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Green lantern (hal Jordan) CRT.

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LordTracer said:
If he was giving Phantom Stranger trouble, then he’s definitely a 2-C, but Crispus Allen Spectre is already a 2-C without the ring, and I don’t see why he’d get weaker.
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So yeah, we can use that then. And maybe use Prime's as a supporting feat.
 
Yeah but he still made him hurt in the second panel. Look at the construct in that panel. And HAL still survived a punch from him. And angry one at that too.

Unless he can reduce his power levels at will, similarly to Captain Atom, it wouldn't make sense for a 4-B character to survive a hit like that.

Which is why I believe he should get a downgrade or we use this as a supporting feat and use the Allen one instead
 
Also iirc, in Ion #4 and #5, Hal was able to fight a guy who could fight with Ion Kyle Rayner.
 
"Varied up to 4B normally, 2C at peak". Right now we are using his feat from Blackest Night against Black Lantern Spectre. And discussing whether to use the Superboy Prime feat from Sinestro Corps War or not.
 
Superboy-Prime in Sinestro Corps War only scales with Ion bonded with Sodam Yat, way above the Guardians and the Anti-Monitor.
 
And the wiki treats that arc Prime and Ion as 2C so...

Which is why I said we need to downgrade both in that case. Or change the justification for Ion. I remember bringing up this issue twice on the old forum but it never got applied.
 
Firestorm808 said:
What's the scaling chain being proposed?
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It’s not really a scaling chain, because nobody would scale to Hal’s 2-C key. But basically the feats in favor of it would be:
  • Hal defeating Krona
  • Taking a punch from Superboy-Prime and then harming him
  • Fighting and harming Black Lantern Spectre (Crispus Allen).

And there’s possibly more feats.
 
As described on Hal's profile, Krona's durability didn't scale to the entities.

We shouldn't scale Hal to Superboy from 1 punch when lower tier characters were drawing blood from Superboy earlier in the event.
 
Also I just remembered something kinda important. The GLs didn’t get retconned from COIE lol. In Green Lantern Corps #215, Hal directly references the Crisis, and in another issue they reference Hal’s resignation from the Corps, which was a Pre-Crisis event.
 
Firestorm808 said:
As described on Hal's profile, Krona's durability didn't scale to the entities.

We shouldn't scale Hal to Superboy from 1 punch when lower tier characters were drawing blood from Superboy earlier in the event.
Click to expand...
Firestorm808 said:
The entities were not bonded inside his body like how Ion or Parallax did with Hal and Kyle.
Click to expand...
Firestorm808 said:
If you read the comic, you will see that the entities are on chain leashes.
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Firestorm makes sense to me. Thank you for helping out.
 
Honestly, I agree with not using the War of the Lanterns story. From what I vaguely remember, a lot of feats were dubious.
 
Even setting the Krona stuff aside, we do still have Hal squaring up with Black Lantern Crispus Allen, who (without a Black Lantern ring) scales to the emotional entities individually. And him harming and taking a blow from Superboy-Prime, who also scales to one of the emotional entities, as supporting evidence.

Plus Green Lanterns not being completely retconned by COIE and still referencing events that happened Pre-Crisis.
 
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LordTracer said:
Even setting the Krona stuff aside, we do still have Hal squaring up with Black Lantern Crispus Allen, who scales to the emotional entities individually. And him harming and taking a blow from Superboy-Prime, who also scales to one of the emotional entities, as supporting evidence.

Plus Green Lanterns not being completely retconned by COIE and still referencing events that happened Pre-Crisis.
Click to expand...
Definitely agree with this
 
Firestorm808 said:
Rereading the comic the Black Lantern Spectre fights, he doesn't scale to the regular lanterns.
Click to expand...
Thank you for helping out Firestorm. This seems reliable to me.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Hal escapes (Crispus Allen) Black Lantern Spectre's grasp and knocks out Black Lantern Spectre’s jaw to no effect.
Click to expand...
It clearly did have an effect, he knocked his entire jaw off. A more accurate description would be that it didn’t hurt Spectre, which would only be stamina/endurance/pain tolerance in this situation (because duh, he’s a zombie) since Hal is very clearly overcoming his durability.
Firestorm808 said:
It is stated that the Spectre's power eclipses everyone and the Guardians.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t say it eclipses everyone, it just says that it eclipses the Guardians (and Hal scales above them). Also characters can still scale to things stronger than them.
Firestorm808 said:
The Spectre is scared of Parallax, and the Lanterns needed the entity to fight back.
Click to expand...
Once again, your wording here isn’t entirely reflective of what the scan actually says. Hal doesn’t say they need Parallax just to fight Spectre, they need Parallax to defeat him.

There’s nothing that really prevents Hal from scaling here.
 
