• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

Acausality Layers
Baseline : Elemental Magic is Acausal Type 4 ability
Baseline Negation : Anti-magic prevents the use of magic, thus preventing any attempt to overwrite those laws
1 Layer resistance : Anti-magic can be resisted by multi-layered barrier
1 Layer negation : Holy field which works on beings that can resist Anti-magic, and prevents the usage of magic or magic-related things as they work on different laws than the natural laws of the world, but allows the usage of Spirit magic because it works on the same principle as the natural laws
1 Layer resistance : Ultimate Skill are unaffected by anything lower than themselves, or something that is not on the level of an Ultimate skill, meaning they are unaffected by Holy Field
2 Layer negation : Magic like disintegration works and can harm Ultimate skill user, later confirmed here, despite its user not being an Ultimate skill user him/herself

Soul Hax Layers
 
Last edited:
Layers resistances or abstractions for Rider power
The more power of Rider that a form attain, the harder it takes to hax them. (1 rider power per layer)

It seems like Zi-O II doesn't just predict the future, but might even shape distant futures. I can understand Tsukuyomi's fear of such a terrifying power that transcends human understanding. On the other hand, while the regular cast members talk about being warriors, it's understandable that Gates hesitates.

As the regular cast hesitates, their greatest rival emerges: Another Zi-O.

A rider's power against another rider's power. For instance, Another Build was defeated by Zi-O, who wielded the power of Build. With Zi-O and Build combined, the strength of two riders, Another Build didn't stand a chance. Furthermore, Zi-O evolves into Zi-O II, essentially possessing the power of more than one rider. Even without the power of legends, Zi-O can defeat most enemies. Unbeatable!

If there's a rider who can defeat Zi-O, it would be Another Zi-O, possessing the same power as the current Zi-O. Truly unbeatable!

On the other hand, Geiz, who has recently gained a reputation for being easily defeated, might surpass Zi-O if he evolves into Geiz Revive, according to White Woz. But is that really the case?!

(Responsibility for text: Shinichiro Shirakura)

Zi-O W armor (Combination of Kamen Rider W and Zi-O) was able to withstand Eternal's power nullification abilities that should work on W power.
Zi-O Trinity (Combination of Kamen Rider Zi-O, Geiz, Woz/Black) is able to break through Woz (White)'s Note Plot and Null while none of them alone can do it, not even with Zi-O Decade Armor (Combination of Kamen Rider Zi-O and Decade) that possess Decade's Resistance to Plot and Null. The same can be said to Grand Zi-O which is accumulation of Zi-O and 19 other Riders powers.
 
I know this has nothing to do with the topic, and I'm sorry about that, but I would like to ask a question.

Madness Manipulation type 3 capable of affecting AE1 even without affect feats?

For example: A character tries to use Madness Manipulation type 3 on something with AE1 in CM1, if Madness Manipulation doesn't have feats of interacting/affecting CM1, will it affect it? Or do you need a feat to prove that it affects CM1?
 
Dog3352 said:
I know this has nothing to do with the topic, and I'm sorry about that, but I would like to ask a question.

Madness Manipulation type 3 capable of affecting AE1 even without affect feats?

For example: A character tries to use Madness Manipulation type 3 on something with AE1 in CM1, if Madness Manipulation doesn't have feats of interacting/affecting CM1, will it affect it? Or do you need a feat to prove that it affects CM1?
Click to expand...
If the madness hax is 5-D and the guy with AE is only 4-D then it will work
 
Dog3352 said:
I know this has nothing to do with the topic, and I'm sorry about that, but I would like to ask a question.

Madness Manipulation type 3 capable of affecting AE1 even without affect feats?

For example: A character tries to use Madness Manipulation type 3 on something with AE1 in CM1, if Madness Manipulation doesn't have feats of interacting/affecting CM1, will it affect it? Or do you need a feat to prove that it affects CM1?
Click to expand...
if they are the same dimensionality then no
 
@Astral_Trinity439 What part of this is in anyway shape or form acausality layers? None of this makes any sense, just sounds like another "layered abstract existence" thing to push for which I don't see here at all. Same with soul hax as I'm not really seeing much here to argue soul hax is resisted with the skill users.

