Grand Priest's Probability Manipulation problem

[Adem_Warlock69]

I don't see anything wrong with him having miracle CI, every Pokemon has the same thing, yet I don't see anyone complaining

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Pokemon never dips into NLF territories like never being able to hit somebody.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Well I've posted the description, it only works once per battle. I don't know the game so I can't say what constitutes as a battle.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

....Mimikyu...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Mimikyu is "the costume absorbs the blow of the first attack". Nothing comparable. Every evasion booster is like, never treated as probability manipulation. Double Team is duplication/illusions. Lucky Chant is the only exception and every profile with the move explicitly mentions that it's limited, only preventing critical hits.

 

[Rocker1189]

well I can see this move as a 1 time attack nullification/limited power null. But tbh it does not fit the whole max CI description, I see nothing of that in the card.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with Cal

 

[AwkguyDB]

It's honestly not that much of a NLF.

The concept of the move is that since GP has the highest rating in the game, basically the strongest in the DBH Multiverse, .....'his attacks have the highest probability of landing on his opponent and that his opponents abilities will always fail to land on him.'

By simple context clues you can tell that there's nobody in Dragon Ball that can touch GP via this technique (Except DBH Zeno who GP stated he could never beat) but obviously if someone was say faster or stronger than GP there's a less likelyhood that this attack would connect. GP can not use this on a 2-A and if speed is unequalized and someone was faster than him with enough AP or Hax to compete, they would body him. HOWEVER, this was not the case with Darkrai. Darkrai was literally in one shot territory and had to bank his wincon on a Dark Void attack that without Probability Manip would most likely not connect due to many other abilites GP has like Instinctive Reaction, Barriers, BFR with a literal snap, there was no way DV was touching GP before Darkrai was popped into Oblivion. Again all this attack does is increase the effectiveness of his attack and reduce the effectiveness of his opponents. It's like a combination of Dragon Dance and SmokeScreen. Sadly, for literally everyone in 2-B and why this is even a big deal, GP is hilariously far in the 2-B rating, soooo far that he's actually the strongest of the site.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

So is that the only statement for Probability Manipulation?

 

[Rocker1189]

@Awkguy

so what if an opponent has a move with a massive AOE, this does not sound like probability to me it simply sounds like he is just really fast.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Doesn't Xeno Goku have a stronger Miracle CI? He has Grand Priest's ability + a chance to OHKO.

 

[PaChi2]

In dragon ball heroes CI battles are battles where each party has to stop a filling bar the closest they can to get it full. If you get the full bar first your attack is successful and you land damage, if the enemy gets a higher bar you lose and your attack deals almost no damage.

Grand Priest having the fastest CI charge means that his CI bar will reach the full state faster and thus his attacks will always be 100% their power while the enemy will have their power reduced by a large margin (or miss).

Miracles allow for 0 damage (miss), which GP seems to be the character with the most possibilities to have in the game.

Im just explaining. I dont like this as Probability Manipulation, but eh.

 

[AwkguyDB]

@Awkguy
so what if an opponent has a move with a massive AOE, this does not sound like probability to me it simply sounds like he is just really fast.

Not just speed at all, as PaChi2 stated above when you fill up the bar you will always successfully attack your opponent but you also reduce the power of the opponents attack as well as their accuracy to the point where they can not land an attack. Based on the above description that's literally in our definition of Probability Manip:

"....This can take effect in a variety of different ways; it may appear as just supernatural luck, or can be more actively used for defense to make attacks inexplicably miss - and in the same way, it can be used to make sure attacks always hit. ..........."

By the description above.

If you get the full bar first your attack is successful and you land damage, if the enemy gets a higher bar you lose and your attack deals almost no damage.

Grand Priest having the fastest CI charge means that his CI bar will reach the full state faster and thus his attacks will always be 100% their power while the enemy will have their power reduced by a large margin (or miss).

 

[Rocker1189]

"....This can take effect in a variety of different ways; it may appear as just supernatural luck, or can be more actively used for defense to make attacks inexplicably miss - and in the same way, it can be used to make sure attacks always hit. ..........."

By the description above.

If you get the full bar first your attack is successful and you land damage, if the enemy gets a higher bar you lose and your attack deals almost no damage.

Grand Priest having the fastest CI charge means that his CI bar will reach the full state faster and thus his attacks will always be 100% their power while the enemy will have their power reduced by a large margin (or miss).

Except Pachi himself says that he does not like it as probability manip, regardless does this mean he can always do this with no cooldown?

Though against it also mentions that he reduces their attack power in other words it does not always make attacks miss it can just reduce the damage he takes from attacks.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I mean whether someone likes it or not the proof is in the pudding. By our standards of Probability Manip and based on the description given from even the opposition, it fits into that category. Being able to also reduce damage he takes is not really taking away from the fact that by definition it is probability manipulation but rather that is has other abilities with it like Statistics Reduction (which he has on his profile already) or even power null (which he also has on his profile)

 

[PaChi2]

I mean, nobody outside of DBH has CI.

CI should be, if anything, Probability manipulation of inmense levels against anyone who isnt from DBH. Grand Priest is only the "best" CI user.

