Hellblaze Regeneration Negation Downgrade/Possible Removal (Seven Deadly Sins)

[Deceived3596]

I've been planning to post this thread after reading the Demon Clan and Goddess Clan Physiology pages, with both having Mid-High regeneration negation and resistance to Mid-High regeneration negation respectively.

Spoiler: Reasonings

Demon Clan

"Hellfire Manipulation, Regeneration Negation (Mid-High), Resistance Negation: Demons can use black purgatory fire/hellblaze, nullify regeneration of other such as Ban. Purgatory flame can burn the Fairy King's forest which is immune to natural fire and Izraf stated it could harm him although regular fire could not."

Goddess Clan

"Healing Negation (Mid-High): Their healing wasn't affected by Hellblaze, which is able to negate Ban's regeneration."

The feat in question that grants Demon Clan members this negation is here, the context of this feat is that Meliodas sliced Ban's neck with his sword, which Ban couldn’t regenerate completely from as shown with the scar on his neck.

While the feat for the Angel’s resistance is the fact high-ranking angels like Sariel and Tarmiel can regenerate damage done by Hellblaze attacks from the 10 Commandments.

The reasoning behind why we assume that this was done with Hellblaze specifically is currently completely lost on me, since we don’t have any indication it was done by Hellblaze at all, no sort of flames were whisking from Meliodas’s blade, no burn marks were present on Ban’s skin, literally nothing within the manga (that i know of) gives us either direct conformation this was done by Hellblaze or heavy implications it was done by Hellblaze.

If anyone has evidence this was done by Hellblaze then I'm fine with the ability being scalable to all Hellblaze users and Goddesses keeping their resistance to Hellblaze regen negation as well.

(Note - Got direct confirmation this was done by Hellblaze, so discard this specific part of my post)

The original main purpose of this thread wasn’t about getting rid of the ability entirely, but rather to greatly downgrade it since it’s completely wanked in its current state.

We currently give Hellblaze users COMPLETE negation to Mid-High level regeneration, while also giving people who resist Hellblaze COMPLETE resistance to Mid-High level regeneration negation.

This is wrong since the feat in question actively debunks this notion, Ban’s regeneration wasn’t completely nullified at all, the fact he has a scar from Meliodas's attack inherently proves he regenerated the wound since scarring only happens when a wound heals/regenerates.

Hellblaze doesn’t completely negate Mid-High regeneration, it just causes those with Mid-High regeneration to be unable to fully heal the scarring done by Hellblaze-based attacks, that’s it.

So the full rating needs to be drastically reworked and downgraded since it currently contradicts the feat in question.

I’ve written up the new text that’ll be added to both blogs, here they are.

Spoiler: Rewording

“Limited Regeneration Negation (Mid-High: Hellblaze users can somewhat negate the regeneration of immortals on the level of Ban, causing permanent scarring which can’t be regenerated from)”

“Resistance to Limited Regeneration Negation (Mid-High: High-Ranking Angels don’t have permanent scarring left on their bodies after they regenerate damaged done by Hellblaze attacks)”

TLDR - Regeneration Negation with Hellblaze should be removed since there's no evidence currently on the blogs which proves it was done specifically by Hellblaze, but if evidence is presented in this thread that it was done by Hellblaze than Hellblaze's regeneration negation needs to be greatly limited because the feat in question actively contradicts a full rating, this would cause those who resist this regeneration negation to have their resistance downgraded as well.

---

Agree - DemonGodMitchAubin, Planck69, KingTempest

Disagree -

Neutral - ByAsura

 

[ByAsura]

It was done by Hellblaze.

Other than that, I'm neutral.

 

[speedster352]

Yeah Meliodas wasn’t actually trying to kill ban and even ban was concerned about Meliodas actually killing him. Hellblaze is confined by the author to negate even an immortals regeneration.

 

[Deceived3596]

Yeah Meliodas wasn’t actually trying to kill ban and even ban was concerned about Meliodas actually killing him

Evidence?

Hellblaze is confined by the author to negate even an immortals regeneration.

Doesn't debunk my argument since i'm saying while it does negate the regeneration of immortals like Ban it doesn't do it completely as i explained in the OP.

 

[speedster352]

Evidence?