@Dog3352 Ask this somewhere else, this isn't the thread for these kinds of questions.

@Omazio2019 Your text doesn't really tell me much on layers, just that more kamen rider power makes them stronger, which isn't enough.

@SatellaTheWoE the scan's a bit too vague, anything else that implies this is actual timestop?
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Omazio2019 Your text doesn't really tell me much on layers, just that more kamen rider power makes them stronger, which isn't enough.
Click to expand...
That not really the case since in Grand Zi-O vs Ohma Zi-O, Drive who's resisted to Time Manipulation and Layered History rewritten was empowered by Ohma Zi-O to the level of Grand Zi-O (the power of 19 Riders power including Drive) but yet he couldn't survive after the History rewritten by Another Zi-O II while Sougo with the power of Grand Zi-O did so this is not just based on "resistance thanks to being greater in power". Also Woz's future note does not seem to able manipulate Zi-O II who attain lot of Rider powers in the TV until the novel that he's lost almost the power.
A rider's power against another rider's power. For instance, Another Build was defeated by Zi-O, who wielded the power of Build. With Zi-O and Build combined, the strength of two riders, Another Build didn't stand a chance. Furthermore, Zi-O evolves into Zi-O II, essentially possessing the power of more than one rider. Even without the power of legends, Zi-O can defeat most enemies. Unbeatable!
Click to expand...
However, without Geiz-kun, it is impossible to become Kamen Rider Zi-O Trinity, and Grand Zi-O's power is a combination of Zi-O Ridewatch and 19 Rider's Ridewatch which the New Demon King has not yet obtained. Inevitably, his fighting form is limited to Kamen Rider Zi-O and Kamen Rider Zi-O II.
Click to expand...
 
Theglassman12 said:
@SatellaTheWoE the scan's a bit too vague, anything else that implies this is actual timestop?
Click to expand...
Regulus's ability is literally called the stillness of an object's time/Time Stop
Aside from that it already has been accepted as Time Stop on his profile

Time Stop, Durability Negation, Invulnerability, and Acausality (Type 4; As the time of Regulus' body is stopped, Regulus cannot experience change, meaning he cannot get injured or even get wet in water,[6] and it allows him to ignore all the rules of the world itself.[2] Regulus can stop time for all sorts of objects[6]. With the time of an object stopped it won't experience change; not getting injured, not getting wet etc. This extends beyond the physical, as Shamak which manipulates the senses[7] doesn't work on him, and Regulus was fine interacting with[7] Sirius, whose Authority works just by hearing her voice, seeing her, or being in her presence. Sirius authority works on the soul itself, and brainwashes others. The objects he throws such as dirt or water has their time stopped, and thus can't be stopped by the things they hit, simply passing through, regardless of how durable they are[6]),
Click to expand...
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Astral_Trinity439 What part of this is in anyway shape or form acausality layers?
Click to expand...
Elemental magic itself isn't even acausal in the first place, he made a crt but his arguments have been debunked so the layering he mentioned is out of the question anyway.
Theglassman12 said:
Same with soul hax as I'm not really seeing much here to argue soul hax is resisted with the skill users.
Click to expand...
But still, Mariabell's "Greedy One" must have one layer of soul manipulation.
These all fueled Mariabell's power: her Unique Skill 'Greedy One (Greed)'. The Unique Skill 'Greedy One' originated from the seven original sins of man. It belonged to the Skill type known as the 'Deadly Sins'. These were a special presence even among Unique Skills, as they represented the desire of their users. The users' emotions and wishes manifested in the form of their Skills. In fact- Mariabell was born to be the strongest among the Rosso. The power to dominate human desire-that was the ability of the 'Greedy One'. She could see through people's desires. The greater their desires were, the easier they could be manipulated. Everyone had his desire, and once she stimulated it, he would dance to Mariabell's score. Starting from people around her, she gradually increased the number of pawns she owned.
Click to expand...
Unique Skills are often etched onto one's soul, you are no exception; your Skill is deeply imprinted upon it." "Huh, that's the first time I've heard of that, so what?" "Hmm, during the meeting just now, many councilors were corrupted by their 'desire"." "Oh..." "Those 'desires' were forcibly implanted, some Skills can have an influence on one's soul, so I assume they must have been affected." "......" "Glenda, you were also affected." "What do you mean?" "Luckily you had your Unique Skill protecting your soul, so it wasn't corrupted completely."
Click to expand...
Mariabell's Greedy One was even able to corrupt the soul of Glenda to some level, who was able to resist baseline soul manipulation with her unique ability.

