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Again, do you have proof of it affecting nerves (Even though that shouldn't really be an argument, considering Goku's already resisted that)?
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Goku fights a genuine demon
- Thread starter Spinoirr
- Start date
GodlyCharmander
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You put "Gas" with a upper case, I thought it was a character, rightfully so.
Could you please provide evidence that it does that?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Here. And Goku never resisted his nerves being shut down (unless you can prove it, which you didn't yet)
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Fair point, but you also haven't made any attempt at making a counter-argument against these points mentioned. Not that it should really matter, since all four methods of attack you argued for are either OOC or inapplicable.
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I'll vote goku. Reminder that 3rd sign has like 30 seconds of active time at most before turning MUI and blitz stomping.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Goku only turned MUI after being pushed by Jiren. Without it he may not turn MUI at all while using UIS3
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Who's to say the same won't apply here? With the two being basically equal in AP, and DD edging out a bit more in Durability, that would still force Goku to transform into MUI. MUI shouldn't even be argued about, since the OP restricted it for now. I also don't agree that his time limit is only 30 seconds since we've seen it last far longer before he went to MUI.
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Gilad_Hyperstar
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Nothing really stops Devil Doom from teleporting to the comet, causing Goku to be paralysed, especially when he did teleport the coment to Earth to paralyse the heroes when he fought then upon aquiring all the Emeralds
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Again, same logic can be applied to the BFR. If he hasn't done it to Shadow throughout the entire fight, then he isn't doing it to Goku. And that also seems majorly OOC for him, even compared to the whole BFR argument.
The paralyzing gas just sounds like standard paralyzing darts, with the whole 'affecting your nerves' part. It shouldn't really matter, since Ki is also linked to a person's life-force and can be applied throughout their entire body, and Goku resists paralysis. It's like you're making his paralyzing gas out to be some sort of cellular variation of it, which it isn't.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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How is it OOC when that's literally the first thing he did when using all of the Emeralds? Maybe with the BFR I could understand, but not this, especially since he doesn't need to teleport something that is already there, since he did it before he fight with Super Shadow
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That wasn't the first thing he did when he obtained all the Chaos Emeralds, I already explained to you about that. The gas isn't some special variant of your standard paralyzing agent and neither is his go-to move being using the Black Comet. If you can't understand that then that's really on you, man. If it was cellular paralysis, or something similar, then I'd believe you on that part.
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Noooo. Goku was learning ui more and more until he peaked, he just needs time to activate it. At the very most 2 minutes.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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The gas came from the Comet interacting with Earth's atmosphere. And that was something he used before Shadow broke out of the paralysis and turned Super so he definitely planned to beat Shadow using paralysis in characters. And considering Black Doom teleported the comet to Earth so he'd defeat Shadow and kill him, I see no reason why he wouldn't do it to Goku
Goku never resisted something like that gas, nor he has a resistance to biological manipulation, so he isn't resisting it. If you do, provide proof, since so far I saw none from you
GodlyCharmander
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Jackie Chun's paralysis seems to do that according to Daizenshuu 7
"A technique that prevents the opponent from moving their body. Depending on the user, the method of using it and its effect are completely different. General Blue’s version was only effective against a single opponent. It took effect when his opponent stared into his eyes. Chaozu held out both his hands, causing stomach pain in the targeted person that stopped them from moving. Jacky’s technique was said to poke a pressure point on the forehead, paralyzing the person’s motor nerves."
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Shadow was never paralyzed, he was mind controlled. Black Doom even stated this. His plan also was never to even use the Comet against Shadow, it was to really enslave humanity and serve as sustenance for his army. The Comet was also teleported onto Earth's surface where it then released its paralyzing gas, not from interacting with Earth's atmosphere.
Nowhere on Black Doom's profile does it state he has biological manipulation. And if you look at Shadow's resistances, it even says he has resistance to biological manipulation due to overpowering Black Doom’s mind control off of sheer willpower. The resistance to the gas is completely separate, and nothing states its supposed 'nerve shutting' components are any better than just your standard paralysis in Dragon Ball.
