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We've already said before for people to not spontaneously post any Sonic stuff given that the supporters are currently working this stuff out. It just makes things needlessly more complicated
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Hax Layer Evaluation Thread
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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I didn't make that post, it was Brogeefrong in page 5,I was just bumping it cause I thought that this was already accepted but wasn't added to the OP yet.
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I know, and we told Brogeefrong the same thing. There's no need to bump it
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Astral_Trinity439
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Apologies, I've added another scan for [Analysis Magic].
The layers : Magic -> Unique skill users resist it -> Unique skill analysis -> Ultimate skills resist it
Alright, will change them
highlighted the scan which I fixed in white bold, double-checked the others, and the rest of the links are working fine from my side so left them as they are.
alright
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Some users told me that it probably resistance to power nullification but I want to be sure.
In the spook's series, the moonlight possess the ability to show the truth of things, so under it it's impossible to mantain any illusion or false eppearance spell.
However that character Alice Deane can keep illusion under the moonlight like it's nothing, several character call her out on this like here:
So is it resistance to power nullification, an additional layer or something else entirely?
In the spook's series, the moonlight possess the ability to show the truth of things, so under it it's impossible to mantain any illusion or false eppearance spell.
However that character Alice Deane can keep illusion under the moonlight like it's nothing, several character call her out on this like here:
"Appalled, I pulled away from her. 'Moonlight shows the truth of things, you know that, Alice. It's one of the things you told me when we first met. So is that what I've just seen? What you really are? Have I seen the truth?'"
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That’s just baseline resistance, not layered hax.
Astral_Trinity439
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Don't know if I should make a CRT, or post it here.
But yea, I made this blog for What a Beautiful Series, covering the abilities that came to mind that's layered.
This page on Kikai and Critter is also pretty important for it. Don't really consider this the final version for the blog or the Cracking Being page, as that depends on input from here.
Most of it is straightforward, it's when we get into the immunity territory that it becomes controversial imo. For 1 does immunity exist? If so, how far does the immunity extend.
A previous thread which touched on this had some opposition to Critters being immune to Cracking.
Anyway lets try and sort this out.
I see this going 1 of 3 ways when it comes to immunity
Of course I guess a 4th option exists, which is that no immunity at all exists, though I find that highly unlikely as we know for a fact things like Kikai not having a life.
But yea, I made this blog for What a Beautiful Series, covering the abilities that came to mind that's layered.
This page on Kikai and Critter is also pretty important for it. Don't really consider this the final version for the blog or the Cracking Being page, as that depends on input from here.
Most of it is straightforward, it's when we get into the immunity territory that it becomes controversial imo. For 1 does immunity exist? If so, how far does the immunity extend.
A previous thread which touched on this had some opposition to Critters being immune to Cracking.
Anyway lets try and sort this out.
I see this going 1 of 3 ways when it comes to immunity
- Kikai and Critters are only immune to stuff they explicitly are stated to not have such as a life or soul. Everything else is just resistance
- Kikai, are immune to everything including the abilities of Critters, because they are outright stated to be immune to numerous stuff, and are the counter to Critters, thus should be immune to generic Critter abilities ie mind and fear hax. This is currently what's accepted on the profiles.
- Same as option 2, but Kikai and Critters are immune even to the abilities of Cracking, as they are outright stated to be invulnerable, and Cracking not applying to them.
Of course I guess a 4th option exists, which is that no immunity at all exists, though I find that highly unlikely as we know for a fact things like Kikai not having a life.
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1 POSSIBLY layer of Durability Negation, Death Manipulation, Corruption, Poison Manipulation, Corrosion Inducement, Possibly Matter Manipulation for all Weeping Blades in Warhammer Fantasy
"This became his folly. Deep in thought, the High King failed to see the shadow which crept silently down the walls behind him. Out of the shadows, Deathmaster Snikch stabbed the High King with three thrice-blessed warpforged knives, cleaving through the great Armour of Skaldour. Thorgrim staggered forward, great stabs of pain coursing through him. As the king fell to his knees, he could see the points of three blades jutting out of his chest. As darkness slowly enveloped his sight, Thorgrim’s last thoughts were for his people. Like a damned fool beardling he had left the door open behind him. There were so many grudges left unanswered. His last thought crystallised with painful clarity – of course, the hateful cowards had stabbed him in the back. Thus the last High King of the Dwarfs was dead, and a portal between worlds opened in its wake. Rats poured through and infiltrated the hidden stairway. On that sorrowful day, Karaz-a-Karak had finally fallen to the rats."
