Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

[CloverDragon03]

I got a question for layers. Like let's say if there are characters that are acausal 1 and 4 but they are still bounded by Causality or Time. Will that be acausality layer ?

An acausal bound by causality/time doesn't sound like an acausal at all to me

Now, if someone uses Causality Manipulation, for example - and let's say it initially doesn't work on the Acausal but then they improve it further so it can affect them despite their acausality - that person would have layered Causality Manipulation

 

[Mizuki67]

An acausal bound by causality/time doesn't sound like an acausal at all to me

I think i worded it wrongly. They are still acausal but they have to follow some rules of the world, and regardless of that they are still not bounded by laws and causality which included time which is strange , and God created this whole system to govern the world

I feel like the layered causality manipulation make sense doe. However I heard that we do have such a thing called higher degree acausality 4 where you could only get it if they can transcend acausality characters or create a law binding them but then we also have God governing over every existence eventhough we have characters that has manage to transcend the system before, and they still could not be at the level of God where it is completely free from it. This would not be type 5 and I believe the requirements for it is too strict

 

[Pedonar]

@Pedonar

You got the scans for these? Because none of the scans you posted remotely mention this.

Here

 

[Pedonar]

Light and darkness abilities can be layered or not ?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Mizuki67 thats not now layering works, being able to affect an Acausal is just you being able to affect them with hax despite their unconventional resistance.

@Pedonar thank you, I can see the layered hax here.

 

[Antoniofer]

Light and darkness abilities can be layered or not ?

Light and Darkness as form of controlling luminosity? not standard considering that is a physical measure. Now, these forms of manipulation are often associated with other kinds of hax which can be layered.

 

[CodeCCLL]

thats not now layering works, being able to affect an Acausal is just you being able to affect them with hax despite their unconventional resistance.

Well, there is an "x" character that is not affected by baseline law manipulation. This character "x" is said to be independent of the laws governing fate and the space-time continuum, but the law manipulation of character "y" binds even character "x" to the laws, and character "y" is not affected by the law manipulation of character "z" which has the same level of law manipulation, and there is a character "t" which binds all these characters to the laws it imposes. What should we conclude from this?

 

[Theglassman12]

If they’re all acausals as a result of being outside of the laws, you just list off the fact their law hax can affect type 4 Acausal beings.

 

[CodeCCLL]

If they’re all acausals as a result of being outside of the laws, you just list off the fact their law hax can affect type 4 Acausal beings.

there is an "x" character that is not affected by baseline law manipulation. This character "x" is said to be independent of the laws governing fate and the space-time continuum, but the law manipulation of character "y" binds even character "x" to the laws,

This just explain this point.

and character "y" is not affected by the law manipulation of character "z" which has the same level of law manipulation, and there is a character "t" which binds all these characters to the laws it imposes.

Still, character "y"s acausality type 4, causes to be independent of the laws that can bind users of baseline acausality type 4.

 

[Theglassman12]

that just sounds like more of the same thing, baseline Acausal 4 is still functioning on different laws at the end of the day. You can’t have layered type 4 since that’s just you functioning on other laws as well.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Is this layered time manip?

Spoiler

Characters with immunity to time are able to be frozen in time (There is no difference between other timelines aside from time period so they would have same resistances in frozen worlds)

 

[azontr]

Not here to establish an actual layering chain just yet, but rather, the presence of layers in general for a series that isn't on the wiki yet called "Ragna Crimson".

In the manga, there's an energy source called Silver Aura which freezes Magic. Silver Aura is emitted by, well, Silver, and weapons made of it freeze Dragons, who have Mana in their blood. Just touching Silver can induce a chilling effect, so Dragons don't have to be stabbed with a silver weapon to be frozen (especially since even just magical phenomena such as Wind Magic can be frozen).

Some Dragons aren't affected by this. And then they are (though, in the case of the 2nd Dragon, his Magic was not neutralized, but rather he was simply shaken; my point should be evident). Some Dragons ARE affected by this. And then they aren't. And then, they are. How this can happen when using a Silver Weapon is if you obtain a deeper understanding of Silver, you can polish it, as well as manipulate it in various ways; so, the weapons grow in combat as the wielder does. It's a weird symbiotic relationship, but silver is potentially a manifestation of the planet's will, so it's probably not normal anyways.

