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He who shakes the infinite universe VS She who is the infinite universe

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Transcending time in the statement either equals the literal transcendence of time or the figurative transcendence (As in, unaffected by it), using context clues we can determine which is the case.

Is Jiren even remotely affected by the time manipulation in the beginning?

If no, then perhaps he did transcend time. If yes, then it would be he is "just" unaffected by it.

Did Jiren literally defeat everyone there, quite literally even before the tournament began? (Quite a feat would be easy for someone who has gone beyond time entirely.)

Etc etc, from what I see of the clip, it seems like Jiren would not be in the "true transcendence" category and rather in the "unaffected by time manip (or time stop)" category.

That said, I'm a bit hesistant to say Goku's opposition here beats him. From what her speed description suggests, it sounds like just 3-D omnipresence over the here and now.
 
And what Time Manipulation? Gonna need more than vague "Oh it's superior to Hit's" even though it's shown Hit can have full blown conversation in his Time Stop now. Needs more context on Reality Warping as just saying "Muh she has it" isn't valid reasoning. And being Universal+ by existing isn't giving her any favours because I have yet to see reasoning that this Universal+ AP would be able to even harm Goku at all.

In short; you guys have basically proven nothing so far. Reasonings above are fairly flawed, so... For now, I have to go Goku High Diff mostly due to Type 8 immortality.

Edit:

"Did Jiren literally defeat everyone there, quite literally even before the tournament began? "

Because Zen'O would throw a hissy fit and he'd get erased on the spot. Just saying man. It's like saying "Why does Jiren infinitely limit himself to 3-A level fighters?". Because if no entertainment is provided, everyone dies period. Casually 2-C by a literal squish of the hand > Any level of Low 2-C.
 
"Hit can have full blown conversation in his Time Stop now"

Talking is a free action, y'know.

Or it's just Hit being, y'know, fast.
 
So does this character have anything to her name besides AP justification? I don't even see a move list for her at all.
 
SomebodyData said:
Transcending time in the statement either equals the literal transcendence of time or the figurative transcendence (As in, unaffected by it), using context clues we can determine which is the case.
Is Jiren even remotely affected by the time manipulation in the beginning?

If no, then perhaps he did transcend time. If yes, then it would be he is "just" unaffected by it.

Did Jiren literally defeat everyone there, quite literally even before the tournament began? (Quite a feat would be easy for someone who has gone beyond time entirely.)

Etc etc, from what I see of the clip, it seems like Jiren would not be in the "true transcendence" category and rather in the "unaffected by time manip (or time stop)" category.

That said, I'm a bit hesistant to say Goku's opposition here beats him. From what her speed description suggests, it sounds like just 3-D omnipresence over the here and now.
Click to expand...
Jiren wasn't affected by ANY of Hit's attacks. And when Hit Time caged Jiren, he mostly just ****** with him, since Jiren didn't really try when breaking out of Hit's Time Cage. He was only struggling due to him not caring much about showing his Strength. He wanted to look weak, just so he could damage the Assassin's Pride. Hell, this is only proven once you realize that all he needed to do was glare Hit's Time Cage to shit. Similar thing happened with Goku's Spirit Bomb, where it DID look like Jiren was struggling, only for him to glare the Spirit Bomb to oblivion.
 
The Everlasting said:
"Hit can have full blown conversation in his Time Stop now"
Talking is a free action, y'know.

Or it's just Hit being, y'know, fast.
Click to expand...
Hit being fast doesn't excuse the fact that the ring leader boss guy isn't anywhere near 3-A yet can still have a normal conversation with Hit. Also, Talking being a free action doesn't somehow dismiss the fact that the entire conversation happened inside Time Skip.
 
Did you not read what Antorus just posted above? Jiren was completely ******* around. All he needed to do was flipping glare at it hard enough and the cage when bye bye.

Edit: Oh, and Jiren "Looked" like he was struggling against the Spirit Bomb too. Then proceeded to glare at it and 1-shot it with no difficulty whatsoever.
 
"Also, Talking being a free action doesn't somehow dismiss the fact that the entire conversation happened inside Time Skip."

Except... it entirely does? That's the entire point of talking is a free action.
 
The Everlasting said:
"Hit can have full blown conversation in his Time Stop now"
Talking is a free action, y'know.

