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He who shakes the infinite universe VS She who is the infinite universe

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Yeah, no. I saw the UI Goku fight. The first video you showed me had very obvious red strikes to show that's those were physical attacks, not advanced kiais, like pretty much every other time he glared.
 
The Everlasting said:
AntorusTheBurningThrone said:
The Causality said:
>Speed isn't equalized
>This girs is Omnipresent through time

Okay it's really a stomp....
Click to expand...
Guess who was ALSO Omnipresent...
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Fusion_Zamasu#Infinite Zamasu

THIS GUY! And guess who's basically surpassed him...

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Dragon_Ball_Super)

THIS GUY!
Click to expand...
Which is utterly irrelevant because Goku's never actually fought an Omnipresent opponent.
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Except, the Kai's, Beerus, and Whis could feel his Power. And with Jiren, even the Angels were amazed by him, Supreme Kai's never felt his Power before, and Son Goku/Vegeta have confirmed that Jiren's Ki is something they've never delt with before. And yes, Goku and Vegeta can sense God Ki, and they did try to face off against IZ. However, they were weakened, but I don't think it would've made a difference either way.

Jiren's beyond Infinite Zamazu. Jiren's ALSO been confirmed to be the mightiest opponent in DB History. Even more so than IZ.
 
And none of that has to do with what I said.

Goku has never fought someone with Omnipresence.

Besides, destroying all of the present would... you know... kill Goku, because he can't actually live without it.
 
The real cal howard said:
Yeah, no. I saw the UI Goku fight. The first video you showed me had very obvious red strikes to show that's those were physical attacks, not advanced kiais, like pretty much every other time he glared.
Click to expand...
...I literally said that. I literally said that he attacked Son Goku FAST during both his SSBKKx20 Fight, as well as his last fight against M.U.I Son Goku. The Spirit Bomb shit was a glare. His shit against SSBKKx20 Son Goku and U.I Son Goku wasn't.

Did you read my statement wrong? Or what?
 
The Everlasting said:
And none of that has to do with what I said.
Goku has never fought someone with Omnipresence.

Besides, destroying all of the present would... you know... kill Goku, because he can't actually live without it.
Click to expand...
Zeno destroyed the Future. Yet, we still saw Trunks and Mai in the Present.

See how this can be easily countered? Son Goku can just go to the Future, and shit.
 
The future becomes the present for Goku when he gets there. Goku can't just magically exist only in the future.
 
The Everlasting said:
The future becomes the present for Goku when he gets there. Goku can't just magically exist only in the future.
Click to expand...
With that logic, the Present becomes the Future for Trunks and Mai. Trunks and Mai can't just magically exist in only the Present (Even though, they clearly can).
 
The real cal howard said:
Alongside that, no one sans Zeno would be above a fully realized Infinite Zamasu anyway.
Click to expand...
Except it's been confirmed multiple times that no one can beat the Omni King. No matter how Powerful they are. No matter the Immortality, either.
 
That's not even remotely how it works.

The present is what is happening "right now", hence Future Trunks' timeline is technically his own present, it was only the future from the perspective of everyone else.

Goku can only exist in the present. He can't only exist in the past or future.
 
AntorusTheBurningThrone said:
With that logic, the Present becomes the Future for Trunks and Mai. Trunks and Mai can't just magically exist in only the Present (Even though, they clearly can).
Click to expand...
You being in another timeline =/= You being able to exist in a universe without a present.
 
The Everlasting said:
That's not even remotely how it works.
The present is what is happening "right now", hence Future Trunks' timeline is technically his own present, it was only the future from the perspective of everyone else.

Goku can only exist in the present. He can't only exist in the past or future.
Click to expand...
Then that would mean Trunks went back to the Past. Yet, he was capable of existing there fully.
 
Trunks existed in the present. That's entirely how it works.

To people in 1000 B.C., it's the present. It will still be the present to people in 3000 A.D.

It's only the past or future to us. The moment we currently exist in is still the present.

Without a present, Goku can't exist. This is inarguable.
 
DMB 1 said:
AntorusTheBurningThrone said:
With that logic, the Present becomes the Future for Trunks and Mai. Trunks and Mai can't just magically exist in only the Present (Even though, they clearly can).
Click to expand...
You being in another timeline =/= You being able to exist in a universe without a present.
Click to expand...
Except, Trunks was capable of existing in another Timeline, in the Past, without any consequences. Meanwhile, Trunk's "present" was destroyed by Zeno. And yet when Trunks went back to his Timeline with Son Goku to grab Future Zeno, nothing happened. He can still live in his Present, even when it's all destroyed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_T1rhRxqts

Cause, if what you're saying were the case, then Trunks should've been erased with his Timeline, once Zeno destroyed it.
 