My question is, if a Dragon gets frozen by Silver Aura --> Then it doesn't because it evolved or some shit --> Then it does cause the opponent got better, is this an example of a layering thing?

 

[Kachon123]

And then they aren't. And then, they are. How this can happen when using a Silver Weapon is if you obtain a deeper understanding of Silver, you can polish it, as well as manipulate it in various ways; so, the weapons grow in combat as the wielder does. It's a weird symbiotic relationship, but silver is potentially a manifestation of the planet's will, so it's probably not normal anyways.

I think this would definitely count as a layer.

Some Dragons aren't affected by this. And then they are

Not too sure of this because from the scans you've sent it seems like different quantities of silver can be infused into weapons, meaning that the initial bullets the character deflected cold just have a less silver density the one that froze him.

 

[azontr]

Not too sure of this because from the scans you've sent it seems like different quantities of silver can be infused into weapons

That could potentially be the case, and I understand that interpretation. I would argue against that using one of the other scans I posted, where it says that it's not possible to achieve that level of freezing power with just sheer strength, but I digress.

But in cases where the infusing of greater quantities of Aura into a weapon doesn't happen, and rather the characters just get better (such as in the first message you quoted), you would agree that would be a layer, yes?

 

[Kachon123]

But in cases where the infusing of greater quantities of Aura into a weapon doesn't happen, and rather the characters just get better (such as in the first message you quoted), you would agree that would be a layer, yes?

Yes, definitely.

 

[RanaProGamer]

The first one with naruto resisting the genjutsu would be baseline is what I meant, the others upscaling from the naruto stuff would be just one to two layers.

Just wanna clear this up, baseline resistance =/= 1 layer, is that right?

 

[Theglassman12]

@RanaProGamer yes, baseline resistance is baseline resistance, you only get layered hax for affecting someone with a resistance.

@BestMGQScalerEver that sounds more like resistance than immunity but it does look like layered time hax.

@azontr yeah that's a pretty basic explanation of layered hax.

 

[Omazio2019]

@Omazio2019 that sounds a bit more like a weakness gimmick of countering a KR ability with another KR ability. It looks more like that Omazio just grants other riders resistance to other characters powers.

Zi-O was able to defeat the Another Rider because he possessed that Rider power, ex: Zi-O Ex-Aid Armor (= Zi-O + Ex-Aid) > Another Ex-Aid but "flip it around" Zi-O Ex-Aid Armor = Another Zi-O Another Ex-Aid disguise (= Another Zi-O + Another Ex-Aid) > Another Ex-Aid, so that's why Another Zi-O must take one more Rider power to overcome Zi-O II despite that Rider power does not have abilities to resist or counter Zi-O II haxes. The more Rider powers they gain, the greater their haxes upgraded that's reason why Woz's Future is able to hax Zi-O, Woz, Geiz alone but not Zi-O II (when he has at least 8 rider powers to that times), Zi-O trinity (3 rider power combine, Zi-O + Geiz + Woz). Oma Zi-O may have shared a portion of his power and upgraded Drive resistance to time hax (2 layers) like what he did to Tsukuyomi but it didn't save him from Another Zi-O II's time hax (even he's comparable to Grand Zi-O) which comprised of 19 others, yet his time hax is meaningless to Oma Zi-O who has even more powers than him.

 

[RanaProGamer]

Ok, so updating this

In Ultimate Ninja 2, Kabuto is able to mind control multiple shinobi, including Naruto, using Gedo Seal: Confusion. After Naruto's fight with Sakura, Naruto is able to eventually break out of it without the use of Gedo Seal: Release which Tsunade used to undo the mind control. (Baseline)

In Ultimate Ninja Heroes 3, Shinga is able to mind control Naruto with his Jibakugan despite Naruto previously resisting Gedo Seal: Release, but by using KN0 Naruto is able to break out of it. Naruto then outright resists Shinga's second attempt at mind controlling him immediately. Sasuke with his 3T Sharingan can also resist the Jibakugan. (1 layer)

The 3T Sharingan's resistance can be broken through with Mangekyo Sharingan, as seen when Itachi was able to put Kakashi under Tsukuyomi despite the 3T Sharingan being able to resist the Jibakugan. (1 layer)

In Storm Connections, Naruto is mind controlled by the Engraved Tsukuyomi despite his previous 2 resistance feats, Sasuke with his Rinnegan is able to easily resist this (1 layer)

So that's 2 layers of mind hax for Sasuke, 1 layer of mind hax resistance for Naruto and 2 layers of mind hax resistance for Sasuke

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Shamak is a Yin element spell which cuts off a target's senses from the world. The Shamak of a low-level magic user, Subaru, could not have an affect on the Spirit Knight Julius. However the Shamak of a great magician such as Beatrice, who specializes in Yin magic, would work on Julius.

