Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

[Astral_Trinity439]

Not really seeing the layers here.

For the Healing and Holy manip part

First there is a basic grade Holy Type Healing spell, which serves as Baseline of said hax
Then there is Hinata who resisted the Healing effect of Healing potion, which heals the target, due to her passive purification, baseline resistance
Then there is luminous who used an advanced/miracle grade holy type healing magic and it successfully healed Hinata, 1 layer

For the purification part, the baseline was basic level holy magic, which can purify the undead and the like, this is the baseline for purification
and then there are Spiritual lifeforms that have resistant to holy based attacks, now, while we cant say this extends to miracle grade holy magic resistance as well, but they should, by that, at least resist normal holy magic, this becomes baseline resistance
Then there is holy arc, a miracle grade holy magic, which burned even luminous, a vampire, and a spiritual lifeform, this becomes 1 layer

 

[Pedonar]

Alright, time to get some of this out of the way.
@Pedonar not really seeing the layered stuff, you mostly explained the resistance to the slime powers but that's it.

1. The MC resisted slime power absorption = base resistance, Then another character named manticore absorbed the MC’s powers, so this should be 1 layer for manticore
2. The MC was able to debuff a monster who has debuff resistance; it’s directly 1 layer or not ?
3. For the same reason as above, character A has resistance to poison and was affected by the MC’s poison.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

@TheGreatJedi13 the primal beasts resisting it wouldn't be layered hax, just baseline resistance, though admittedly I can't exactly see where the part of the primals are affected here so any pointers to where it's said and I can see 1 layer. Idk what you're talking about with the 7-D soul stuff so some elaboration would help.

This is the part when he went completely berserk after Nio and the Orchestra tried to correct his dissonance. As mentioned by Nio he might go berserk and it is up to the crew to suppress him until they fully tune his melody alongside the negative emotions of the islanders that he accumulated

Then the aftermath where Nio believes he won't go berserk again.

Regarding Lyria Absorbing Caro. they later confirmed he absorbs only his powers and none of his emotions/heart which is why he does not respond even if Lyria tries to call him

ignore the 7D part I'll probably make a separate CRT since it might include Universal Energy System

 

[RanaProGamer]

@RanaProGamer first thing doesn't remotely show resistance, just that sakura had to knock naruto out of the control, so that wouldn't really mean much. The rest just shows baseline resistance to 1 layer of hax/resistance.

Sakura didn't knock Naruto out of it, Tsunade puts him to sleep and tells him Naruto how to break out it and Naruto breaks out of it on his own.

 

[Flashlight237]

Alright, time to get some of this out of the way.
@Pedonar not really seeing the layered stuff, you mostly explained the resistance to the slime powers but that's it.

@RanaProGamer first thing doesn't remotely show resistance, just that sakura had to knock naruto out of the control, so that wouldn't really mean much. The rest just shows baseline resistance to 1 layer of hax/resistance.

@TheGreatJedi13 the primal beasts resisting it wouldn't be layered hax, just baseline resistance, though admittedly I can't exactly see where the part of the primals are affected here so any pointers to where it's said and I can see 1 layer. Idk what you're talking about with the 7-D soul stuff so some elaboration would help.

@Flashlight237 I'm not really seeing layered hax here. We just have petrification resistance and mind control resistance, which are two separate abilities so this wouldnt constitute as layered hax.

@Omazio2019 that sounds a bit more like a weakness gimmick of countering a KR ability with another KR ability. It looks more like that Omazio just grants other riders resistance to other characters powers.

@Astral_Trinity439 Not really seeing the layers here.

@Wikisource you copied the corrosion stuff twice, also where's the layered stuff for the causality/time stuff?

@Mizuki67 looks fine I suppose.

Fair enough. I had my suspicions. Hey, if it helps, I suggested this thread to be pinned either here or in WIki Management.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Astral_Trinity439 the purification being what stops the healing and holy manipulation isn't a resistance, that's the equivalent of resisting a bug bite because of bug repellant, you're not resisting anything, you're just killing off the thing that has the ability in the first place.

@RanaProGamer you should've used that in the explanation, that's still just baseline resistance for the naruto resistance feat.

@TheGreatJedi13 much better thanks.

@Pedonar where's the manticore absorbing the main character scan? Can you highlight that part because I just see an imgur link with along dragged out explanation of absorption.

 

[RanaProGamer]

@RanaProGamer you should've used that in the explanation, that's still just baseline resistance for the naruto resistance feat.

My bad on that, I think I tried splitting the timeframes of the videos and it didn’t copy properly. So any reason the resistance feats after that wouldn’t be layers?

 

[Theglassman12]

The first one with naruto resisting the genjutsu would be baseline is what I meant, the others upscaling from the naruto stuff would be just one to two layers.

 

[Pedonar]

@Pedonar where's the manticore absorbing the main character scan? Can you highlight that part because I just see an imgur link with along dragged out explanation of absorption.