Now, could this be AP? yes and no. Warpstone is very fucky, however, Weeping Blades are only made of a small amount of Warpstone, so the matter manipulation "I go through everything" stuff is only possibly, hence, so is the Layer.
Now why is this a layer? Dwarves resist ALL of that. they innately resist Aethyr Manipulation and they are a baseline resistance to it. AKA, they resist everything under the sun.
"This became his folly. Deep in thought, the High King failed to see the shadow which crept silently down the walls behind him. Out of the shadows, Deathmaster Snikch stabbed the High King with three thrice-blessed warpforged knives, cleaving through the great Armour of Skaldour. Thorgrim staggered forward, great stabs of pain coursing through him. As the king fell to his knees, he could see the points of three blades jutting out of his chest. As darkness slowly enveloped his sight, Thorgrim’s last thoughts were for his people. Like a damned fool beardling he had left the door open behind him. There were so many grudges left unanswered. His last thought crystallised with painful clarity – of course, the hateful cowards had stabbed him in the back. Thus the last High King of the Dwarfs was dead, and a portal between worlds opened in its wake. Rats poured through and infiltrated the hidden stairway. On that sorrowful day, Karaz-a-Karak had finally fallen to the rats."
Now, could this be AP? yes and no. Warpstone is very fucky, however, Weeping Blades are only made of a small amount of Warpstone, so the matter manipulation "I go through everything" stuff is only possibly, hence, so is the Layer.
Now why is this a layer? Dwarves resist ALL of that. they innately resist Aethyr Manipulation and they are a baseline resistance to it. AKA, they resist everything under the sun.
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@Astral_Trinity439 Yeah not exactly seeing the layers here given most of this is just taking the normal magic stuff and extrapolating it onto info analysis and curse stuff.
@Celestial_Pegasus idk if the critters being similar to cracking would add layers to cracking, it would just make them baseline from that alone, though the layers itself is fine.
@DaReaperMan durability negation I wouldn't count that for layered hax since the ability itself is too vague on its own to grant a layered hax or resistance, though the rest is fine.
@Celestial_Pegasus idk if the critters being similar to cracking would add layers to cracking, it would just make them baseline from that alone, though the layers itself is fine.
@DaReaperMan durability negation I wouldn't count that for layered hax since the ability itself is too vague on its own to grant a layered hax or resistance, though the rest is fine.
Astral_Trinity439
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For Info Analysis
Basically, Magic in general is greatly resisted by Unique Skill Users, so, info analysis magic won't work on Unique skill users due to them resisting magic, but than there's Unique skills based on analysis purpose such as Great Sage or Hinata's skill, and Unique Skills work on other Unique skill holders, and all that is resisted by Ultimate skill holders by nature that Ultimate skill users can only be harmed by other Ultimate levels
For Curse stuff
Normal Curse Magic -> Unique Skill resistance -> Lock curse working on Unique skills + Dino's unique skill that can put sleeping curse on other unique skill users -> Ultimate skill resistance -> Ultima's curse which works on Ultimate level beings such as True dragons + Dino's Ultimate version skill
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Well Critters are made up of Cracking, it's their abilities that are similar.
What do you think about immunity? I gave like 4 different options above.
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@Celestial_Pegasus The time hax part I'm not seeing that in the scan for Gii stealing their time. The particles thing I'm not sure on given it could just be some other non-physical form of particles, like particles of information or something. It seems their definition of immunity is a bit different than ours, since we treat immunity as something they literally lack, making haxing them with said ability impossible. It looks more like they're just resistant to any forms of attack, so option 2 might be the better option here.
@Astral_Trinity439 resisting magic, and resisting all forms of magic are two different things, so unless Magic normally has info analysis properties, I'm not seeing it for unique skills. Also again not seeing this being extra layers for either abilities, the best I'm seeing is Ultimate skill users having baseline resistances for curse hax, and just one layer above for that ability.
@Astral_Trinity439 resisting magic, and resisting all forms of magic are two different things, so unless Magic normally has info analysis properties, I'm not seeing it for unique skills. Also again not seeing this being extra layers for either abilities, the best I'm seeing is Ultimate skill users having baseline resistances for curse hax, and just one layer above for that ability.
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Was literally about to bump this, good timing.
Says it right here, that defeating Petrovna requires taking away her present, and it can be done with Porshion's hand.
Also the hand is explicitly stated to take away the present, thus bringing the past.
If we are going with the requirement that they have to lack things, in order to be immune, then that is the first option I presented. We can go with that and get this over with.