Additionally, Ultimate Skill users gain one layered resistance for resisting unique skills.
Lower-level skills simply didn't work on those who possessed ultimate skills. All the natural laws that ruled this world were nothing more than unique cases to them; they could easily nullify any magi- cal attempt to cloud their minds.
Click to expand...
As a result, there should be such a layering.

•Unique skills are often etched onto the soul, and protect it from influence[16] (baseline resistance)
•Greedy One heavily utilizes the user's soul and can affect the target souls directly (1 layer)
•Ultimate Skill users unaffected by Mariabell's Unique Skill ability (1 layer resistance)
 
Just curious, but is simple statements of superior hax counts as layers? Like if a sword can cut souls, but is stated to be inferior to a weapon that serves the same purpose, would that weapon have a layer above the sword?
 
RanaProGamer said:
Just curious, but is simple statements of superior hax counts as layers? Like if a sword can cut souls, but is stated to be inferior to a weapon that serves the same purpose, would that weapon have a layer above the sword?
Click to expand...
No, it'd be like an in-between layer

Baseline resistances don't cut it, but a layer still dumps all over it.
 
CodeCCLL said:
Elemental magic itself isn't even acausal in the first place, he made a crt but his arguments have been debunked so the layering he mentioned is out of the question anyway
Click to expand...
I made it before it was rejected, so I didn't remove it.
Theglassman12 said:
your scan repeated twice, not really seeing the layered hax there.
Click to expand...
Basically, in terms of layers
Glenda's soul is protected by her unique skill, giving her baseline resistance, yet Mariabell could still effect her soul, although, as it is implied at the last line, "Not completely". Still, the fact that it could still effect someone that should have had a resistance to soul manip, even if only a little, should be enough to warrant a layer

Because as far as I remember, things like Soul hax aren't treated the same as Fire hax in general [where you can overcome resistance with a higher temp]

Although, if its still not enough, another example of resistance for Unique skill users would be, basically, Otherworlders are similar to Unique skill users in that they have a strong soul, enough to withstand the stress of summoning process, that drags a person across different realms, where this process can dissolve a normal person's Soul midways, yet an otherworlder can withstand it
 
It still states that the soul was still protected so I don't see how that can be layered hax if they weren't soul haxed in the first place.
 
The main is that even tho it was protected, Mariabell still managed to somewhat effect it
"Glenda, you were also affected." "What do you mean?" "Luckily you had your Unique Skill Protecting your soul, so it wasn't corrupted completely."
Click to expand...
meaning it was still corrupted somewhat
 
So a limited resistance, not really sure I could see that as an outright layer tbh.
 
Aight, proposing layered mind hax for game Naruto and Sasuke now that I have my laptop back

In Ultimate Ninja 2, Kabuto is able to mind control multiple shinobi, including Naruto, using Gedo Seal: Confusion. After Naruto's fight with Sakura, Naruto is able to eventually break out of it without the use of Gedo Seal: Release which Tsunade used to undo the mind control. (1 layer)

In Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3, Shinga is able to mind control Naruto with his Jibakugan despite Naruto previously resisting Gedo Seal: Release, but by using KN0 Naruto is able to break out of it. Naruto then outright resists Shinga's second attempt at mind controlling him immediately. Sasuke with his 3T Sharingan can also resist the Jibakugan. (1 layer)

The 3T Sharingan's resistance can be broken through with Mangekyo Sharingan, as seen when Itachi was able to put Kakashi under Tsukuyomi despite the 3T Sharingan being able to resist the Jibakugan. (1 layer)

In Storm Connections, Naruto is mind controlled by the Engraved Tsukuyomi despite his previous 2 resistance feats, Sasuke with his Rinnegan is able to easily resist this (1 layer)

So that's 3 layers of mind hax for Sasuke, 2 layers of mind hax resistance for Naruto and 3 layers of mind hax resistance for Sasuke
 
Last edited:
Hello do I need to go through this thread to give layers to the new Profile?

