(GRACE) Fight between Edgy Time Stoppers

[StrymULTRA]

Jotaro's part 3 page about his resistance:

Make a CRT with your Jojo fans to change it then

Nothing in his post-OH key implies otherwise, make a CRT then

This also applies to canon as well, I am arguing with the fact he can't move without using his, which still isn't being proven and contradicts the actual pages

1) They're the same comparing the profiles

2) Canon DIO resistance to TS is this

Limited Resistance to Time Stop (Can see and think within stopped time, as well as move at the cost of using his own personal nine second limit)

Aka they're separated, he doesn't need his TS to be aware in the other.

I don't care to remove this match anymore, but people are literally arguing things that aren't in this page or that contradict it, he wins via vague ass arguments and a FRA train, and you yourself made arguments in favor of Jotaro winning in the first page, almost making me believe you made this to give Jojo a W, I don't think you did this but that's the feeling I get

Defending my verse from disinformation is now worth of such accuses? Lol

 

[Greenshifter]

How much percentage chance is there that Jotaro can win without his own time stop and how much with?

 

[StrymULTRA]

How much percentage chance is there that Jotaro can win without his own time stop and how much with?

They resist each other TS and each one's offensive abilities would one shot the opponent

 

[Greenshifter]

They resist each other TS and each one's offensive abilities would one shot the opponent

Unless I missed something they don't. The rules changed for speed-based time stop resistance in speed equalized.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Unless I missed something they don't. The rules changed for speed-based time stop resistance in speed equalized.

Jotaro himself doesn't resist the Over Heaven TS which bypasses both Infinite Speed and Resistance to baseline TS, that is true

 

[StrymULTRA]

Since both are Infinite in Speed because new Speed Equal rules, can Shadow tank that TS or not?

 

[Greenshifter]

which bypasses both Infinite

This became irrelevant, see here. As such Jotaro only has a baseline time stop resistance which Shadow bypasses. Meanwhile Shadow's speed also became irrelevant thus he can't resist Jotaro's time stop.

edit: oh right they're both infinite... man these new rules are confusing.

 

[Theuser789]

1) They're the same comparing the profiles

2) Canon DIO resistance to TS is this

Limited Resistance to Time Stop (Can see and think within stopped time, as well as move at the cost of using his own personal nine second limit)

Aka they're separated, he doesn't need his TS to be aware in the other.

As I said, I am arguing that he needs to use his own time stop to move, not to be aware, I don't know how many times I need to repeat this

 

[StrymULTRA]

As I said, I am arguing that he needs to use his own time stop to move, not to be aware, I don't know how many times I need to repeat this

Oh, for that then yeah lol, thought you were arguing for even being aware lmfao

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

edit: oh right they're both infinite... man these new rules are confusing.

Shadow is immeasurable though

 

[StrymULTRA]

Shadow is immeasurable though

Speed equal makes now both being the lowest speed between the two, and the abilities got from the speed of the superior one are just abilities and not speed in the new rules

 

[Schnee_One]

God did we make the the rules bad again? What did we change?

 

[Theuser789]

Shadow also isn't immune to time stop even though he is immeasurable in the new rules, however if Jotaro wins because of it (which I STILL don't know about this) this match wouldn't be able to be added as well

 

[StrymULTRA]

I've told to y'all before that both being 4-A was the best solution.

 

[Greenshifter]

Imma just assume 3 scenarios since at this point idk anymore how time stop vs infinite speed gets treated on the wiki:

1) infinite speed and time stop resistance come down to the same thing: Jotaro's/Star Platinum's resistance comes down to 1 degree above baseline (I might be wrong here, does DIO's time stop bypass the infinite speed of people with no time stop resistance as well?), Shadow's CH doesn't bypass, but gives Star Platinum finite speed. Shadow's resistance comes down to baseline, Jotaro's time stop bypasses. If this becomes a major element in Jotaro's victory then the match can not be added.

2) Infinite speed is superior to stacked time stops: Jotaro time stops Shadow, Jotaro himself resists. If this becomes a major element in Jotaro's victory then the match can not be added.

3) Infinite speed is inferior to a time stop (I kid you not this is an option): No-one resists either's time stop. If this becomes a major element in Jotaro's victory then the match can not be added.

 

[Greenshifter]

God did we make the the rules bad again? What did we change?

It's confusing but this has more to do with how we currently treat infinite speed and don't have inaccessible speed. I'm actually in favor of the new speed equalization standards... cause we finally have standards and should have less headaches.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Inaccessible speed should be on this wiki ffs

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm actually doubting if someone currently knows how infinite speed vs time stop is treated on the wiki aside from Ultima and DontTalk, maybe Yuri but I'd disagree with him. Oh and Agnaa also has a chance to know.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'm actually doubting if somehow currently knows how infinite speed vs time stop is treated on the wiki aside from Ultima and DontTalk, maybe Yuri but I'd disagree with him. Oh and Agnaa also has a chance to know.

