Grappler Baki: Making a Tier 7 verse Tier 7

[Recon1511]

Is it really?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is it really?

Yes, Yujiro bending over and tapping the ground with enough force that it stops a tectonic plate would be inconsistent.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, would it really? Like, if 7-C or Low 7-B are acceptable what's making 7-A wrong? Methinks if you hold the opinion that 7-A is an outlier it should apply to most of tier 7. Which is fine for the record but it doesn't seem like that's what you're arguing.

 

[Recon1511]

I'm not a Baki reader but if Yujiro is stronger than Pickle who is Low 7-B then I don't really see how a 7-A feat is an outlier...

 

[DMUA]

Yeah I'm not really sure about treating it as total seismic energy but if you did, that's not really inconsistent. Yujiro is supposed to be the pinnacle of the verse, including the US military and it's nuclear arsenal

 

[Qawsedf234]

I mean, would it really?

Yes. Stopping a tectonic plate from moving is beyond any in the franchise by a notable degree to my knowledge. Especially if you go with anything above a Magnitude 6.

Methinks if you hold the opinion that 7-A is an outlier it should apply to most of tier 7.

I mean, if it's an all or nothing thing like you're suggesting, then yeah. We shouldn't use those statements then.

Yeah I'm not really sure about treating it as total seismic energy

It's not in my view, I was just explaining why the rating was dropped before.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah I'm not really sure about treating it as total seismic energy but if you did, that's not really inconsistent. Yujiro is supposed to be the pinnacle of the verse, including the US military and it's nuclear arsenal

Would it make sense to treat him on the level of Tsar Bomba?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would it make sense to treat him on the level of Tsar Bomba?

The Tsar was a one off test by the Soviets. It was never intended as an actual military weapon. All strategic warheads are going to be in the low megaton range.

 

[DMUA]

Not particularly, I think a lot of nuclear bombs in the modern arsenal are more in the range of 7-C Cruise Missiles, but it's still worth noting

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I mean it would make Sense to scale him to the strongest weapon considering it's decades old and if we wanted to we could make something much better which noone thinks would be that much effective. But still I believe a plain City level like in the past would be good.

 

[Qawsedf234]

f we wanted to we could make something much better which noone thinks would be that much effective

We can't make something better. Like no missile can handle a warhead that massive without being a liability and bombers struggled to carry a reduced Tsar Bomba payload. It was an experiment and was never intended to go into service. A MIRV warhead will be more effective than the Tsar Bomba ever could be.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

We can't make something better. Like no missile can handle a warhead that massive without being a liability and bombers struggled to carry a reduced Tsar Bomba payload. It was an experiment and was never intended to go into service. A MIRV warhead will be more effective than the Tsar Bomba ever could be.

In that case treat it as me being an Idiot. So the original calc would be good for the earthquake with him stopping the tremors without affecting the plates? Think it makes the most sense. Even without the earthquake Yuji and Baki would scale to Pickle but the earthquake feat gives it further legitimacy.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So the original calc would be good for the earthquake with him stopping the tremors without affecting the plates? Think it makes the most sense.

Well, probably.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Should we like vote for it here? Thread title is pretty fitting.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

As someone fairly familiar with the verse I heavily agree with this.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Oh shit here we go

Alright lemme set some things straight

Yeah I don't really get why Baki supporters didn't jump on this the second it was a thing, but

Pickle surviving the meteor that killed the dinosaurs is a Low 7-B feat, as he was totally undamaged when he got preserved.

That's really all I need but since I am making a CRT I might as well comb over the other stuff that for some reason isn't used

To be blunt, this calc is very wrong

Including your correction in the comments

I'll break down each version

Maruchan Version​

Found Impact Energy: 125502480000000 Tons

Found Distance from Pickle: 2545970 meters (Calc says 254597000 meters which is wrong)

Found Area: 4π(2545,97)^2 = 81454752.3938021087965849 m^2

This found area is wrong because he imputed the value as kilometers instead of meters, he also forgot to cut the area in half since it wasnt a full sphere