I have a Character that can play Harps and manipulate/hear the melodies of people allowing her to control them.
and Mugen was able to resist it

(Niyon can tune his Melody[2] which is capable of changing, reading, and slightly controlling someone's mind[3], emotion[4], and morality[5] or Comatose them to outright kill them[6] by completely cutting the pulse or their heartbeat. and was unable to fully control or affect[7] it in any way anymore when his rage fully awakens[8] even though Niyon is capable of discerning the melody of all Nine Realm Harp's previous users[9] and can lead an Orchestra to fully tune[10] Primal beast of Arte's Melody

My thoughts are that. Regular humans have no resistance. 0 layer
But Primal beasts can resist it and are 4 dimensional. (1 Layer 4D)
Mugen when unleashed (2Layer 4D)
Although

There is also this which is a 7D power being present in his Soul
Soul Manipulation (His mind and Soul also possessed the same power[11] as his physical self with the boundary that people risk being destroyed while entering his mind)
which drives people away or knocks them out and since Soul and Mind are linked
Do I just Grant Mugen 7D dimension resistance to Soul and Mind hax with the reasoning of the power also present in his soul and mind or just 2-layer resistance in 4D
 
Okay, so I am currently sandboxing the characters of the verse, but here's a weird case of layered hax. See, in the Dropkick on my Devil! series, there's this character called Medusa. Medusa normally does this if you look at her:



The entire main cast hangs out with and converses with Medusa normally, therefore they resist Medusa's petrification. In Yurine's case, she wears a bracelet that allows her to resist the effects of Medusa's abilities.

However, when Medusa enters the Medusa High state, her Petrification ability switches out with a Madness-inducing ability (yes, I said madness; no sane person would happily have themselves killed and have their organs sold off) that bypasses the resistances the cast has to Medusa's abilities.:





Yurine resists the Medusa High's effects thanks to the exact same bracelet she wore.

While I don't think either of Medusa's abilities are layered, Yurine's bracelet DO provide layered resistances to Medusa's abilities based on how it handled Medusa's normal state and the Medusa High. Essentially, the bracelet resists abilities that bypass the resistances everyone else has to Medusa's abilities.
 
Last edited:
Healing and Holy Manipulation

Baseline : Based on the Magic and Skills Page, we currently have this Holy Type Magic that can heaI someone
Click to expand...
Baseline Resistance : Despite how weird it is for a character to have resistance to Healing, Hinata resists Healing due to her Passive Magicule Resistance[17][45]
1 layer : Existing on the same page just below, we have this as well :
Click to expand...

Purification

Baseline : We have this in the explanation page :
Click to expand...
Baseline Resistance : Spiritual lifeforms resist Holy or Demonic Attacks, proven by the fact that Spirit Magic is derived from Spirits is unaffected by Holy Field, Demon lords are Spiritual lifeforms
1 layer :
Click to expand...
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Omazio2019 Yeah that's still not really telling me that it's 19 layers with each kamen rider amp.
Click to expand...
Continue with this. As I said before, it's difficult for those with lesser Rider power to hax those with more Rider power, Zi-O W armor resists Eternal, Trinity (Zi-O + Geiz + Woz) to Future Note,... in another case is Zi-O II and Another Zi-O, Zi-O II with many others Rider powers (the number is 8 to that time) can withstand Another Rider attacks plus destroying them but that can't help him have much chance again Another Zi-O who possessing the same amount of Riders power yet Another Zi-O can't do anything to him either for they are equivalent (This situation remains the same even when they evolve to Grand Zi-O and Another Zi-O II, Sougo as Grand Zi-O resists Another Zi-O II time haxes as said above), in order to defeat Zi-O II, he needs to gain the power of one another rider to break out of the balance. This is leading to each rider powers will amp 1 layer.
 