 

[Robo432343]

did GoW lose some of their hax layers from the downgrades?

 

[RanaProGamer]

did GoW lose some of their hax layers from the downgrades?

Not layers, but just lost the abilities in general I think

 

[Flashlight237]

So I'm submitting one for a verse that I had attempted to do calcs for. There's a case for either layered Sleep Manipulation or layered Dream Manipulation, or both depending on how you want to interpret this. The entire second game in the series is exactly that!:


Tlaloc (the main antagonist) is the cause of everything in the entire game, as noted by one of Tlaloc's nightmare sheep appearing in reality in the ending.

So, the way it works is there are two layers...

Reality-->Layer 1 (Tak's dream reality)-->Layer 2 (The Dream World)

In the opening, we see that Tlaloc (who initially played off the guise of a Juju prior to revealing himself after you defeat the Dream Guardian) had Tak trapped in The Dream World (Layer 2) for 16 days. Tak wouldn't get out of the Dream World until he did Tlaloc's favor the first time, after which we see Tak's first awakening in what is supposed to be reality, but is actually Layer 1 of the dream. A good chunk of the game involves Tak going between Layers 1 and 2, and it would be shown that Moon Juju (pretty much the big Juju that all the tribes seek the favor of) couldn't really last long in Layer 2 before she had to go away. Tak would later wake up in reality after, again, 16 days in the ending of the game, with this reality legitimately being reality.

 

[Kachon123]

TAK SWEEP

 

[Nierre]

bro Tak????? What a throwback

 

[Bobsican]

So I'm submitting one for a verse that I had attempted to do calcs for. There's a case for either layered Sleep Manipulation or layered Dream Manipulation, or both depending on how you want to interpret this. The entire second game in the series is exactly that!:


Tlaloc (the main antagonist) is the cause of everything in the entire game, as noted by one of Tlaloc's nightmare sheep appearing in reality in the ending.

So, the way it works is there are two layers...

Reality-->Layer 1 (Tak's dream reality)-->Layer 2 (The Dream World)

In the opening, we see that Tlaloc (who initially played off the guise of a Juju prior to revealing himself after you defeat the Dream Guardian) had Tak trapped in The Dream World (Layer 2) for 16 days. Tak wouldn't get out of the Dream World until he did Tlaloc's favor the first time, after which we see Tak's first awakening in what is supposed to be reality, but is actually Layer 1 of the dream. A good chunk of the game involves Tak going between Layers 1 and 2, and it would be shown that Moon Juju (pretty much the big Juju that all the tribes seek the favor of) couldn't really last long in Layer 2 before she had to go away. Tak would later wake up in reality after, again, 16 days in the ending of the game, with this reality legitimately being reality.

Uh... I think this is talking about qualitative layers, not hax layers, that'd deserve its own separate thread, this'd be as much of a hax layer as the difference of a 3-D to a 4-D ability (tier 11 BFR isn't unheard of), unless that kind of stuff is also covered here.

 

[Flashlight237]

Uh... I think this is talking about qualitative layers, not hax layers, that'd deserve its own separate thread, this'd be as much of a hax layer as the difference of a 3-D to a 4-D ability (tier 11 BFR isn't unheard of), unless that kind of stuff is also covered here.

Err, the OP listed layers as in hax layers (ex. 1 layer of Existence Erasure for Epic Battle Fantasy, 5-6 layers of magic for Bastard!!!). A qualitative layer is like 4-D being above 3-D. What are ye on about?

 

[Bobsican]

Your proposed stuff has more to do with dreams within dreams than someone resisting dream manip, then being overwhelmed anyways, hence why it'd fall as more a qualitatively-layered ability than a hax layer per-say.