The Everlasting said:
Trunks existed in the present. That's entirely how it works.
To people in 1000 B.C., it's the present. It will still be the present to people in 3000 A.D.

It's only the past or future to us. The moment we currently exist in is still the present.

Without a present, Goku can't exist. This is inarguable.
Click to expand...
"Trunks existed in the Present" Yet he was able to exist in his own Past. To him, that's not a Present. Therefore, he shouldnt've existed, yes? ...
 
AntorusTheBurningThrone said:
Except, Trunks was capable of existing in another Timeline, in the Past, without any consequences. Meanwhile, Trunk's "present" was destroyed by Zeno. And yet when Trunks went back to his Timeline with Son Goku to grab Future Zeno, nothing happened. He can still live in his Present, even when it's all destroyed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_T1rhRxqts

Cause, if what you're saying were the case, then Trunks should've been erased with his Timeline, once Zeno destroyed it.
Click to expand...
That's not a feat, that's an outlier.
 
DMB 1 said:
AntorusTheBurningThrone said:
Except, Trunks was capable of existing in another Timeline, in the Past, without any consequences. Meanwhile, Trunk's "present" was destroyed by Zeno. And yet when Trunks went back to his Timeline with Son Goku to grab Future Zeno, nothing happened. He can still live in his Present, even when it's all destroyed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_T1rhRxqts

Cause, if what you're saying were the case, then Trunks should've been erased with his Timeline, once Zeno destroyed it.
Click to expand...
That's not a feat, that's an outlier.
Click to expand...
Who said this was a feat? I'm stating that you can live without a Present.
 
You're acting like the past is an immutable state of the timeline that has a defined border.

The "present" is just whatever time period a character is currently existing in.

Trunks traveling back to kill Frieza is the present for him at that point, even if he's originally from the future.

Again, the present is the current state you exist i. You can't just exist in the future or the past, because that's still the present for you.

I seriously don't understand why you're not grasping this.
 
So...to be in the Present, you'd also have to have the Future and Past together. The Future and Past can also be part of the Present if you yourself are in it. Verthandi causes the Infinite Present to exist. Meaning, if Goku slays her, he has no present for him. Meaning, he won't exist...

Yet, considering they are from different verses, I don't see how you can use this as evidence. Since, her getting defeated won't cause the DB Present to go...
 
I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact, what you said was the best piece of evidence i've seen all day. However, since they're from different Verses, it makes you wonder as to why this should be a factor.
 
You... really don't understandt he meaning of the word present, do you? The present is the moment you currently exist in. You can't "exist" in the past or future because, if you're there, that's your present. Again, to someone in 1000 B.C., that's the present, and to someone in 3000 A.D., that is also the present, because shock of all shocks, the present is not some weird immutable state of existence. It's just the moment you are currently experiencing.

"Yet, considering they are from different verses, I don't see how you can use this as evidence. Since, her getting defeated won't cause the DB Present to go..."

Where are you even getting this idea?
 
The present is the smallest portion of time possible. Even an attosecond of difference can deem something as past or future in relation to our perspective.
 
Except it's been confirmed multiple times that no one can beat the Omni King. No matter how Powerful they are. No matter the Immortality, either.

That's...exactly what I said.
 
The Everlasting said:
You... really don't understandt he meaning of the word present, do you? The present is the moment you currently exist in. You can't "exist" in the past or future because, if you're there, that's your present. Again, to someone in 1000 B.C., that's the present, and to someone in 3000 A.D., that is also the present, because shock of all shocks, the present is not some weird immutable state of existence. It's just the moment you are currently experiencing.
"Yet, considering they are from different verses, I don't see how you can use this as evidence. Since, her getting defeated won't cause the DB Present to go..."

Where are you even getting this idea?
Click to expand...
I mean, I can't counter this. You're right on that.

I actually give up. Yet, i'm not voting Verth. You can't expect me to take a vague statement with no visual proof. However, I shall eliminate my vote for Son Goku. However, that's due to the whole present Argument, and nothing about...well...everything else.

I vote inconclusive. This can't be added though. Mostly cause of how confusing most of this is. This is either a Stomp, or it's not explained enough.
 
The real cal howard said:
Except it's been confirmed multiple times that no one can beat the Omni King. No matter how Powerful they are. No matter the Immortality, either.
Click to expand...
That's...exactly what I said.

You said "No one said Zeno would be fully above a realized IZ"

I said "No one can beat Zeno at all"

You didn't say what I said.
 
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