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Healing and Holy Manipulation
Click to expand...
In this case, Hinata is innately resistant to magic as a high-level magic-born, but extra her body passively dissambles/nullificate the magicules, so I think we should treat this as a passive powernull rather than resistance to healing, since regeneration is out of the question since the magicules from which the regeneration potion was formed in the first place are dissambles, so it makes more sense to say that holy healing magic resists the passive powernull.
Astral_Trinity439 said:
Demon lords are Spiritual lifeforms
Click to expand...
A minor addition: Yes, all Demon Lords are Spiritual Lifeforms, but there is no special requirement to be a Spiritual Lifeform to become a Demon Lord.
 
CodeCCLL said:
In this case, Hinata is innately resistant to magic as a high-level magic-born, but extra her body passively dissambles/nullificate the magicules, so I think we should treat this as a passive powernull rather than resistance to healing, since regeneration is out of the question since the magicules from which the regeneration potion was formed in the first place are dissambles, so it makes more sense to say that holy healing magic resists the passive powernull.
Click to expand...

I disagree with power null and the way you put it it doesnt feel right with me. This has something to do with purification instead of power null being involved here. There is no restriction to any skills mentioned here like what the Holy Field does, and we know that holy magic also purifies magicules. Her passive resistance also doesnt allow anything that is not holy by canceling out their affects implying that her body is covered up in holy magic. Just like the ice coffin, the ice coffin is filled with so much holy energy so much that even Luminus felt burned while touching it. You can read the scans above for this information
 
Last edited:
Mizuki67 said:
I disagree with power null and the way you put it it doesnt feel right with me. This has something to do with purification instead of power null being involved here. There is no restriction to any skills mentioned here like what the Holy Field does, and we know that holy magic also purifies magicules. Her passive resistance also doesnt allow anything that is not holy by canceling out their affects implying that her body is covered up in holy magic. Just like the ice coffin, the ice coffin is filled with so much holy energy so much that even Luminus felt burned while touching it. You can read the scans above for this information
Click to expand...
  • Magic Nullification (Her body will automatically disintegrate magicules, which nullifies any magic on her)
Since it was listed as powernull in addition to passive purification in its profile, I commented thinking it was powernull and there is nothing we can define as passive resistance here, this should already be passive purification + magic resistance or also powernull as listed in the profile. Regardless, it doesn't make sense to list this as layered healing.
 
CodeCCLL said:
  • Magic Nullification (Her body will automatically disintegrate magicules, which nullifies any magic on her)
Since it was listed as powernull in addition to passive purification in its profile, I commented thinking it was powernull and there is nothing we can define as passive resistance here, this should already be passive purification + magic resistance or also powernull as listed in the profile. Regardless, it doesn't make sense to list this as layered healing.
Click to expand...
If we assume it is magic resistance, that by itself means healing potion not working on Hinata is due to her resisting its effect, since the Healing potion is still just magicule-made
layered Healing comes from that
 
She's not resisting the effect. she's dismantling the magicule within the potion rendering it null as they are no longer assembled as a healing potion and just become pure magicules.

There is a reason why Holy Magic is needed to heal if she has resistance to healing that would also include any form of healing and not just magicule based healing
 
Layers for Tensura

Power Destruction
Click to expand...
It erased Gluttony which is a Unique Skill and Beelzebuth which is an Ultimate Skill and it works on Spirit Particles that ignore Space and Time[13][14][15][16], and they can penetrate one's Core made of Information Particles.[17]. A core or heart is defined as the fundamental information, skills, and conceptual self of an individual

Skill user has unconventional resistance to:
Power Destruction (Skills are inscribed into the soul which resists any outside interference, like if someone attempts to erase, steal, absorb or seperate skills it would not work [1])- Volume 2, Chapter 1 (Light novel)

Now incase you think this is just because of Soul Inteference which would mean interacting with Information. The answer is not always true since Disintegration abilities does not always reach and destroy the soul in order for it to work like in certain cases we have also seen Disintegration magic like Melt Slash being able to destroy a skill when the skill is being used in the middle of a disintegration attack and this works on both Unique Skills and Ultimate Skills .

