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Necrozma quickly overpowers them tho
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Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2: Getting to work
- Thread starter Ayewale
- Start date
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- Tags
- pokedex pokémon pokémon tcg
- Status
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Not quite. They clash evenly but all Necrozma really needed was the one moment to pin them down so it could do the thing
Lou_change
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Let’s see
And Ho-oh doesn’t really have anything to prove it is directly comparable to Lugia
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Nah
Ho-oh is Lugia’s counterpart it should be fine
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Counterparts literally always scale to each other. That's why they're counterparts
Lou_change
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they never fight. The in game connection between them is they, both perched on towers in the same city and flew away after one was destroyed, I guess there is the Navel Rock event
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Doesn't matter. Defeats the whole purpose if one is suddenly so much stronger than the other
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,122
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I am pretty sure it needs to be proven they are comparable unless Suicune is also equal to those two or Pikachu is equal to fully evolved starters
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Two false equivalences here. Suicune is a part of its own trio, and Pikachu is explicitly a middle-stage Pokemon and only has higher capabilities via the Partner Pikachu in Let's Go
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If we have this precedent of the two box-art legends being comparable to each other, why would we suddenly break it based on nothing provable? Occam's Razor, while not a word of law or anything, would even support this
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,185
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Third titles legendaries are always stronger than the normal ones tho
Rayquaza > Groudon and Kyogre
Giratina > Dialga and Palkia
Zygarde > Xerneas and Yveltal
Rayquaza > Groudon and Kyogre
Giratina > Dialga and Palkia
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Only one of these two is true
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Idk if it helps, but I have a server with a friend where we essentially just compile Pokemon feats, and I have a folder dedicated to all notable feats from normal Pokemon in their Pokedex entries. Nothing for Legendaries or Mythical though. I assume some of these have already been calculated, but quote every entry I found. I'll bold the ones I think are most notable.
There's more stuff in the server. So if anyone wants to join that, message me on my wall or DM, and I'll invite you if you wanna see more feats. These are just the ones I felt needed to be heard in case any of them weren't yet calculated. If this message just clogs things, feel free to delete it tho.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,185
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Giratina in Legends Arceus is definitely treated as stronger than Dialga and Palkia tho
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Atm I don't think Pokemon with evolution lines are the concern. The primary concern is legendary scaling
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Not really, no... Just asserting this doesn't help. And the three are supported by lore as being equals due to all three being the ones that formed the cosmology
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,185
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Volo believed that he could beat the Player when they had access to Primal Dialga and Palkia, and after losing still thought that Giratina could take them down
Giratina>Volo>Palkia and Dialga
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Ah, I see. Any Legendaries in specific? Or all of them? And are Mythicals included in the talk of Legendaries? My friend did most of the scan gathering in terms of Legendaries, but I looked a little myself as well.
Lou_change
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I had to prove the mew duo scaled to each other, every other group of box legendaries at least fight each or do something to prove comparable to each other except the paradox duo who I would argue also don't get to scale to each other
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Ah, good luck with that. Without the movie, that gets a bit tough.
Lou_change
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And he was wrong
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I don't see how that matters. If every other legendary pair is comparable and we have nothing that remotely indicates otherwise here, why should we go with the scaling viewpoint that requires jumping through more hoops
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,122
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Being a pair of legendaries isn't the reason for being comparable them, it's because they do something that proves they're comparable. Luiga has feats to prove how strong they are and lives underwater so they don't cause mass destruction, while Ho-oh doesn't. We need a reason beyond it feels right.
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That doesn't answer my question. There's a clear precedent set, so why ignore it?
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,122
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1. It literally is not a precedent it wasn't until gen 3 any legendary is directly compared to another.
2. There is further context being ignored, the other groups are shown to be comparable.
3. Lugia is treated as far more dangerous than Ho-oh as the reason for it living in the ocean is because the destruction it would cause for example the OR/AS dex entry: Lugia's wings pack devastating power — a light fluttering of its wings can blow apart regular houses. As a result, this Pokémon chooses to live out of sight deep under the sea. Ho-oh having never fought Lugia and never doing something similar shouldn't scale just because.
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Ain’t no way we’re trying to say Ho-Oh doesn’t scale to Lugia now.
They’re counterparts, they’re effectively interchangeable in the Johto games’ narrative, and there is a precedent for legendary counterparts being comparable to each other (i.e. Groudon and Kyogre, Zekrom and Reshiram, Xerneas and Yveltal, etc).
They’re comparable. There’s no good reason to say otherwise.
They’re counterparts, they’re effectively interchangeable in the Johto games’ narrative, and there is a precedent for legendary counterparts being comparable to each other (i.e. Groudon and Kyogre, Zekrom and Reshiram, Xerneas and Yveltal, etc).
They’re comparable. There’s no good reason to say otherwise.
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1. Precedent is precedent, whether or not it comes later. Hell that precedent still existed after the Gen 2 remakes
2. And they establish said precedent.
3. Just because Ho-Oh's focus on its Dex entries is different, doesn't mean it's weaker. Maybe Lugia is more of an immediate danger, but Ho-Oh is never treated as outright weaker
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,122
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Are you aware their parts in the narrative? I'll show you real quick.
"<player>, thank you! Your courageous actions have saved Pokémon nationwide. I know it's not much, but please take this.""There used to be a tower right here in Goldenrod City. But it was old and creaky. So we replaced it with our Radio Tower.""During the teardown, we found that at the top. I heard that giant Pokémon used to fly over Goldenrod in the past. Maybe that fell off a Pokémon. Maybe like the one that appears at Tin Tower in Ecruteak CityG/Whirl Islands near CianwoodS. OK, I better go to my office." The Radio Director.
1. Precedent
2. How so? If that is the case then it should be easy to prove.
3. I mean one is treated as incredibly destructive and the other doesn't have any feats without scaling. So there is a notable difference in portrayal.
Anyway you fail the test, there was a easy answer they aren't version exclusives
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How does this mean it would destroy the world though?
Lou_change
He/Him- 10,122
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I don’t believe I said it destroyed the world, I suggested up scaling from the ultimate weapon.
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well but it was not said definitive weapon would only eliminate life but not the planet and even that was questionable and at that point lyson was losing his mind and we know in the past it was used and the damage weapon was not even that extensive
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I can probably take a look at it and see if I can pump out a new calc
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