The corrected value is 4*pi(2545970)^2 or 40727376200000 m^2

Now plugging that into our inverse square law formula

Intensity: 125502480000000/40727376200000 = 3.081526278 tons per m^2

Found Pickle Area: 3.685 m^2

Cut that in half since the front is what took the blast

True Pickle Area: 3.685/2 = 1.8425 m^2

Finally our energy tanked

Pickle Energy: 1.8425 * 3.081526278 = 5.677712167 tons (High 8-C)

DMUA Version​

DMUA updated the radius with current planet curvature scaling

Found Impact Energy: 96880333862165.8 Tons

Corrected Area: 40727376200000 m^2

Intensity: 96880333862165.8/40727376200000 = 2.378752154 tons per m^2

Pickle Energy: 1.8425 * 2.378752154 = 4.382850844 tons (High 8-C)


Be sure to make sure the calc is correct first before making a CRT about it


I made a corrected version with new scaling if you want to use that

Pickle Tanks a Meteor

vsbattles.fandom.com

The like 3 different times Yujiro is stated to be a military force entirely by himself, one of which directly involves discussion of nuclear ordinance​

Admittedly this isn't something I would use independently, but it's not independent, so

I can't really describe it any more perfectly than the profile itself, where The FBI, Barack Obama and Donald Trump all concluded that the USA's entire military force combined stood no chance against him, there are other instances of statements like that but I don't want to dig them up right now, maybe if people really hate this particular point I will

The recent adaption of the Pickle arc made this like, about 10x more explicit (and if I remember right, Netflix still does the thing where the subtitles translate the original Japanese and you can see differences between how it's dubbed, even if minor, so this would still count in some regard) so there's something else I can easily grab, I guess

Being above the military in no way means your above nukes

8-B is already enough to be above nearly all conventional weapons

Especially when we have explicate confirmation that nukes have never been used on Yujiro


The only thing we have that puts him even close to that level is his earthquake stopping feat which in all honesty is the textbook definition of outlier

But I'd be willing to have a discussion on that if need be

 

[DMUA]

Probably should have figured something was off, but I guess I'm way too used to nonsensical assumptions rather than missed decimals...

The only thing we have that puts him even close to that level is his earthquake stopping feat which in all honesty is the textbook definition of outlier

An outlier is "an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power", not just a feat being high. The stuff currently being used to scale is... actually, it's only two feats from what I can gather? Baki causing an earthquake, Yujiro's presence alone being a High 8-C feat, and I guess you could add the corrected version of this meteor feat, but all of them are done either very easily by Yujiro or people on his level of strength, or just a feat from someone weaker than them (And I think the earthquake feat was also accidental on top of that? Don't entirely remember the context), it's not wildly inconsistent to say that him actually throwing a punch can go into the Tier 7 range

8-B is already enough to be above nearly all conventional weapons

Especially when we have explicate confirmation that nukes have never been used on Yujiro

The very top of this page still makes the suggestion he's probably stronger than a nuke, but more prevalently they don't have room to try. That doesn't strictly contradict the idea that he outperforms a nuke, though it's not that great for proof if in total isolation, yeah

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

The very top of this page still makes the suggestion he's probably stronger than a nuke, but more prevalently they don't have room to try. That doesn't strictly contradict the idea that he outperforms a nuke, though it's not that great for proof if in total isolation, yeah

Yeah but the main point is that they've never tried it on him so they (And by extension everyone who claims he is above nukes) don't know if one would work on him

Which in turn HEAVILY brings into question any tier 7 feat done by Yujiro

Yes, those high 8-C feats were casual but to suggest that he did a feat thousands of times stronger than anything he has ever shown at the beginning of the series when he was vastly weaker and had no superior to military statements (That I know of) seems very iffy

Which I believe falls into the definition of outlier as the series as a whole up to the end barely breaks tier 8 with most of their feats

Only Yujiro statements from uninformed characters back up this insane level of power that has quite literally never been shown in the series besides a single feat at the beginning of the series

 

[DMUA]

Yes, those high 8-C feats were casual but to suggest that he did a feat thousands of times stronger than anything he has ever shown at the beginning of the series when he was vastly weaker and had no superior to military statements (That I know of) seems very iffy

Which I believe falls into the definition of outlier as the series as a whole up to the end barely breaks tier 8 with most of their feats

The fact is, the Tier 7 feat does happen, and there's no real, genuine contradiction for Yujiro being capable of that. He's the strongest guy in the verse and his other feats are entirely casual, there's no reason to just dismiss it by throwing "outlier" at it when it's just him doing a bigger feat by putting in more effort.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah no real reason to handwave it away. Agree with DMUA.