Doesn't debunk my argument since i'm saying while it does negate the regeneration of immortals like Ban it doesn't do it completely as i explained in the OP.

The scan that byashura showed Meliodas was just giving ban a warning Here Hellblaze negated SD healing which is low godly.

 

[Le'garde273]

Okay fine disagree

The mid high regeneration wasn't only happen in ban case but also fraudrin.
Which is he can regenerated from being vaporized with hendrickson ability

Meliodas destroyed danafor with his hellblaze burning as you can see in this chapter, his caused black fire that burning the entire danafor for 3 days and 3 night. Which also fraudrin got burn away in those moment and cannot regenerated

For sure in ban case
Hellblaze was negate his immortality regeneration, as far we know fairy forest sacred water and the forest itself can be burn by hellblaze although it's be state cannot be burn by natural fire, and not his normal human healing. He has no resistance to fire manipulation until he adapted to purgatory environment. so that's why the scar burn wound still there. Even after he was lose his immortality he can easily regenerated his stomach after getting stabbed by demon king, but not with his scar neck, giving it permanent wound which give more proof the regeneration was negated by hellblaze

 

[BOEGVELD]

Definitely disagree with removing it, but a limited rating is fine imo.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah it’s rather objective that Ban didn’t have his regen entirely negated since, he healed up with just a scar. Limited is the best it can get with Ban’s instance.

 

[speedster352]

I disagree with the crt fra

 

[Makai641001]

I've been planning to post this thread after reading the Demon Clan and Goddess Clan Physiology pages, with both having Mid-High regeneration negation and resistance to Mid-High regeneration negation respectively.

Spoiler: Reasonings

Demon Clan

"Hellfire Manipulation, Regeneration Negation (Mid-High), Resistance Negation: Demons can use black purgatory fire/hellblaze, nullify regeneration of other such as Ban. Purgatory flame can burn the Fairy King's forest which is immune to natural fire and Izraf stated it could harm him although regular fire could not."

Goddess Clan

"Healing Negation (Mid-High): Their healing wasn't affected by Hellblaze, which is able to negate Ban's regeneration."

The feat in question that grants Demon Clan members this negation is here, the context of this feat is that Meliodas sliced Ban's neck with his sword, which Ban couldn’t regenerate completely from as shown with the scar on his neck.

While the feat for the Angel’s resistance is the fact high-ranking angels like Sariel and Tarmiel can regenerate damage done by Hellblaze attacks from the 10 Commandments.

The reasoning behind why we assume that this was done with Hellblaze specifically is currently completely lost on me, since we don’t have any indication it was done by Hellblaze at all, no sort of flames were whisking from Meliodas’s blade, no burn marks were present on Ban’s skin, literally nothing within the manga (that i know of) gives us either direct conformation this was done by Hellblaze or heavy implications it was done by Hellblaze.

If anyone has evidence this was done by Hellblaze then I'm fine with the ability being scalable to all Hellblaze users and Goddesses keeping their resistance to Hellblaze regen negation as well.

(Note - Got direct confirmation this was done by Hellblaze, so discard this specific part of my post)

The original main purpose of this thread wasn’t about getting rid of the ability entirely, but rather to greatly downgrade it since it’s completely wanked in its current state.

We currently give Hellblaze users COMPLETE negation to Mid-High level regeneration, while also giving people who resist Hellblaze COMPLETE resistance to Mid-High level regeneration negation.

This is wrong since the feat in question actively debunks this notion, Ban’s regeneration wasn’t completely nullified at all, the fact he has a scar from Meliodas's attack inherently proves he regenerated the wound since scarring only happens when a wound heals/regenerates.

Hellblaze doesn’t completely negate Mid-High regeneration, it just causes those with Mid-High regeneration to be unable to fully heal the scarring done by Hellblaze-based attacks, that’s it.

So the full rating needs to be drastically reworked and downgraded since it currently contradicts the feat in question.

I’ve written up the new text that’ll be added to both blogs, here they are.