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GodlyCharmander
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I am also very positive that any electrical paralysis (such as Roshi's Electric paralysis, and Piccolo's) hit the nerves directly.
As stated here. *"A shock can affect the nervous system
Nerves are tissue that offers very little resistance to the passage of an electric current."*
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Devil Doom FRA
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For what reason? All points brought up have been argued against.
GodlyCharmander
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They might disagree with you.
Don't question people's votes unless you have proven your point beyond reasonable doubt.
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Sure they can disagree, but not being able to question their vote if they don't give a proper reason? That doesn't make sense to me.
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Devil Doom FRA, the gas shuts down someone's nervous system
Goku's resistance doesn't cover this, and Black Doom was using the gas during the final fight, Shadow just resisted it
I really don't understand these counter arguments
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Why is a eletrical current being compared to a biological gas that directly affects the bloodstream of someone? Plus the gas was literally causing the characters to lose counciousness
At the (2:30) minute mark
Plus Black Doom DID BFR Shadow, like, right at the start of the game
(4:45)
Why is this being argued as "OOC"?
And Black Doom can also send Goku into a illusion like he did with Shadow earlier in the game
(4:20 haha funny meme number)
It's like 90% of the game is being ignored in this thread to just focus on the final battle
At the (2:30) minute mark
Plus Black Doom DID BFR Shadow, like, right at the start of the game
(4:45)
Why is this being argued as "OOC"?
And Black Doom can also send Goku into a illusion like he did with Shadow earlier in the game
(4:20 haha funny meme number)
It's like 90% of the game is being ignored in this thread to just focus on the final battle
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Wrong based on the jap version
(3:37)
Which also states it's affects even the cells, how about that
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He was never using the gas during the fight. Nothing had even shown the slightest hint at him using it. If anything, the atmosphere was changed because of the invasiveness of the the Black Arms. You see it from the very start of the game
(Right at 2:55, also note how Devil Doom mentions how it won't be long before the gas spreads across the entire earth. Do you have proof they were fighting in the gas at the time?)
And what source states he's capable of manipulating the gas offensively? As far as I'm aware, I haven't seen a source that stated as much. Not from his profile, or in other wikis.
DaimaouAshura
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That gas irrelevant, would never even come near Goku in MUI. If DD spammed it Goku can avoid it ten thousand ways with flight. At most covered a planet, flying to the upper atmosphere would make it stupidly easy to fly around and void. Man also has that Aura technique even in base form that coats his body from poisons in general, even from direct contact with an enemy.
DaimaouAshura
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And being real, all the talk for DD paralyzing Goku but man's got no resistance to God Bind either, if Goku does that he's now a punching bag.
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Bro did I hear gas? That shit get's blown away by a passive aura lolmaorofl.
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If it's a "biological gas" then it should be listed as such. Neither Black Doom's nor Shadow's profile state the gas being biological. Why is the gas even being argued for? He never once used it offensively. It only ever came from the Black comet.
Cool, so why didn't he do it again as a much stronger Devil Doom? Gilad tried making an argument about how little that would affect Shadow, yet here Black Doom is BFRing him.
Have you not read what I've previously said, multiple times? I had to go back and forth with Gilad on that.
Yeah, Black Doom can. But Devil Doom never did. Why are you arguing for a move DD didn't do against Shadow?
It's like you haven't been reading the entire thread thoroughly, only skimming through certain posts.
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He says nerve cells, which can easily be interpreted as nerves. The dub even said so. Again, the gas came from the Comet. The Black Comet isn't standard equipment for him, so why would he even be able to use it in the first place here? Especially as Devil Doom?
Another thing. Goku had also fought against Hit, whose entire move set revolves around attacking the opponents vitals points (i.e their nerves).
Against Vegeta.
Against Goku.
And against Frost.
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Bro I literally quoted him during the final battle verbatim stating he used the gas, what the hell is this argument?
