its entirety could destroy a galaxy

This is a 3-C feat, not a 4-A one.

Silver Surfer crossed unharmed through the heart of exploding galaxies and other cosmic conflagration

This is also a 3-C feat if taken literally.

Being furious, he was able to create a black hole encompassing a large part of the Andromeda galaxy using his cosmic energy discharges

Probably also way higher than 4-A though I'm not sure.

Annihilus withstood an explosion that wiped out 3 solar systems

Wasn't he amped here? I recall Tllm saying that.

Nova withstood an explosion that wiped out 3 solar systems

That is only 4-B.

 

[Confluctor]

Wasn't he amped here? I recall Tllm saying that.

Yes, with the Quasar bands. Quasar bands are accepted as 4-B rn tho

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean no offense here but you're making a better case for 3-C than 4-A

 

[Confluctor]

3-C heralds? even better

 

[Teezar]

I agree with some of what the OP proposed.

 

[Tipper17]

Forget 4-A go for Galaxy Level Heralds
At least at least here peaks

 

[Confluctor]

I should probably look for and add some Sentry statements. Tho they vary all the way to low 2c if not low 1a

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not sure; I have heard of plans to revise Marvel heralds and FanofRPGs admitted he's not as knowledgeable on Marvel as he is with DC. And also acknowledged that a lot of the cosmic feats among Marvel heralds actually are of physical demonstrations as opposed to chain reactions.

But I'm mostly going to stay neutral and wait to see how things play out before I weigh in better.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Considering it only deleted organic matter and clearly left planets behind and stuff, that seems like hax. Even if it wasn't hax you definitely should not use baseline 3-C for a blast that explicitly did not destroy a galaxy.

What planets? There was only one planet left that is made of inorganic matter, plus this is definitely an explosion since it is mentioned that there was debris left after the explosion, which was absorbed when the Celestials manipulated the explosion.

Was everything in the middle destroyed? Cuz that would wipe out... basically everything between Asgard and Earth. Normally I'd be fine with ignoring this but considering that the statement of Asgard being in the universe was done in a different run, I would be a little wary of this one.

No, there were only Earth-like effects, similar feats were already accepted anyway, even if the realistic effects are not given.
The statement that Asgard is a universe away was said by the same writer and also repeated more times.

Using the power of =/= using all of the power.

The power that with a casual feat was able to shake planets in the middle of the universe, why wouldn't Thor use this power when it is at its maximum?

This is a 3-C feat, not a 4-A one.

Not necessarily, it can be 4-B to 3-C. But in this case it supports 4-A more.

This is also a 3-C feat if taken literally.

We don't know the exact magnitude of these explosions and we also don't know how close it was to the epicenter.

Wasn't he amped here? I recall Tllm saying that.

I don't know.

That is only 4-B.

But there is an end that gives a 4-A result.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

I'm not sure; I have heard of plans to revise Marvel heralds and FanofRPGs admitted he's not as knowledgeable on Marvel as he is with DC. And also acknowledged that a lot of the cosmic feats among Marvel heralds actually are of physical demonstrations as opposed to chain reactions.

But I'm mostly going to stay neutral and wait to see how things play out before I weigh in better.

I mean, you have calculations, feats and statements that back it up even more than 4-B.

You have like 4 feats of characters shaking the universe these are definitely 4-A.

And given what has already been shown, even Thor's star-shaking feat could be shaking the universe.

 

[Armorchompy]

What planets? There was only one planet left that is made of inorganic matter, plus this is definitely an explosion since it is mentioned that there was debris left after the explosion, which was absorbed when the Celestials manipulated the explosion.

The one they were standing on?

No, there were only Earth-like effects, similar feats were already accepted anyway, even if the realistic effects are not given.

Non-argument.

The power that with a casual feat was able to shake planets in the middle of the universe, why wouldn't Thor use this power when it is at its maximum?

Because maybe he can't? You'd need to prove that, idk the mechanics here.

Not necessarily, it can be 4-B to 3-C. But in this case it supports 4-A more.

No? Galaxy statements are to be interpreted as Galaxy level unless evidence implies the opposite.

We don't know the exact magnitude of these explosions and we also don't know how close it was to the epicenter.

So, unusable, could very well be 4-B or below.

But there is an end that gives a 4-A result.

... That Nova did not perform.

 

[Saksham_Gopal]

I think this is not good considering the values were calculated by taking a standard universe for size but we know that the Marvel universe has trillion light year statement in Jason Aaron run so final numbers will be greater

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh, I did not know that. Honestly I'm shocked there are no infinite statements for it.

 

[Saksham_Gopal]

Oh, I did not know that. Honestly I'm shocked there are no infinite statements for it.

Jason Aaron made it trillion light-years recently but if Kulf took that statement in calculation then I think it is ok

 

[Confluctor]

oh there are tons of infinite statements.

 

[Armorchompy]

why are they not used

 

[Confluctor]

cause infinite is a bitch.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

The one they were standing on?

On the inorganic planet.

Because maybe he can't? You'd need to prove that, idk the mechanics here.

The power that Mjolnir has comes directly from Mother Storm.

No? Galaxy statements are to be interpreted as Galaxy level unless evidence implies the opposite.

No, there needs to be context or something that specifically indicates what it refers to, such as mentioning that a character will destroy a planet.

So, unusable, could very well be 4-B or below.

It could be anyone, but looking at what has already been demonstrated this serves as an endorsement of 4-A.

... That Nova did not perform.

It is not known.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The Marvel universe being infinite has contradictions iirc

 

[Confluctor]

Only one I can recall is the 1 trillion light years statement.