@Rocker no cooldown, indeed. As soon as any dbh character is targeted for a direct attack or starts an attack, a CI battle occurs. It doesnt work against stuff not directed at the opponent (i.e non-aimed big AoE attack like blowing up the Earth/ aura-like abilities...). It has it flaws.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I also agree that if the target isn't targeting back at GP then it won't work on the target because the attack is not direct. Miracle CI only works if the attack is suppose to land on GP. It's not this thing that nulles the enemy to doing absolutely nothing there are ways around it. It also requires time to charge so it's not just this thing that drops accuracy and ensures victory right away. Anybody fast enough or with a faster move (i.e. thought based attacks) would straight up beat GP to the punch.

 

[Rocker1189]

So Aoes work like I initially assumed? because that is what it sounds like to me.

 

[PaChi2]

So Aoes work like I initially assumed? because that is what it sounds like to me.

Aoes work as long as you dont try to hit the guy directly.

If you aim to, say, a tree near the opponent, the guy will get caught in the radius of the attack if its big enough.

For example, Infinite Tsukuyomi works fine.

 

[Rocker1189]

Aoes work as long as you dont try to hit the guy directly.

If you aim to, say, a tree near the opponent, the guy will get caught in the radius of the attack if its big enough.

For example, Infinite Tsukuyomi works fine.

wait I did not think that non direct attacks like even mind hax were included lol. Well anyway the description of it does seem fine enough for probability manipulation tbh. I assumed it was just some evasion stat which was being wanked to probability manip like is done in some game based profiles. That being said it needs a better description because it sounds way too ambiguous othe way it is put on the page.

 

[PaChi2]

Btw, it is not a speed stat by any means.

DBH is turn based, a turn's phases are ordered according to a "powerlevel" stat of sorts.

For example:

Turn 1: GP (10k) vs Team Broly (9999999999k because MAXIMUNER).

Team Broly goes first. Broly attacks GP. CI battle starts. GP reaches full bar first because reasons. Broly's attack misses/gets reduced to minimun.

Now it is GP's phase. GP attacks. CI battle starts. GP blah blah. GP's attack hits for 100% full damage.

 

[Rocker1189]

Sounds balanced.

 

[PaChi2]

Sounds balanced.

It actually is. Bear in mind that it is the player the one who has to stop the CI meter as close as they can to the full bar. The faster the bar moves, the harder it is to land on a perfect score.

Faster bars are much more difficult to handle than slower bars. But since this is vsdebating we are talking about, I guess we remove the "player skill" from the equation.

 

[Dragomer]

Miracle CI ignore player skill anyway, they are 'automatic perfects' that allow for miss / 0 damage, something not done by normal CI (normal CI, even perfects only cancel special skills / attack and make the attack do almost no damage)

Also both Zeno and GP have 'events' and abilities in the game where they drasticaly improve your miracle CI chance as a reward for entertaining Zeno during a fight (you also get a Super Dragon Ball at the end of those fights with Zeno vision or whatever it's called)

 

[Rocker1189]

So "balanced", like I said lol.

 

[Dragomer]

So "balanced", like I said lol.

It's balanced because the miracle CI doesn't happen all the time, though you have built that basicaly guarantee it but hey, OP decks in a card game are nothing new.

 

[PaChi2]

I thought Miracle CI was Supernatural Luck while CI was Prob Manipulation. Because the ability to manipulate the enemy's chances of hitting and having 100% acc comes from CI, while miracle CI is just "muh CI wins GG".

 

[Dragomer]

I thought Miracle CI was Supernatural Luck while CI was Prob Manipulation. Because the ability to manipulate the enemy's chances of hitting and having 100% acc comes from CI, while miracle CI is just "muh CI wins GG".

I hadn't though of it that way, make sense.

 

[PaChi2]

Let's reword it:

Passive Probability Manipulation (CI allows the user to reduce the damage of any attack targeting them or outright make them miss while allowing 100% accuracy for the user's own attacks)

Supernatural Luck (having the highest possible chance of Miracle CI, Grand Priest has the best chance of automatically activating perfect CI with no time required)

Note that CI has a small delay in its activation.

 

[Rose_of_Ragnarok]

What does CI stand for?

 

[Dragomer]

What does CI stand for?

Charge Impact, that's what happen before any attack happen in DBH (outside of turn dependent abilities that activate automaticaly, those that activate as an attack still happen after CI IIRC)

 

[PaChi2]

What does CI stand for?

Dunno how its in english, but it'd be something sort of "Charged impact" or "Charge Impact" or something like that?

 

[Dragomer]

What does CI stand for?

Dunno how its in english, but it'd be something sort of "Charged impact" or "Charge Impact" or something like that?

In DB world mission's english version, it's called Charge Impact.

 

[Rose_of_Ragnarok]

Thx

 

[AwkguyDB]

Let's reword it:
Passive Probability Manipulation (CI allows the user to reduce the damage of any attack targeting them or outright make them miss while allowing 100% accuracy for the user's own attacks)

Supernatural Luck (having the highest possible chance of Miracle CI, Grand Priest has the best chance of automatically activating perfect CI with no time required)

Note that CI has a small delay in its activation.

I like this explanation

 

[PaChi2]

When a removal CRT becomes an addition CRT

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Shouldn't Xeno Goku also have this?

 

[AwkguyDB]

LMAO

 

[PaChi2]

Shouldn't Xeno Goku also have this?

I dont see whynaut.

 

[AwkguyDB]

No need he already has Probability Manipulation, however if we add Supernatural Luck I guess he can get that too. Maybe we can update his already existing Probabiltiy Manipulation.