Here, blatantly Eggman says the gas was affecting them during the final battle
I don't know, maybe the characters EXPLICIT SAYING THEY WERE BEING AFFECTED BY THE GAS AS THEY WERE FIGHTING? Just a small, little maybe.
The gas spreads across the atmosphere. You want him to airbend the gas inside Goku's nose? As far as I know Goku needs to breath
Profiles aren't WoG, plus there's a thread adding them right now in fact. He literally used it offensevely to stop Sonic and Co from attacking him
Please stop making arguments in ignorance
Because Super Shadow can use Chaos Control, the fact he did earlier and didn't stop Shadow should be a clue why he didn't do it again. It's like versus debators don't think characters think, they are just robots who can only act in the same way
And your points are garbage. Literally arguments from copium and ignorance
Black Doom IS Devil Doom, they are the same person. Why would he use that move again when Shadow already went through it? It would do nothing. It's like asking why he didn't try mind control again when that was show to not work
Nerve cells are CELLS dude, take off your copium, it's celular anyways. Devil Doom literally only showed up as the Black Comet was on Earth's atmosphere, so he would especially have it here.
God, these arguments are terrible. Worse than usual.
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The gas should have zero effect, especially if Goku can simply just blow it away with a kiai, his aura, or another form of offense.
(At 11:39. Just from combining Kaioken with SSB, Goku unleashed a great amount of air pressure. Who's to say the same won't just happen here?)
(At 11:39. Just from combining Kaioken with SSB, Goku unleashed a great amount of air pressure. Who's to say the same won't just happen here?)
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Also to people saying that the gas can just be "blow away"
It's a planetary gas, it even affected Eggman's lava shelter located underground after sometime. Goku wouldn't be able to "run away". And eventually he would need to breathe despite his aura and unlike Black Doom he can't survive in space.
Like, I can't just say that Devil Doom could outrange him in deep space, he canonically uses Chaos Control to get away from Shadow in his fight, so that would be completely in character too
It's a planetary gas, it even affected Eggman's lava shelter located underground after sometime. Goku wouldn't be able to "run away". And eventually he would need to breathe despite his aura and unlike Black Doom he can't survive in space.
Like, I can't just say that Devil Doom could outrange him in deep space, he canonically uses Chaos Control to get away from Shadow in his fight, so that would be completely in character too
DaimaouAshura
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Lavender technique was also a gas, and more combat-applicable than this because he could take it a step up from throwing gas at the enemy and coat his hands and legs to apply directly. NEITHER of them had any use against Goku after his developed aura technique on the fly.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Goku only countered it after he knew about what the gas do and how to counter it. He already got knowledge on Lavender when this happen so it won't apply here.
Goku doesn't know Black Doom can do this and will get paralysed as a result
DaimaouAshura
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Goku could absolutely fly away to upper atmosphere at least. Even if that thing covered the entire planet to fight. Couple this with MUI dodging, ki blasting away gas and his aura technique (and God Bind, which is a BETTER paralysis as it doesn't need to connect, just Goku pointing his hands). Gas is a no factor.
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Lavender's gas didn't affect the entire planet passively, plus Gohan literally jobbed to it without prior knoweledge, barely snagging a win
Like, Goku blows away the gas with his aura, then what? He still needs to breath. He just holds his breath forever?
DaimaouAshura
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Goku will see an enemy covering the planet or blasting him with a deadly gas and assume it's perfectly normal? XD Give my man some credit bro.
DaimaouAshura
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Nah he holds it as long as he did fighting against Beerus in BOG because you CAN'T breathe in the upper atmosphere of the planet as there's no oxygen there. Gohan jobbing is a non-factor, we're arguing Goku here.
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The Devil Doom would just outrange him in deep space after teleporting away with Chaos Control. This is also assuming he will immediately know Devil Doom emits a gas that would freeze his nerve and immediately knowing he needs to go the upper atmosphere to dodge it
Gilad_Hyperstar
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The gas was invisible. He ain't seeing anything. Did you even watched the scene?