Here

 

[Theglassman12]

yeah not seeing it there tbh.

 

[Pedonar]

yeah not seeing it there tbh.

Slime, MC, and Manticore have similar abilities that allow them to steal or copy any power they consume/eat.

For example, if character A has fire manipulation and is eaten by one of these characters, partially or entirely, they will also gain that ability.

Now for the layered absorption: it started with the Slime trying to consume the MC but failing and being consumed instead.

Then, after 30-40 chapters, another character with a similar ability, called Manticore, appeared and managed to consume part of the MC's body, which allowed him to copy the MC's power.

The MC resisted the Slime's skill, and then Manticore absorbed the MC's power.

So, how is this not layered absorption?

 

[Theglassman12]

the scans doesn't remotely show anything on how the MC's body is being absorbed instead, just that the fishes just don't consume him and he burns them all.

 

[Pedonar]

the scans doesn't remotely show anything on how the MC's body is being absorbed instead, just that the fishes just don't consume him and he burns them all.

So “My ability” and “He’s developing them after eating my flesh” are not enough ?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

@Astral_Trinity439 the purification being what stops the healing and holy manipulation isn't a resistance, that's the equivalent of resisting a bug bite because of bug repellant, you're not resisting anything, you're just killing off the thing that has the ability in the first place.

AIright

 

[Wikisource]

@Wikisource you copied the corrosion stuff twice, also where's the layered stuff for the causality/time stuff?

I edited.

About layered causality/time. Ushio can create a causality/time loop, which can affect to the Haine's right eye owner, who have resistance to causality/time. We discussed this before.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Pedonar given that the full on absorption that the slime and MC does isn't happening here, I don't really see it unless they're visually different.

@Wikisource can you show me the exact scan of this happening?

 

[Kachon123]

I'm curious about something. Could I post a sandbox with the layers for a bunch of different characters of a verse here for it to be evaluated for each?

 

[Wikisource]

@Wikisource can you show me the exact scan of this happening?

I explained and show it in the cosmology page. For e.g, Shinpei have Haine right's eye but I was affected by causality loop.

 

[Pedonar]

@Pedonar given that the full on absorption that the slime and MC does isn't happening here, I don't really see it unless they're visually different.

What do you mean it’s different? Hopefully you can explain something

 

[Flashlight237]

Uhh... Would this count as layered Time Manipulation..?:


I mean, it's a time loop, but given how the time loop works (a simple floor trap sending Jashin-chan into the next timeline), it feels like the time loop/timelines works literally like this:

Did I mention Jashin-chan is a Type 1 Acausality user?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Wikisource you’re not explaining anything, you’re just linking a cosmology blog and none of the scans remotely talk about Shinpei having resistance to causality hax and being affected. Give me the scans of him resisting it and being affected.

@Pedonar the absorption from the slime doesn’t remotely look anything like what’s happening with the fishes, again not seeing how this is bypassing resistance to absorption here.

@Flashlight237 what part of being in a timeloop constitutes as layered time manipulation? Unless they keep forgetting each timeline reset despite being Acausal (which isn’t the case since she seems to remember every time) I don’t see it.

 

[Pedonar]

@Pedonar the absorption from the slime doesn’t remotely look anything like what’s happening with the fishes, again not seeing how this is bypassing resistance to absorption here.

What fishes?

Look at the link again. I added more scans. The manticore directly ate part of the MC’s body, and that “fishes” is an ability that the MC uses. The manticore stole this ability, which allows the user to turn any part of their body into parasites or some living form only.

So basically, that “fishes” is an ability that he stole after eating part of the MC’s body.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm curious about something. Could I post a sandbox with the layers for a bunch of different characters of a verse here for it to be evaluated for each?

.

 

[Flashlight237]

@Wikisource you’re not explaining anything, you’re just linking a cosmology blog and none of the scans remotely talk about Shinpei having resistance to causality hax and being affected. Give me the scans of him resisting it and being affected.

@Pedonar the absorption from the slime doesn’t remotely look anything like what’s happening with the fishes, again not seeing how this is bypassing resistance to absorption here.

@Flashlight237 what part of being in a timeloop constitutes as layered time manipulation? Unless they keep forgetting each timeline reset despite being Acausal (which isn’t the case since she seems to remember every time) I don’t see it.

I mean, the part where people other than Jashin-chan don't follow her into the other timelines (bearing in mind the time loop comes in the form of a physical object, i.e. a floor trap), leaving 17,710 entire timelines without a Jashin-chan?

 

[Wikisource]

@Wikisource you’re not explaining anything, you’re just linking a cosmology blog and none of the scans remotely talk about Shinpei having resistance to causality hax and being affected. Give me the scans of him resisting it and being affected.

Alr, Shinpei have resistance to causality/time hax because this. He have Haine's right eye, which stated that "the power that overcome time". Time within causality so anyone have Haine's right eye should have resistance to causality/time hax.

About causality/time loop.