Infinite Speed resists TS but from default for a completely different reason than layers of resistance.

 

[Greenshifter]

Funny how people barely can get infinite speed for moving in a time stop anymore then (see Archie Sonic). IIRC Yuri also disagreed with infinite speed giving time stop resistance. If you look at a time stop as a true zero vs infinite speed being a limit infinity then you end up with zero.

 

[Theuser789]

Infinite speed doesn't resist time stop based on the wikia standards:

While time stop, which could be viewed as an infinite speed amplification, is assumed to work even on characters that would usually bypass it via speed, those matches can likewise not be added.

 

[Greenshifter]

That's not what that means User, it means that if you become finite speed via speed equalization then you get affected by time stop even if you would normally resist it via infinite speed or higher. The first part of this quote also implies that time stop resistance and infinite speed come down to the same thing when exposed to a time stop, (unquantifiable (for the latter)) finite speed.

Edit: it might also imply that infinite speed bypasses all layers of time stop btw.

 

[Theuser789]

Oh

 

[Greenshifter]

So yeah as you've just seen, I've given reasoning for why all 3 cases are plausible based on the current standards. Who's gonna flip a coin?

 

[StrymULTRA]

So match is gonna be removed or should I make both 4-A so both become just MFTL+?

 

[Greenshifter]

How much percentage chance is there that Jotaro can win without his own time stop and how much with?

^

 

[Cloozuma]

(I might be wrong here, does DIO's time stop bypass the infinite speed of people with no time stop resistance as well?)

Don't know but it's superior to GER, who is above baseline infinite, upscaling from MIH.

 

[StrymULTRA]

^

He'd use RO if he doesn't use TS.

 

[Theuser789]

So 50% percent?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Don't know but it's superior to GER, who is above baseline infinite, upscaling from MIH.

Dio OH and Jotaro can stop each other with the improved TS despite the speed and resistance to baseline TS.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So 50% percent?

He usually leads with TS normally against an opponent he doesn't know, otherwise he goes with the most offensive thing he has atm if he can't TS.

 

[Theuser789]

So higher than 50%?

 

[manu_zarri]

Jotaro's part 3 page about his resistance:

I bet that you didn't open a single link that i gived

"(Can see and think within stopped time as well as move at the cost of using his own personal five second limit)"
it's refered to Jotaro resistance, that's the main point of jotaro win in stardust crusader

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually a small note to make things even more confusing, in scenario 1 Star Platinum will get finite speed if Shadow gets his time stop off. So he’ll get blitzed.

 

[manu_zarri]

Actually a small note to make things even more confusing, in scenario 1 Star Platinum will get finite speed if Shadow gets his time stop off. So he’ll get blitzed.

I meant, what do you mean?

 

[Greenshifter]

I meant, what do you mean?

What I said lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

So higher than 50%?

I mean, if he definitely can't rely on TS he'd go with RO, so kinda.

 

[Theuser789]

I bet that you didn't open a single link that i gived

"(Can see and think within stopped time as well as move at the cost of using his own personal five second limit)"
it's refered to Jotaro resistance, that's the main point of jotaro win in stardust crusader

I did, they only support the description of the resistance in his current page

 

[manu_zarri]

Imma just assume 3 scenarios since at this point idk anymore how time stop vs infinite speed gets treated on the wiki:

1) infinite speed and time stop resistance come down to the same thing: Jotaro's/Star Platinum's resistance comes down to 1 degree above baseline (I might be wrong here, does DIO's time stop bypass the infinite speed of people with no time stop resistance as well?), Shadow's CH doesn't bypass, but gives Star Platinum finite speed. Shadow's resistance comes down to baseline, Jotaro's time stop bypasses. If this becomes a major element in Jotaro's victory then the match can not be added.

2) Infinite speed is superior to stacked time stops: Jotaro time stops Shadow, Jotaro himself resists. If this becomes a major element in Jotaro's victory then the match can not be added.

3) Infinite speed is inferior to a time stop (I kid you not this is an option): No-one resists either's time stop. If this becomes a major element in Jotaro's victory then the match can not be added.

Ok only the first scenario is true.

Time Stop and Infinite speed according to the wiki move "Instantly". (refering to the versus theard rules page)

also the second is true because Jotaro Infinite speed is way faster than baseline

but Shadow resist time stop, right?

 

[manu_zarri]

I did, they only support the description of the resistance in his current page

Already asked Chariot to explain you the meaning of that resistance quote

since you won't belive me in any case