Spoiler: Rewording

“Limited Regeneration Negation (Mid-High: Hellblaze users can somewhat negate the regeneration of immortals on the level of Ban, causing permanent scarring which can’t be regenerated from)”

“Resistance to Limited Regeneration Negation (Mid-High: High-Ranking Angels don’t have permanent scarring left on their bodies after they regenerate damaged done by Hellblaze attacks)”

TLDR - Regeneration Negation with Hellblaze should be removed since there's no evidence currently on the blogs which proves it was done specifically by Hellblaze, but if evidence is presented in this thread that it was done by Hellblaze than Hellblaze's regeneration negation needs to be greatly limited because the feat in question actively contradicts a full rating, this would cause those who resist this regeneration negation to have their resistance downgraded as well.

---

Agree -

Disagree -

Neutral - ByAsura

Meli wasn’t bloodlusted he warned him and probably stopped the flames
Fraudrin completely lost his body and couldn’t regen it after He was burned

I disagree with the CRT it doesn’t really make sense

Edit: Someone else talked about it i didn’t see sorry

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Agree with the downgrade

 

[speedster352]

Agree with the downgrade

Fraudrin was able to regenerate his body from Hellblaze and he came back from smoke.

Okay fine disagree

The mid high regeneration wasn't only happen in ban case but also fraudrin.
Which is he can regenerated from being vaporized with hendrickson ability

Meliodas destroyed danafor with his hellblaze burning as you can see in this chapter, his caused black fire that burning the entire danafor for 3 days and 3 night. Which also fraudrin got burn away in those moment and cannot regenerated

For sure in ban case
Hellblaze was negate his immortality regeneration, as far we know fairy forest sacred water and the forest itself can be burn by hellblaze although it's be state cannot be burn by natural fire, and not his normal human healing. He has no resistance to fire manipulation until he adapted to purgatory environment. so that's why the scar burn wound still there. Even after he was lose his immortality he can easily regenerated his stomach after getting stabbed by demon king, but not with his scar neck, giving it permanent wound which give more proof the regeneration was negated by hellblaze

Meli wasn’t bloodlusted he warned him and probably stopped the flames
Fraudrin completely lost his body and couldn’t regen it after He was burned

I disagree with the CRT it doesn’t really make sense

Edit: Someone else talked about it i didn’t see sorry

Here like I said I disagree with this

 

[Deceived3596]

The reasoning behind disagreeing with the regen negation/resistance becoming limited is honestly terrible and i'll address it in a couple hours, just woke up.

 

[speedster352]

The reasoning behind disagreeing with the regen negation/resistance becoming limited is honestly terrible and i'll address it in a couple hours, just woke up.

And we will address you counters

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Fraudrin was able to regenerate his body from Hellblaze and he came back from smoke.

You realize you just said that Fraudrin was still able to regenerate his body from a Regeneration Negating ability right? You're basically agreeing that Hellblaze didn't completely negate Fraudrin's ability to regenerate.

 

[Le'garde273]

Fraudrin was able to regenerate his body from Hellblaze and he came back from smoke.

Bruh he was regenerate from hendrickson ability not hellblaze, black flame hellblaze that exudes from meliodas completely make him can't regenerate

 

[Le'garde273]

As for more evidence for ban

Even after his head through neck was destroyed, he still can regenerated his head but not with his SCAR,
By logic it's wasn't possible to regenerated his wound back when his head through was destroyed, but the hellblaze still give permanent scar even after he regenerated back.
Also even we connect it to real life medical
The wound atleast should be become smaller after taking some while. But no, even after spending thousand year and even become dust in purgatory the scar still not healed away. Which more proof it's permanent.

As comparison when he spending thousand year in purgatory with meliodas

And after incident to 26 years later (in RL time)

 

[Rabbit2002]

Resistance to regen neg for Ban

 

[Makai641001]

The reasoning behind disagreeing with the regen negation/resistance becoming limited is honestly terrible and i'll address it in a couple hours, just woke up.