Or it's just Hit being, y'know, fast.
Click to expand...
Everyone else was frozen in Time, yet the boss guy (Who's AROUND his people's level in terms of power) was capable of moving around and such inside of Hit's Time Skip. Hit can create and hide in an entire separate Dimension with the stored Time he's skipped. All of which can last for however long he wants it to be. He can also share his "dimension" with his victims.
 
And do you have any Anti-Feats to disprove Hit's longer Time-Stop?

Jiren literally breaks through Hit's Time Stop so that ain't one. Goku repeatedly gets pwned by it until he himself is able to break through Time Stop, so that ain't one.

Edit:

"If Jiren transcended time he wouldn't have been affected by it to begin with."

Oh, then I could say by the same logic "If Jiren was Low 2-C then he shouldn't ever be hurt by people that's 3-A no matter what!". Seriously dude, Jiren is like the incarnation of "Holding Back".
 
The Everlasting said:
Yeah because suppressing his power would make Jiren bound by time.
Click to expand...
And Goku supressing his Power would make him Star level. -_-

See what i'm saying here? Supressing your Power ALWAYS makes you weaker than what you actually are.
 
Again, by the system we have here, Jiren literally INFINITELY SUPRESSED HIMSELF. Jiren suppressing himself to be effected by time is very logical in the DB verse. Just because you don't buy it doesn't mean it isn't what happened.
 
I mean, supressing one's Power has ALWAYS been a thing. Remember Freeza back in the Namek Arc?! The ******'s "first" form could lose to Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta, yet his FULL POWER was around SSJ Level...
 
Being affected by time is a metaphysical limitation. Suppressing yourself doesn't make you bound by it.

Regardless this isn't accepted so if you want to debate with it anyway make a thread.
 
The Everlasting said:
Being affected by time is a metaphysical limitation. Suppressing yourself doesn't make you bound by it.
Regardless this isn't accepted so if you want to debate with it anyway make a thread.
Click to expand...
Oh yes it does. Someone's new to DB. Metaphysical Limitations in DB are like flowers. The full flower itself surpasses it. Yet, when unbloomed, it's affected by the Metaphysical Limitation.

The same goes for one's Full Power, and one's supressed Power. A Casual, supressed, lacking Jiren's affected by Time, while a Fully Powered Jiren's not at ALL affected.
 
The Everlasting said:
Being affected by time is a metaphysical limitation. Suppressing yourself doesn't make you bound by it.
Regardless this isn't accepted so if you want to debate with it anyway make a thread.
Click to expand...
Your logic, Not Dragon Ball's. They literally infinitely restrict themselves all the time by a whole dimension down (from 4-D to 3-D).

Anyways, regardless of Time Manipulation, we still need to address everything I asked about in my first message on this thread.

@Paulo.junior.969

"Verthandi for the reasons above, I guess."

What reasons? Refer to my upper "Debunk" reply. All the reasonings given for Verthandi are vague and need WAY more reasoning.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
Reality Warping, Time Hax, Immortality and being Low 2-C by existing.
Click to expand...
Reality warping needs citation.

Time hax is being argued.

Immortality relies on the now, something Goku can easily erase. Also her Immortality seems to coincide with her omnipresence which also seems to only be 3D Omnipresence. gonna debate about that later.

And Low 2-C by existing means absolutely nothing when Goku shrugs off attacks from people who utterly roflstomps other Low 2-Cs with no difficulty whatsoever. I can send out forces surpassing that of a bullet passively every 0.001 Nanoseconds but a well-built Titanium Tank is gonna go "YEET" and tank that crap with no problem.
 
I don't think Goku can easily defeat her, mostly due to her Immortality. I mean, Zamasu's Immortal, and look at what happened to him. And that's not even Type 8 Immortality.

However, throughout the whole "Goku defeating Low 2-C guys with ease", please do keep in mind...

Jiren's BEYOND Infinite Zamasu just by staring at a SSBKKx20 Spirit Bomb...
 
Everything is vague..

How does she reality warp and is it in character to use at all for combat purposes?

In what way does she manipulate time?

type 1 immortality is pretty useless in this battle and if I Remeber correctly we don't use type 8?

And again how does she start in combat?
 
Gotta say, Verthandi's profile is friggin shell. It literally tells you nothing but her AP justification.

I have no stake in this, but that's only because I know nothing about Goku's opponent and have nothing to work with.

Seriously, how is anyone supposed to debate something when the profile doesn't tell us anything, at all???
 
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