 

[DMUA]

In spite of the admittedly embarrassing premise, I'm still going to push that they get their 7-C ratings back off what I've said prior

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

In spite of the admittedly embarrassing premise, I'm still going to push that they get their 7-C ratings back off what I've said prior

Didn't understand are you for or against that? Also in another baki thread a problem arised. If you would like to check it out.

 

[Da3ggman]

In spite of the admittedly embarrassing premise, I'm still going to push that they get their 7-C ratings back off what I've said prior

Damn, so no more Low 7-B Pickle?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Damn, so no more Low 7-B Pickle?

If the earthquake feat comes back he would easily scale to it as it was done casually by a much weaker yujiro who is either a match or slightly below pickle before the demon back. I personally accept the feat as it's a pretty clear cut one done by the god tier of the verse and statements match this sort of power. Like yeah you can say that the statements could be hyperbolic on their own by the match with the feat also. And now in the dub President Obama does think of Yujiro as stronger than a nuke. And that was in his base.

 

[DMUA]

Didn't understand are you for or against that?

For Tier 7, I just realize I missed a decimal error that made pickle Low 7-B as I started this thread with (thus making it a High 8-C feat in actuality)

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

For Tier 7, I just realize I missed a decimal error that made pickle Low 7-B as I started this thread with (thus making it a High 8-C feat in actuality)

Then I do agree with you. Also damn only a large building level feat then. Also DMUA can we derive speed from the portrayal of a shockwave?

 

[DMUA]

I did follow the thread you're alluding too, and nah, you can't

You'd really just have to go off True Mach Punch's stated speed and even then I can't think of a reason that anyone would scale to that

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I did follow the thread you're alluding too, and nah, you can't

You'd really just have to go off True Mach Punch's stated speed and even then I can't think of a reason that anyone would scale to that

But it has no stated speed. Just being True hitless>casual punch=>training punch>kaku's punch>original mach punch which is already supersonic but nothing else. I have thought of another way but don't know if it holds up as evidence. That katsumi needs 27 joints to reach above sonic and he should have at least 1000 imaginative ones via Kaku's statement as even that was a pretty casual statement by him while he considered that Katsumi mastered the technigue even above himself. If we suggest each joint gives the same extra speed like Katsumi implied it would be mach 37 something. Also it should scale to Yujiro because let's be honest he can probably do it better in base let alone during demon back. Of course those are all supposing my hypothesis works.

 

[DMUA]

If we suggest each joint gives the same extra speed like Katsumi implied it would be mach 37 something

They do mention that it could go hundreds/thousands or however high an amount of miles per second so it's not that unreasonable, especially when they do break down how each joint increases the velocity

Also it should scale to Yujiro because let's be honest he can probably do it better in base let alone during demon back.

I mean, theoretically, but it's not like every single punch from Yujiro is equitable to an extremely elaborate and special attack that repeatedly blitzed someone equatable to him in the form of Pickle

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

They do mention that it could go hundreds/thousands or however high an amount of miles per second so it's not that unreasonable, especially when they do break down how each joint increases the velocity

I mean, theoretically, but it's not like every single punch from Yujiro is equitable to an extremely elaborate and special attack that repeatedly blitzed someone equatable to him in the form of Pickle

Yeah that's the problem...I think the speed statement is a mistranslation. The thousands was the number of theoretical joints. I saw the scene in the new episodes and that's what it said. Also I found a similar thing in another forum and the original statement literally translates to that. The statement is

Spoiler

加速のための関節などいくらでも増やせる。
百でも千でも、なんぼでも。

which translates to

Spoiler

You can add any number of joints for acceleration.
A hundred, a thousand, whatever.

through google translation. Here is the original raw I found.