We have countless light years galaxies in MU

 

[Armorchompy]

On the inorganic planet.

Which was not destroyed. Could I ask you to fish up the scans of everything else being destroyed? Cuz if it was, that's fine.

The power that Mjolnir has comes directly from Mother Storm.

Yes ok, coming from =/= being as strong as, just cause he can draw from her power doesn't mean he can draw all of it.

No, there needs to be context or something that specifically indicates what it refers to, such as mentioning that a character will destroy a planet.

Is that so? Never heard of it I must admit.

It could be anyone, but looking at what has already been demonstrated this serves as an endorsement of 4-A.

No, not really. I mean, not in any concrete way beyond "This miiight be a 4-A feat. Or maybe millions of times below 4-A. Or millions above it, which would not help my CRT"

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Which was not destroyed. Could I ask you to fish up the scans of everything else being destroyed? Cuz if it was, that's fine.

Here you can see that the explosion wiped out all the organic matter in the black galaxy.

Yes ok, coming from =/= being as strong as, just cause he can draw from her power doesn't mean he can draw all of it.

Jane Foster uses this power regularly, why would he use this power to neutralize a supernova but not to take down mortal enemies like Mangog?

Is that so? Never heard of it I must admit.

Of course you would, otherwise you would have Buu at level 3-A because of his multiple declarations of being able to destroy the universe.

No, not really. I mean, not in any concrete way beyond "This miiight be a 4-A feat. Or maybe millions of times below 4-A. Or millions above it, which would not help my CRT"

From the way it's said it's clear that SS's power is capable of destroying a galaxy easily, plus I don't know if you read what I wrote before mentioning this statement "I'm not saying that these are 100% legitimate claims at the 4-A level, but it serves as a backup."

It still serves as backup because of the fact that SS and other characters at his level have feats that are at 4-A.
Also this claim was made in a Stan Lee comic, which seems to consider them 4-A looking at Thor's feats and statements.

 

[Armorchompy]

Here you can see that the explosion wiped out all the organic matter in the black galaxy.

Alright. Organic matter wouldn't really mean anything since the bulk of any planet or star is inorganic, but it does seem to have actually destroyed it. Do you mind if I ask you to show me how close the container was to the blast, though? It could make for a better feat.

Jane Foster uses this power regularly, why would he use this power to neutralize a supernova but not to take down mortal enemies like Mangog?

I thought she was just drawing from it in some special way. If it's just a normal feat then sure.

"I'm not saying that these are 100% legitimate claims at the 4-A level, but it serves as a backup."

Eh, fair

It still serves as backup because of the fact that SS and other characters at his level have feats that are at 4-A.
Also this claim was made in a Stan Lee comic, which seems to consider them 4-A looking at Thor's feats and statements.

I seriously doubt Stan Lee, had any idea of the exact power behind shaking a universe, for all we know he thought it was 3-A or 5-C. Especially Stan Lee, who has made it pretty clear he doesn't care about character power levels.

 

[The_Impress]

I'm not sure; I have heard of plans to revise Marvel heralds and FanofRPGs admitted he's not as knowledgeable on Marvel as he is with DC

Are alot of calculations made by FanOfRPG? In that case I feel they should be recalced maybe, Fan's calculation methods are likely dated by current wiki standards considering how old they are

Overall I think if we're getting consistently 3-C results, they overpower our 4-B listings, and should be favoured then.

 

[IDrey]

Agree.

 

[Armorchompy]

To be precise, what's the trillions statement? I could try my hand at redoing the calcs unless OP prefers to.

 

[Confluctor]

Trillions what? Trillion light years for the size of the universe?

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah

 

[Confluctor]

 

[Eficiente]

I don't disagree with the idea in general. I had a small debate above the black galaxy feat in its calc, I remember still disagreeing with it. What's the durability of that small robot from the High Evolutionary that survived the explosion too; is it herald level?

 

[Kulf_Boba]

I don't disagree with the idea in general. I had a small debate above the black galaxy feat in its calc, I remember still disagreeing with it. What's the durability of that small robot from the High Evolutionary that survived the explosion too; is it herald level?

That Robot was able to withstand a shockwave created by Ego and Galactus that was able to knock Thor out.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Alright. Organic matter wouldn't really mean anything since the bulk of any planet or star is inorganic, but it does seem to have actually destroyed it. Do you mind if I ask you to show me how close the container was to the blast, though? It could make for a better feat.

It has already been explicitly mentioned that all matter in the Black Galaxy, except this planetoid, is made of organic matter.

It seems to me that there is no panel to show exactly how close it was, but from what I remember the Celestial was carrying it.

 

[Armorchompy]

It has already been explicitly mentioned that all matter in the Black Galaxy, except this planetoid, is made of organic matter.

Ah, weird

It seems to me that there is no panel to show exactly how close it was, but from what I remember the Celestial was carrying it.

Wouldn't that be point-blank, so 3-C?

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Wouldn't that be point-blank, so 3-C?

For that the container would have to be completely in the epicenter, if it is only a few meters away it would only be receiving Level 4-A energies.

 

[Armorchompy]

Could be worth calcing, how tall is your average Celestial?

 

[Phantom_Falcon]

Redoing this with trillion LY instead
500 billion LY radius minimum, so 4.73036524e27m
For a Magnitude 1?
E = 4 * (1.410253747010E+17)* ((4.73036524e27m)/(6371000))^2 = 3.1097924e59 joules
Which is multi galaxy I believe

 

[Armorchompy]

huh

 

[Phantom_Falcon]

For those shaking the planets at the edge of the universe feats, right
Mahvel universe is a trillion LY in diameter
Which increases the distance and the reuslts