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Goku VS He-Man

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Then my vote still stands, I don't why a Post-Rage Boost MUI Goku wouldn't win, also we still have to wait for the final episode and so we can see what Goku has in store there
 
Dangai Ichigo said:
Then my vote still stands, I don't why a Post-Rage Boost MUI Goku wouldn't win, also we still have to wait for the final episode and so we can see what Goku has in store there
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Goku won't have MUI in the final episode. He lost the form at the end of the episode.
 
Now it's 14 for Goku and 13 for He-Man. 22 hours more of this stalemate and I'm gonna request this to be added as an inconclusive match.
 
Self Love said:
Stryk3r1337 said:
Oh boi.....but that character can't bypass mid-godly, can it? :P
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Xenoverse? That stuff is not canon brah
Anyway yeah future warrior loses

Not to derail, but who is that character? And he really can bypass mid-godly?

And yeah, I know it's non canon
 
With all due respect, what the FRA that goku can win?

Higher AP? Debunked, He Man is 'at least' his tier and goku is just 'barely' in his tier.

More fighting experience? Yeah no. Maybe when it comes to years, but He-Man fights haxy beings on the regular, so at best this is inconclusive.

Resistance to EE? Not at the level described. Heck, Beerus hakai has only been shown to work on tier 3 beings, so it is probably not gonna work against He Man. That is classic NLF.

UI? UI is powerful, and it is not to be underestimated. But it is not impervious. Goku can dodge, sure, but he tried to block He-Mans sword, as outlined above, he will probably be killed in one shot.

And this is not including the fact assuming that Goku and He Man, even against all logic, that if they were the exact same in ap that Goku would have to pummel him to death. He-Man can literally just one shot.

UI isnt a reason in its self to win, you can't give only one reason for a character to win imo.

I will give you multiple reasons why He Man can win

He-Man because higher tiered EE, reality warping, more versatility, likely higher AP and durabilty (iffy on the last one)

Goku has...what? UI.

One hit and he is dead. If he can win, it will be very, very hard for him since he will have to resort to pummeling He-Man to death.
 
Not to derail, but who is that character? And he really can bypass mid-godly?

And yeah, I know it's non canon

Pick your poison

Helios can bypass mid-godly and apparently destroy non-existence

Dagoth Ur read his profile
 
@kinky you forget that an Incomplete UI was able to dodge a danmaku blast from Kefla, and each blast would've one shotted him. A sword isn't that big of a deal for goku since he dodges much more deadlier attacks in his weaker state.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@kinky you forget that an Incomplete UI was able to dodge a danmaku blast from Kefla, and each blast would've one shotted him. A sword isn't that big of a deal for goku since he dodges much more deadlier attacks in his weaker state.
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When was it stated that it could one shot? At best that is an assumption.

Also, I am doubtful even if it was stated that it could, Kefla also did ANOTHER danmaku blast just before he went UI and he blocked all of them

Impressive? Sure, but it aint a one shot.
 
Goku isn't "barely" in his tier. He's quite above baseline. I never said Goku had the AP advantage. Reality Warping and EE aren't used in character. And, as stated many many many times before in this thread, Goku can probably land a finishing blow before He-Man can land a hit with his sword. This isn't UI Omen. MUI Goku has great offense as well as defense. In fact, Goku doesn't even have to kill him. He can just hit him hard enough for him to revert back to Prince Adam. Regarding resistance to EE, since Hakai doesn't work on tier 2, should we give Kefla Resistance to EE based on the fact that she's Tier 2? Anyway, I still stick with my vote; Goku takes this with high difficulty.
 
Stryk3r1337 said:
Goku isn't "barely" in his tier. He's quite above baseline. I never said Goku had the AP advantage. Reality Warping and EE aren't used in character. And, as stated many many many times before in this thread, Goku can probably land a finishing blow before He-Man can land a hit with his sword. This isn't UI Omen. MUI Goku has great offense as well as defense. In fact, Goku doesn't even have to kill him. He can just hit him hard enough for him to revert back to Prince Adam. Regarding resistance to EE, since Hakai doesn't work on tier 2, should we give Kefla Resistance to EE based on the fact that she's Tier 2?
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Yeah, in comparison to He-Man he is barely in his tier.

Remember when he was High 3-A? If it wasn't for the Kai's statement, he would still be that level.

I also never said you said he had one, are you projecting dude?

I also doubt in character is an argument, SBA applies here

"In character, but willing to kill."

So he just uses EE eventually and one shots

Goku can 'probably' land a blow, doubt it will kill him,

With what, his higher AP? Oh right, that was debunked.

And tbh, I doubt he can 'hit him hard enough' to revert back to Prince Adam.

You are moving the goal post dude, stop it.

At best, you can get either an inconclusive or He-Man victory.

You can't say that he can 'one shot' or 'get him out of prince adam' if he doesn't have the higher ap.

That makes no sense at all.
 
Self Love said:
Not to derail, but who is that character? And he really can bypass mid-godly?

And yeah, I know it's non canon
Click to expand...
Pick your poison
Helios can bypass mid-godly and apparently destroy non-existence

Dagoth Ur read his profile

Isn't Helios Low 2-C?

And the only thing I see on Dagoth's profile that can bypass regen is Disease manipulation. Let's not derail further. We can continue this discussion on my message wall.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
@Kink
Stated right here.
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As stated earlier, I am also doubting this claim considering he blocked shots from Kefla previously before.

And also, this is from Master Roshi. He is smart, but this is also the guy who also said that Vegeta SS2 was beyond Goku SS3.

If this was supporting evidence for a larger claim,I will give it to you.