Also about the speed can't say you don't make sense with that. I don't remember any other good speed feat though. For sure Hitless Blow done by yujiro would be better but we don't have anything for general punches.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Yeah that's the problem...I think the speed statement is a mistranslation. The thousands was the number of theoretical joints. I saw the scene in the new episodes and that's what it said. Also I found a similar thing in another forum and the original statement literally translates to that. The statement is

Spoiler

加速のための関節などいくらでも増やせる。
百でも千でも、なんぼでも。

which translates to

Spoiler

You can add any number of joints for acceleration.
A hundred, a thousand, whatever.

through google translation. Here is the original raw I found.

Yeah we should really double check all the scans that we use for speed scaling

The same thing happened with Musashi's .0001 second attack timeframe which turned out to be the analysis of the information not the attack itself

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah we should really double check all the scans that we use for speed scaling

The same thing happened with Musashi's .0001 second attack timeframe which turned out to be the analysis of the information not the attack itself

There is another way to calc it and the result isn't that bad it's basically what I said above and I could understand if someone doesn't like that. It's basically multiplying the speed of a single joint x the number of joints either the thousand statement or the amount shown on screen. It does make sense to do that as that's what katsumi was trying to achieve and he did state he needed 27 to surpass sonic speed. Also I fear you will end up downgrading the verse too much at least keep Yuji's quake .

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

There is another way to calc it and the result isn't that bad it's basically what I said above and I could understand if someone doesn't like that. It's basically multiplying the speed of a single joint x the number of joints either the thousand statement or the amount shown on screen. It does make sense to do that as that's what katsumi was trying to achieve and he did state he needed 27 to surpass sonic speed. Also I fear you will end up downgrading the verse too much at least keep Yuji's quake .

I'm fine with that as long as we don't scale him to Kaku's statement without any evidence

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I'm fine with that as long as we don't scale him to Kaku's statement without any evidence

What do you mean for evidence?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

What do you mean for evidence?

I just saying were not scaling Katsumi to the "1000 miles per minute" statement since Kaku is just saying you can eventually reach that speed not that Katsumi himself can reach that speed

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Agreed

And also if we're being fr Baki is just so utterly batshit insane that honestly anyone calling "anti-feat" or "outlier" on anything in the series has about as much validity as someone responding to them with sumn like "anti-feat schmanti-feat" lmao, the only consistency Itagaki gives a shit about is consistently making the Hanmas consistently look as cool as possible at any given moment

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I just saying were not scaling Katsumi to the "1000 miles per minute" statement since Kaku is just saying you can eventually reach that speed not that Katsumi himself can reach that speed

There isn't such speed. What kaku wad saying was the numbers of joints. The speed statement doesn't exist. However Kaku was absolutely casual when talking about the thousand joint part and said no problem. Later in a dinner with Doppo he said that Katsumi had probably already mastered the technique and thus should absolutely scale to it.

 

[Armorchompy]

And also if we're being fr Baki is just so utterly batshit insane that honestly anyone calling "anti-feat" or "outlier" on anything in the series has about as much validity as someone responding to them with sumn like "anti-feat schmanti-feat" lmao, the only consistency Itagaki gives a shit about is consistently making the Hanmas consistently look as cool as possible at any given moment

That would be an argument against higher tiers, not lower ones

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

That would be an argument against higher tiers, not lower ones

I don't think Katsumi post HB js anything but a high tier. Everyone that isn't Baki, Yujiro, Pickle and maybe Hanayama, Jack and Oliva would be out cold or dead.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

There isn't such speed. What kaku wad saying was the numbers of joints. The speed statement doesn't exist. However Kaku was absolutely casual when talking about the thousand joint part and said no problem. Later in a dinner with Doppo he said that Katsumi had probably already mastered the technique and thus should absolutely scale to it.

Him saying he mastered it isn't really the best evidence that he should scale to 1000 joints, also this is Doppo not Kaku that's saying this.

Doppo was ******** himself at Katsumi perfecting the Mach fist which is a far inferior technique, so it'd be best to take that statement with a grain of salt

At best we could give him a possibly rating based on that

We should just use the joints he's shown to have imagined in his arm