So, why is it layered ? Good question because this was further supported by the fact that erasing skill etched to the soul isn't possible - Volume 2, Chapter 1 (Light novel) and another point to make is that Disintegration Magic only has Information Type 2 mainly because they can reach the core and hit the soul . Therefore, it is logical to assume that this has something to do with a layer of Power Destruction and Information Type 2 being involved here because Disintegration magic can also work by not reaching the soul or the core and they can destroy Skills etched to the target soul whenever they aim to attack the skill (which is not suppose to be possible)

We also have another reason for a layer of Power Absorption like Hinata using her Unique Skill Usurper to steal and and seize skills and spirits from opponents- Volume 4, Epilogue because of an ability she have , and all Ultimate Skill users can resist this, and Unique Skill can also be used against other Unique Skill users which further supports this statement
Click to expand...
Conclusion: 1 layer of Power Destruction for Disintegration users and 1 layer of Power Absorption for Hinata. +1 layer for Unique Skills if they can bypass resistance. That is all
 
Last edited:
RanaProGamer said:
Aight, proposing layered mind hax for game Naruto and Sasuke now that I have my laptop back

In Ultimate Ninja 2, Kabuto is able to mind control multiple shinobi, including Naruto, using Gedo Seal: Confusion. After Naruto's fight with Sakura, Naruto is able to eventually break out of it without the use of Gedo Seal: Release which Tsunade used to undo the mind control. (1 layer)

In Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3, Shinga is able to mind control Naruto with his Jibakugan despite Naruto previously resisting Gedo Seal: Release, but by using KN0 Naruto is able to break out of it. Naruto then outright resists Shinga's second attempt at mind controlling him immediately. Sasuke with his 3T Sharingan can also resist the Jibakugan. (1 layer)

The 3T Sharingan's resistance can be broken through with Mangekyo Sharingan, as seen when Itachi was able to put Kakashi under Tsukuyomi despite the 3T Sharingan being able to resist the Jibakugan. (1 layer)

In Storm Connections, Naruto is mind controlled by the Engraved Tsukuyomi despite his previous 2 resistance feats, Sasuke with his Rinnegan is able to easily resist this (1 layer)

So that's 3 layers of mind hax for Sasuke, 2 layers of mind hax resistance for Naruto and 3 layers of mind hax resistance for Sasuke
Click to expand...
Bump
 
Alright, time to get some of this out of the way.
@Pedonar not really seeing the layered stuff, you mostly explained the resistance to the slime powers but that's it.

@RanaProGamer first thing doesn't remotely show resistance, just that sakura had to knock naruto out of the control, so that wouldn't really mean much. The rest just shows baseline resistance to 1 layer of hax/resistance.

@TheGreatJedi13 the primal beasts resisting it wouldn't be layered hax, just baseline resistance, though admittedly I can't exactly see where the part of the primals are affected here so any pointers to where it's said and I can see 1 layer. Idk what you're talking about with the 7-D soul stuff so some elaboration would help.

@Flashlight237 I'm not really seeing layered hax here. We just have petrification resistance and mind control resistance, which are two separate abilities so this wouldnt constitute as layered hax.

@Omazio2019 that sounds a bit more like a weakness gimmick of countering a KR ability with another KR ability. It looks more like that Omazio just grants other riders resistance to other characters powers.

@Astral_Trinity439 Not really seeing the layers here.

@Wikisource you copied the corrosion stuff twice, also where's the layered stuff for the causality/time stuff?

@Mizuki67 looks fine I suppose.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Makai641001
Mid layers for a Mid show: NNT thread
Replies
11
Views
1K
Makai641001
Makai641001
Powernull and hax layer question
Replies
13
Views
1K
Digital_Franz
Digital_Franz
BreezeHM
[Martial Peak] Hax Layer CRT
Replies
12
Views
3K
Elizhaa
Elizhaa
PonePoster
Ponies Have LAYERS! - MLP hax layer CRT (with an ability addition)
Replies
18
Views
2K
PonePoster
PonePoster
Spicy78
A Question About BIG Layering
Replies
2
Views
735
Spicy78
Spicy78
Back
Top