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Goku VS He-Man

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KinkiestSins said:
True by a statement, but Roshi via the plot had no reason to know this.

Goku was training in the outer world, Vegeta was on earth.

How would he know?

LUL he just does because he can sense Ki? I dont buy that one bit, especially since when he finally did meet goku, he wasn't releasing all of his power

Just because it wasn't proven true doesn't mean that Roshi said this within reason.
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True, but Roshi's statement stands since it was corroborated by Goku and Vegeta at the end of the movie. Goku admitted himself that Vegeta got stronger than him after Bulma was slapped.
 
" I will have a field day removing matchups because "lul not in character." "

Catskully
Fine by me, tbh, I've always found it kinda iffy that people assume that characters somehow know what their most broken techniques are in the context of a Versus debate
Hmm... I guess I'll vote Goku, high-difficulty, for greater AP/Dura, more versatility in his modes of attack, and more experience in the types of combat scenarios that SBA implies. He-Man has arguably more experience overall, sure, but a lot of it is in the form of outsmarting enemies with elaborate schemes and hax powers. He-Man tends to avoid head-on combat when possible, which is sorta what we're forcing him into here.
 
With that, Goku has 17 votes to He-Man's 14. Grace perios starts (again) for Goku.

But I think it's best to wait for Azzy to comment before making any decisions.
 
Theglassman12 said:
I'm talking about when he fought majin Buu.
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Yeah, and I am talking about Battle of Gods, where Roshi stated "his energy is beyond gokus."

Like, how would he know?

Honestly, you can imply that he was talking about Past Goku SS3 > Current Vegeta SS2.

But that mean that Roshi is at best out of touch of the power of his ace student.

Or at worst, he is senile and forget how strong goku was.

I am tempted to say the former, which would imply the statement he claimed earlier was a little weak.

Am I saying he doesnt believe it? No, of course not

But can I say he is probably over/underestimating Goku? Definitely.

He has done it before. In DB, he thought that he would win handily against goku when he was Jackie Chun, but only 'barely' won.
 
He never said that he would easily won, he said that he wanted to teach goku a lesson on how there will always be someone stronger than him. Also there's nothing shown in dragon ball that states that Master Roshi is senile, or the fact that he was bluffing since Goku himself confirmed it in the end of the movie.
 
You are missing my point glass.

By all positions of the characters in the plot

Goku- Outerworld

Vegeta, everyone else- Earth

He has no reason to assume that that goku < vegeta.

Also, Roshi said this but he also said "I am the top and he is near me, and I didn't expect it to be so hard."

To paraphase, iirc.

And even again, this is even playing devils advocate

This is one statement from only Roshi.

To back what, that Goku can one shot in this context?

Compared to reasons I listed above? Seems like not enough evidence.

At worst, again, inconclusive.
 
You're skipping the part where I said that Goku himself stated that vegeta has gotten very strong in the end of the movie.
 
Haven't goku's reasons for winning been debunked countless times ? Why is their vote still counted.

Anyway I vote for he-man for @kinks reasons because just having UI isn't an auto win, he man beats him in everything else.
 
No, they haven't been debunked. UI makes it nigh impossible for a standard sword user to hit Goku. Without an AoE/Homing attack breaking through UI is extremely difficult. And he isn't vastly inferior in AP, as Perpetual as shown.

The votes are perfectly valid.
 
He-man has mind control, time manipulation, reality warping and a myriad of abilities that can affect goku how is goku winning ?
 
Assaltwaffle said:
No, they haven't been debunked. UI makes it nigh impossible for a standard sword user to hit Goku. Without an AoE/Homing attack breaking through UI is extremely difficult. And he isn't vastly inferior in AP, as Perpetual as shown.

The votes are perfectly valid.
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It can still be done as shown with jiren and he didn't just use Ki blasts jiren hit him with his fists, and in this match up a single hit from he man will most likely one shot goku.

And if that doesn't work then he man will just erase him as his exsist erasure more potent than anything goku has had to deal with
 
@abbadon Waffle just told you how Goku can win, not to mention that Goku had dodged worse attacks before.
 
And how often does He-Man use these in-character? We need to stop the bad habit of assuming that the character knows exactly what hax they have is most broken against the opponent. What they show should go unless they are bloodlusted or have no consistent showings. He-Man is a warrior who fights with his sword. Tomura Shigaraki, on the other hand, abuses his hax. There is a difference that should be noted.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@abbadon Waffle just told you how Goku can win, not to mention that Goku had dodged worse attacks before.
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I'll put it simply Goku's chance of winning is lower than he mans.
 
@abbadon no it's not, the AP thing for He-Man was debunked, and Goku has dodged far worse attacks that would've oneshotted him in his incomplete UI.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
And how often does He-Man use these in-character? We need to stop the bad habit of assuming that the character knows exactly what hax they have is most broken against the opponent. What they show should go unless they are bloodlusted or have no consistent showings. He-Man is a warrior who fights with his sword. Tomura Shigaraki, on the other hand, abuses his hax. There is a difference that should be noted.
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^^^^^

This right here is perfect.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
And how often does He-Man use these in-character? We need to stop the bad habit of assuming that the character knows exactly what hax they have is most broken against the opponent. What they show should go unless they are bloodlusted or have no consistent showings. He-Man is a warrior who fights with his sword. Tomura Shigaraki, on the other hand, abuses his hax. There is a difference that should be noted.
Click to expand...

That made no sense.

It doesn't matter if he uses them in character we're here trying to figure out what character wins the most times out of let's say 10, and with his abilities he-man will win most of the time, if slashing doesn't work he'll try what works which is existence erasure.

Also I'm pretty sure these characters would know since most of the time when the character used their strongest ability it was at the climax of the show to defeat his/her strongest enemy (which is the case for he man) so when he realizes goku is strong he'll take him seriously and use his strongest move.
 
"It makes no sense to account for what the character would use in a battle, we're trying to find out which one wins in a battle."

^That is essentially your post. He has never used Existence Erasure or any of his serious hax to my knowledge. Those powers are shown when Skeletor unleashes its full power, and thus He-Man should have them if he was bloodlusted, but if he is never shown doing so he wouldn't use them normally. If he did, he would just delete Skeletor, who is consistently a huge threat to him. Even though he wants to defeat Skeletor and knows how dangerous he is, he still doesn't use it.

Saying "but he would because Goku is strong" doesn't matter. Skeletor is strong. He didn't use it on him. He-Man isn't using them in this fight.
 
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