Him nullifying partially Mid High regen would Still be regen a negation up to mid High regen especially when he stopped the flames to avoid killing Ban

Goddesses of the horn got completely killed by the flames despite them normally being able to regen their body From nothing overtime

Fraudrin lost completely his body and existed still as dark energy

SD couldn’t come back after Kami chigiri

We have plenty of evidence simply Using a scar He made to Ban as an argument is mid he stopped these flames that can’t be extinguished normally to avoid killing his best friend

Anyway if this goes through and the downgrade is accepted despite the evidence we’ll use 4kota feats

 

[Deceived3596]

Can y'all stop shotgunning me with points? i'll address your arguments shortly (got sidetracked last night talking with friends)

Him nullifying partially Mid High regen would Still be regen a negation up to mid High regen especially when he stopped the flames to avoid killing Ban

1 - I already said that this would still be Mid-High regen negation, but it would only be limited because it doesn't actually, fully negate someone's regeneration, just causes that person to have permanent scarring.

2 - Nothing within the scans showed Hellblaze would've killed Ban, you can reread Chapter 9 if you wish, literally nothing in that instance implies such thing, unless you're talking about a difference instant, if so can you post said instance?

 

[Makai641001]

Can y'all stop shotgunning me with points? i'll address your arguments shortly (got sidetracked last night talking with friends)

Sorry i’ll just answer these take your Time to answer

1 - I already said that this would still be Mid-High regen negation, but it would only be limited because it doesn't actually, fully negate someone's regeneration, just causes that person to have permanent scarring.

Other evidences show it nullifying completely lvls on par or even > mid High regen

2 - Nothing within the scans showed Hellblaze would've killed Ban, you can reread Chapter 9 if you wish, literally nothing in that instance implies such thing, unless you're talking about a difference instant, if so can you post said instance?

Ye as i said he stopped the flames to avoid killing him other instances like danafor destruction SD fight in CBL and the horn goddesses show it negating completely the process his best friend getting a scar cause he stopped the flames isn’t an argument imho

 

[speedster352]

Can y'all stop shotgunning me with points? i'll address your arguments shortly (got sidetracked last night talking with friends)


1 - I already said that this would still be Mid-High regen negation, but it would only be limited because it doesn't actually, fully negate someone's regeneration, just causes that person to have permanent scarring.

2 - Nothing within the scans showed Hellblaze would've killed Ban, you can reread Chapter 9 if you wish, literally nothing in that instance implies such thing, unless you're talking about a difference instant, if so can you post said instance?

Ban head was blown up even his entire body once and he still had that scar

 

[Deceived3596]

Ban head was blown up even his entire body once and he still had that scar

Did you not read what i said in that post, have you even read my OP? this isn't a counter to what i'm saying.

 

[speedster352]

Did you not read what i said in that post, have you even read my OP? this isn't a counter to what i'm saying.

Yes, it is. It's clearly not limited and you're just trying to downgrade the verse for no reason. Why didn't ban's body heal the scar after his body was destroyed then? That's not how scars work they don't heal they just stay the same way so that doesn't counter anything. The op has weak reasoning for the downgrade and has been counter above so I disagree.

 

[speedster352]

Hellblaze is a dark power connected to the darkness of the Demon Realm. It allows the user to generate and control black flames that cannot be extinguished. In addition to its immensely devastating power, the flames also nullify any regenerative abilities including that of an immortal.

 

[Makai641001]

I

Hellblaze is a dark power connected to the darkness of the Demon Realm. It allows the user to generate and control black flames that cannot be extinguished. In addition to its immensely devastating power, the flames also nullify any regenerative abilities including that of an immortal.

I think the scar point isn’t a bad point in itself the context behind it is What isn’t respected by the argument Mel stopped his flames which would just mean he didn’t want to kill or to use the full extent of it’s power other instances where he used his demonic powers show by feats that he negated Regen on lvls on par or even higher than Ban’s

 

[Deceived3596]

Can someone who's debating for the NNT side create a post that's clear and concise on why they disagree with my thread, and provide evidence as well.

There's 4 post by 4 different people asserting 4 different claims/examples, this shit is next to impossible to accurately debate against, which is something i'm trying to do but can't because of these reasons.

 

[Le'garde273]

I'm with makai
Share same thought
Idk about speed and what he is talking about

 

[Le'garde273]

Your points said it wasn't really negated ban regeneration

But we already has 2 proof it's negated regeneration not only ban.
(And maybe 3 with makai supreme deity thing)

Meliodas at those point
Yeah he wasn't bloodlusted, he just want to keep away ban from his seal sword, because it's really dangerous.
Why the heck he will kill member that which he himself gathered together with Merlin because he knew the prediction of the threat of ten commandments from baltra.
(As you can see in ova 2/3 i forgot)

You want prove it wasn't bloodlusted?
Yeah we have

As you can see
He act same thing with zaratras

 

[Deceived3596]

Yeah he wasn't bloodlusted, he just want to keep away ban from his seal sword, because it's really dangerous.
Why the heck he will kill member that which he himself gathered together with Merlin because he knew the prediction of the threat of ten commandments from baltra.