After erasing Hiruko from the past, Ushio time traveled to the past. Here, she was the one who said what Shinpei heard, the one who sent the message to Hizuru, the one who gave Haine's eyes to Shinpei (what Shinpei saw in chapter 1). This proves that events in SR do not just happen once but happen many times, all creating an endless loop.

Ushio gives the eye to Shinpei => Goes through the events in SR => Eliminates Hiruko 300 years ago => Ushio returns to the past and gives the eye to Shinpei... =>And a new loop begins.

From above, Shinpei have a resist about it but he still affected by causality loop. He have the Haine's right eye but all things he did just a part in event series, which looped many times, which created by Ushio. For more context, it in ch 138 and 139 (it's too long so I can't give them). Besides, after a loop finished, a new timeline without shadows will be created. After that, a new loop begins to create the timeline that doesn't have shadows.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Pedonar so that’s power absorption, the slime thing looks more like biological absorption than anything. Wouldn’t really help with layered hax when it’s a different type of absorption being used.

@Flashlight237 that doesn’t sound like layered time hax, plus being type 1 Acausal wouldn’t really mean you’re resistant to time hax, at best it would be affecting someone who’s a type 1 Acausal.

@Wikisource thanks, now I can see the layered hax here.

 

[Pedonar]

@Pedonar so that’s power absorption, the slime thing looks more like biological absorption than anything. Wouldn’t really help with layered hax when it’s a different type of absorption being used.

How is it different when all three use the same method, and also they get their power from the same being?

 

[Theglassman12]

The slime is a very different form of absorption, that being biological since it absorbs the mass of the targets, the fishes just absorb the powers specifically, which isn’t the same. Also them being from the same being doesn’t really do anything for layered hax here.

 

[Pedonar]

The slime is a very different form of absorption, that being biological since it absorbs the mass of the targets, the fishes just absorb the powers specifically, which isn’t the same. Also them being from the same being doesn’t really do anything for layered hax here.

I don’t know why you keep mentioning the fishes when I already explained that their ability to absorb power is not even related to the fishes

Its just an ability that got absorbed and has nothing to do with absorption

 

[Theglassman12]

That’s still power absorption, that still backs up what I said. This wouldn’t be layered hax when it’s two different abilities.

 

[Pedonar]

That’s still power absorption, that still backs up what I said. This wouldn’t be layered hax when it’s two different abilities.

And how does it back up what you say?

It’s literally the same: a guy was reincarnated as a slime with a skill that allows him to absorb any power he eats.

And the main character and the manticore have the same skill which anything they eat will turn into nothingness and get saved into his dimensional storage which is inside their bodies

Both can use the body characteristics and magical abilities of what they consume.

So whats the difference i don't get it?

 

[Flashlight237]

@Flashlight237 that doesn’t sound like layered time hax, plus being type 1 Acausal wouldn’t really mean you’re resistant to time hax, at best it would be affecting someone who’s a type 1 Acausal.

Yeah, you're right. It's more like clear-cut this bolded part than anything else.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Pedonar

anything they eat will turn into nothingness and get saved into his dimensional storage which is inside their bodies

You got the scans for these? Because none of the scans you posted remotely mention this.

 

[Mizuki67]

I got a question for layers. Like let's say if there are characters that are acausal 1 and 4 but they are still bounded by some Laws, Causality or Time. Will that be acausality layer ?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I got a question for layers. Like let's say if there are characters that are acausal 1 and 4 but they are still bounded by Causality or Time. Will that be acausality layer ?

An acausal bound by causality/time doesn't sound like an acausal at all to me

Now, if someone uses Causality Manipulation, for example - and let's say it initially doesn't work on the Acausal but then they improve it further so it can affect them despite their acausality - that person would have layered Causality Manipulation

 

[Mizuki67]

An acausal bound by causality/time doesn't sound like an acausal at all to me

I think i worded it wrongly. They are still acausal but they have to follow some rules of the world, and regardless of that they are still not bounded by laws and causality which included time which is strange , and God created this whole system to govern the world

I feel like the layered causality manipulation make sense doe. However I heard that we do have such a thing called higher degree acausality 4 where you could only get it if they can transcend acausality characters or create a law binding them but then we also have God governing over every existence eventhough we have characters that has manage to transcend the system before, and they still could not be at the level of God where it is completely free from it. This would not be type 5 and I believe the requirements for it is too strict

 

[Pedonar]

@Pedonar

You got the scans for these? Because none of the scans you posted remotely mention this.

Here

 

[Pedonar]

Light and darkness abilities can be layered or not ?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Mizuki67 thats not now layering works, being able to affect an Acausal is just you being able to affect them with hax despite their unconventional resistance.

@Pedonar thank you, I can see the layered hax here.

 

[Antoniofer]

Light and darkness abilities can be layered or not ?

Light and Darkness as form of controlling luminosity? not standard considering that is a physical measure. Now, these forms of manipulation are often associated with other kinds of hax which can be layered.