After rereading the next issue, there is more context on the Black Lantern Spectre situation.
  • Green Lantern Vol 4 #51, April 2010
    • According to Parallax Hal, the Black Lantern ring is hiding the true Spectre.
    • The True Spectre lies beneath the undead construct made by the ring.
    • The Spectre is imprisoned by the mutated and maligned carcass of Crispus Allen.
    • Crispus Allen is the cause of all the trouble. His body was taken by the Black Ring, so The Spectre had no mortal conduit for his power.
    • Just as the True Spectre is underneath the corpse, so is the Black Ring the true source of his imprisonment.
    • When the connection to the black ring is severed, the True Spectre comes back to use Crispus Allen’s body.
    • The Black Spectre everyone was fighting before was not using any power from the Spectre.
 
Teezar said:
Let's not forget this also.
Click to expand...
This actually shows the black lantern spectre could feel pain when hal stroke it, plus.
Hal jordan easily scales to parallax hal based on their previous encounters (but not zero hour parallax)
• Green lantern #160 (1990).
° hal Jordan is able to go toe to toe
With parallax hal jordan.
° This same parallax hal jordan is stated to have almost infinite
Power.

Firestorm808 said:
The Black Spectre everyone was fighting before was not using any power from the Spectre.
Click to expand...
Despite this it was also believed the black lantern spectre was actually spectre himself by the guardians, and it was still stated that that form nearly eclipse's their own power while believing it was the spectre .So it's safe to say the form is almost comparable to the spectre which hal jordan damaged on several occasions.
•plus parallax was easily damaging the spectre, which we all believe hal jordan scales too.

Tried to arrange my chat like yours😑shit didn't work.
 
Firestorm808 said:
After rereading the next issue, there is more context on the Black Lantern Spectre situation.
  • Green Lantern Vol 4 #51, April 2010
    • According to Parallax Hal, the Black Lantern ring is hiding the true Spectre.
    • The True Spectre lies beneath the undead construct made by the ring.
    • The Spectre is imprisoned by the mutated and maligned carcass of Crispus Allen.
    • Crispus Allen is the cause of all the trouble. His body was taken by the Black Ring, so The Spectre had no mortal conduit for his power.
    • Just as the True Spectre is underneath the corpse, so is the Black Ring the true source of his imprisonment.
    • When the connection to the black ring is severed, the True Spectre comes back to use Crispus Allen’s body.
    • The Black Spectre everyone was fighting before was not using any power from the Spectre.
Click to expand...
Thank you for helping out. You make good sense as usual.
 
As I said before, it's stated by Parallax Hall that the Black Lantern they are fighting is a masquerade. It's a shell, a facade, hiding the True Spectre. The Spectre is imprisoned by the mutated and maligned carcass of Crispus Allen. Just as the True Spectre is underneath the corpse, so is the Black Ring the true source of his imprisonment.

I don't follow your proposed scaling chain. Black Lantern Crispus Allen's body was damaged by both the regular lanterns and Parallax Hal. Being damaged by Parallax Hal doesn't mean the Black Lantern Body Construct is 2-C.
 
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Unless I missed something, there’s no indication that BL Spectre is taking damage from Parallax’s attack in the scan I gave. There’s also here, where BL Spectre doesn’t take any damage from being hit by Parallax’s construct.

Also the statement where they say Spectre’s power - “You know first hand the power The Spectre contains” - eclipses the Guardians as well as Hal’s statement - “Because we need the one thing that might be able to beat The Spectre” - meaning Parallax, would imply that the Black Lantern Spectre is on a similar level of power to the original. If it was drastically weaker, both of these statements wouldn’t make any sense.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Firestorm808 said:
As I said before, it's stated by Parallax Hall that the Black Lantern they are fighting is a masquerade. It's a shell, a facade, hiding the True Spectre. The Spectre is imprisoned by the mutated and maligned carcass of Crispus Allen. Just as the True Spectre is underneath the corpse, so is the Black Ring the true source of his imprisonment.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Teezar said:
Despite this it was also believed the black lantern spectre was actually spectre himself by the guardians, and it was still stated that that form nearly eclipse's their own power while believing it was the spectre .So it's safe to say the form is almost comparable to the spectre which hal jordan damaged on several occasions.
•plus parallax was easily damaging the spectre, which we all believe hal jordan scales too.
Click to expand...
 
Firestorm808 said:
I don't follow your proposed scaling chain. Black Lantern Crispus Allen's body was damaged by both the regular lanterns and Parallax Hal.
Click to expand...
I don't really seems to remember this, if you can remind me with scans cause I only remember hal jordan and parallax to have cause major damage to the black lantern spectre.
Plus almost all green lantern stories hal jordan scales to all parallax host even himself as parallax and hal jordan has damaged and killed krona who tanked a universal or multiversal big bang in pre-crisis and we know krona isn't retconned.
 
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