The onus is on you to prove that anything within that chapter states or implies that Meliodas could've killed Ban with his Hellblaze if he wanted to.

You guys haven't fulfilled that burden yet even though i've asked you multiple times now.

 

[speedster352]

The onus is on you to prove that anything within that chapter states or implies that Meliodas could've killed Ban with his Hellblaze if he wanted to.

You guys haven't fulfilled that burden yet even though i've asked you multiple times now.

The op reasoning is still weak band body was obliterated many times and his scar still remained. We explained hellblaze has been shown to negate other regeneration as shown with fraudrin and SD

Hellblaze is a dark power connected to the darkness of the Demon Realm. It allows the user to generate and control black flames that cannot be extinguished. In addition to its immensely devastating power, the flames also nullify any regenerative abilities including that of an immortal.

This is confirmed by the author.

 

[Deceived3596]

The op reasoning is still weak band body was obligated many times and his scar still remained. We explained hellblaze has been shown to negate other regeneration as shown with fraudrin and SD

1 - It isn't weak since literally none of you people can actually debunk it correctly

2 - None of you actually have an argument on why Fraudrin and SD examples prove that Hellblaze has Mid-High regeneration negation, you just say "but fraudrin and SD" and act like it's an argument when it quite literally isn't.

Actually debate what i'm arguing instead of just saying random examples without providing any form context which proves what you're saying is correct, this shit is beyond tedious to deal with.

 

[Arkenis]

Shouldn't the other clear examples have just been used instead of ban? negging regen but leaves a scar so healing happened sounds like some weak regen neg

 

[Deceived3596]

Shouldn't the other clear examples have just been used instead of ban?

Imma be real with you and say i haven't seen any clear examples for complete regeneration negation yet tbh.

The closest thing i've seen was Fraudrin but i've got multiple contentions with it being a regen negation feat in general but i've been told we don't even assume Meliodas used Hellblaze in that instance, which is why we don't assume vaporization for Meliodas's feat with Danafor.

So i'm not going to even argue against the feat since we don't even assume Hellblaze was used in that scene to begin with (from what i've been told)

 

[speedster352]

As for more evidence for ban

Even after his head through neck was destroyed, he still can regenerated his head but not with his SCAR,
By logic it's wasn't possible to regenerated his wound back when his head through was destroyed, but the hellblaze still give permanent scar even after he regenerated back.
Also even we connect it to real life medical
The wound atleast should be become smaller after taking some while. But no, even after spending thousand year and even become dust in purgatory the scar still not healed away. Which more proof it's permanent.

As comparison when he spending thousand year in purgatory with meliodas

And after incident to 26 years later (in RL time)

Imma be real with you and say i haven't seen any clear examples for complete regeneration negation yet tbh.

The closest thing i've seen was Fraudrin but i've got multiple contentions with it being a regen negation feat in general but i've been told we don't even assume Meliodas used Hellblaze in that instance, which is why we don't assume vaporization for Meliodas's feat with Danafor.

So i'm not going to even argue against the feat since we don't even assume Hellblaze was used in that scene to begin with (from what i've been told)

Here

 

[Deceived3596]

Here

.......

Hellblaze doesn’t completely negate Mid-High regeneration, it just causes those with Mid-High regeneration to be unable to fully heal the scarring done by Hellblaze-based attacks, that’s it.

1 - I already said that this would still be Mid-High regen negation, but it would only be limited because it doesn't actually, fully negate someone's regeneration, just causes that person to have permanent scarring.

I'm not arguing against the ability being removed entirely, you guys need to actually read what i'm typing.

 

[speedster352]

.......



I'm not arguing against the ability being removed entirely, you guys need to actually read what i'm typing.

It's a needless downgrade

 

[Arkenis]

 

[Deceived3596]

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I love you speed