But just one statement? I doubt its credible.

I could occams razor it, but I have my doubts and I don't think I am being unreasonable.

For the record, I dont even like He-Man and I love Goku.

But using just UI as an argument really isnt debunking my points, it would just mean this fight lasts a 'lot longer' before He Man one shots.
 
"this is from Master Roshi. He is smart, but this is also the guy who also said that Vegeta SS2 was beyond Goku SS3." wasn't that true?
 
I rewatched episode 116 and I don't remember Kefla landing a single blow on UI Omen Goku. And referring to the Roshi statement of SSJ2 Vegeta>SSJ3 Goku, he said that after Vegeta's rage boost after Bulma got slapped in the BoG movie. This statement was corroborated by Goku at the end of the BoG movie, so Roshi isn't wrong there.
 
How in the world does Goku have inferior AP of all things? As one of the main people who helped to implement the He-Man downgrades myself, I can tell you with certainty that He-Man is only a little ways above base Low 2-C (fought someone who was semi-casually Low 2-C, i.e. Skeletor with the Power Sword, in theory should also be capable of that level of power given he owns it.) Goku, meanwhile, is several degrees of Low 2-C above baseline. If nothing else, he certainly takes the power/toughness advantages.
 
ThePerpetual said:
How in the world does Goku have inferior AP of all things? As one of the main people who helped to implement the He-Man downgrades myself, I can tell you with certainty that He-Man is only a little ways above base Low 2-C (fought someone who was semi-casually Low 2-C, i.e. Skeletor with the Power Sword, in theory should also be capable of that level of power given he owns it.) Goku, meanwhile, is several degrees of Low 2-C above baseline. If nothing else, he certainly takes the power/toughness advantages.
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Funny thing is that thread was meant to upgrade He-Man to 2-A and Azzy instead downgraded it to Low 2-C. I'm strongly considering calling Azzy.
 
ThePerpetual said:
How in the world does Goku have inferior AP of all things? As one of the main people who helped to implement the He-Man downgrades myself, I can tell you with certainty that He-Man is only a little ways above base Low 2-C (fought someone who was semi-casually Low 2-C, i.e. Skeletor with the Power Sword, in theory should also be capable of that level of power given he owns it.) Goku, meanwhile, is several degrees of Low 2-C above baseline. If nothing else, he certainly takes the power/toughness advantages.
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Then by this logic, you should consider making a CRT to give goku the same reasoning

If he is theoritically this level, fine.

But tbh, this sounds like moving the goal post.

Goku with UI is Low 2-C, but I dont think we should ever consider a long list of people that power scale to be stronger one another anything other then baseline.

Also, same logic applies with what you just said

At best, the two are even on paper.

Also, power scaling to get an 'answer' above 'several degrees above baseline' is not something I am a fan off, especially in an argument.

Casual Goku Omen vs Jiren is High 3-A by feats, and he is Low 2-C via statements that Jiren > God of Destruction

Other then that, we know jack nothing other then Goku > Jiren currently.

Even if even, it comes down to one shot vs multiple shots.

I can concede an inconclusive, but to be fair, I have yet to see concrete evidence other then statements and powerscaling that prove He-Man < Goku in power.
 
And how was I projecting? I just stated another way in which Goku can win. He-Man as Prince Adam cannot beat Goku. How is that moving the goalposts? You can also explain your point without being rude. Higher AP wasn't even my argument. You don't necessarily need a higher AP to win, things like durability count as well and He-Mans durability isn't high enough that Goku's attacks will do little or no damage to him.
 
Huesito88 said:
"this is from Master Roshi. He is smart, but this is also the guy who also said that Vegeta SS2 was beyond Goku SS3." wasn't that true?
Click to expand...
True by a statement, but Roshi via the plot had no reason to know this.

Goku was training in the outer world, Vegeta was on earth.

How would he know?

LUL he just does because he can sense Ki? I dont buy that one bit, especially since when he finally did meet goku, he wasn't releasing all of his power

Just because it wasn't proven true doesn't mean that Roshi said this within reason.
 
Here's a good question, how exactly does He-Man's existence erasure/possession work? And how likely is he to use those in-character under these circumstances?
 
Stryk3r1337 said:
And how was I projecting? I just stated another way in which Goku can win. He-Man as Prince Adam cannot beat Goku. How is that moving the goalposts? You can also explain your point without being rude. Higher AP wasn't even my argument. You don't necessarily need a higher AP to win, things like durability count as well and He-Mans durability isn't high enough that Goku's attacks will do little or no damage to him.
Click to expand...
Because you need Higher AP to knock him out of his prince adam form, that is the deal with how he gets his powers.

If you can do it, GREAT! Goodbye he man

But you are literally making one claim (Goku can knock out He-Man) that has to be linked to another (Goku thus must have higher AP.)


And because obviously I didnt accuse you directly? I never accused anyone. I just think the FRA is obviously dubious


No, you dont always need higher ap to win, that is why we hav e'hax stomp'

And they both have the same durability....maybe....

I can concede this one is iffy,but just because you can tank something doesn't make it a reason to win

Especially if your opponent has Reality Warping and EE.
 
ThePerpetual said:
Here's a good question, how exactly does He-Man's existence erasure/possession work? And how likely is he to use those in-character under these circumstances?
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Admitedly, rarely.

But SBA applies.

If we changed the rules for just this one match, I will have a field day removing matchups because "lul not in character."
 
@kinky >>Roshi by plot had no reason to know this.

Uhh, Roshi was there and sensed Goku's energy when he went ssj3. And he was also there when ssj2 vegeta was enraged, how is that not valid when he's sensed both powers??
 
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