Says it right here, that defeating Petrovna requires taking away her present, and it can be done with Porshion's hand.
Also the hand is explicitly stated to take away the present, thus bringing the past.
If we are going with the requirement that they have to lack things, in order to be immune, then that is the first option I presented. We can go with that and get this over with.
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that's fine with me
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So, how does this work for a verse outside the list, do I introduce it here?
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You can do it like I did here
Just list out the reasonings for layers and stuff alongside scans
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@RanaProGamer any verse that has layered hax from prior to the standard revisions needs to have them evaluated here to see if they qualify, though any new verses with them can be evaluated here.
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Aight thanks
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Regulus Corneas gets +1 layer time stop due to being able to affect Reinhard who has timestop resistance (Resistance to: Time Stop (His Divine Blessing of Darkness Nullification nullifies 80% of Yin Magic, thus he resists this ability from Beatrice))
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I added scans btw.
Also should I add about Urizen getting more demonic power for a whole month thanks to the qliphot or nah
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I have a question, if the layers of a cosmology work with a universal energy system of the verse (like DMC), where the character obtains layers having more power than the opponent, would it be necessary to show the character's resistance being overcome, or could I simply say that "character A has 1 layers because he is stronger/much stronger than character B"?
Arkenis
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That's kinda the whole deal with layering I thought? Otherwise we'd end up having ridiculous layers without showing actual resistance. Though if the verse directly treats it as such I could see that being fine.
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This is exactly the problem I'm thinking about, if a cosmology works in such a way and the layers are accepted just because "character A is stronger than character B", without really needing evidence that he is actually capable of overcoming the resistance, people could say: Weak human<<<<< Average human<<<<< Strong human<<<<< superhuman and so on constantly, and that would be ridiculous without a clear demonstration of the resistance being overcome.
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You would need to do the same as me I think. That is, prove that more power/strenght/magic, is able to bypass resistances (which is why I emphasized it on the blog with several examples)
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Are Bleach supporters putting together their layers, or are they not bothering?
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My main question is, if a cosmology is accepted this way, would one have to show evidence (show one overcoming the other's resistance) that for example "weak human<<<<< average human<<<<< strong human"?
Or can one simply do something like "weak human<<<< average human<<<< strong human<<<< superhumans and so on constantly" without evidence that one is actually capable of overcoming each other's resistance?
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You need evidence, the new standard requires such to be the case, so just having a scaling chain won’t cut it.
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@Tony_di_bugalu Now that I got some free time to evaluate, I'll give your blog a looksie.
You've provided more than enough evidence that with an increase in demonic energy, characters are able to fight off demonic powers easily when prior they couldn't. I still disagree with the infinite and countless layers for the demon world with void mundus since it's just taking a general statement of the energy being stronger and pushing it to the extreme without anymore explicit evidence. But I do think the general scaling chain for all the fodder tier demons and the boss demons with the scans to support their increase in demonic power is valid enough with the established evidence that more demonic power can overcome the abilities. The only thing I'm not too fond of is the whole Griffon > Phantom stuff since nothing in the scans really indicate Griffon being stronger, just that he's older unless DMC operates by Supernatural rule where Age=Power. Other than that, everything else with scans is relatively fine. The mid tier scaling you're gonna need to elaborate more with the DMC 3 bosses and some of 4 but the rest is fine.
You've provided more than enough evidence that with an increase in demonic energy, characters are able to fight off demonic powers easily when prior they couldn't. I still disagree with the infinite and countless layers for the demon world with void mundus since it's just taking a general statement of the energy being stronger and pushing it to the extreme without anymore explicit evidence. But I do think the general scaling chain for all the fodder tier demons and the boss demons with the scans to support their increase in demonic power is valid enough with the established evidence that more demonic power can overcome the abilities. The only thing I'm not too fond of is the whole Griffon > Phantom stuff since nothing in the scans really indicate Griffon being stronger, just that he's older unless DMC operates by Supernatural rule where Age=Power. Other than that, everything else with scans is relatively fine. The mid tier scaling you're gonna need to elaborate more with the DMC 3 bosses and some of 4 but the rest is fine.
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Okay, will try to when I have time.
Talking about time thanks for taking time to check my stuff :3
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Yeah, don’t have my laptop on me since I’m out of country, so I’ll compile the feats with the timestamps once I’m back
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bump
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That’s surprising, I assumed Bleach was cleared first. I guess I can ask Arc since he’s the most notable supporter I know
EL_xWatcher1234x
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How many layers does DMC have ?
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