Goku fights a genuine demon

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

They're arguing the explosion killed Vegeta.

That is wrong, that wasn't why he died

and Vegeta didn't die in 0.5 seconds from lack of oxygen, so he'd still be alive when Beerus was discussing

Vegeta would most likely be dying very quickly. It takes only few seconds to get knocked out before dying and death comes shortly after

So Vegeta just instantly dies just by being in a place without oxygen. It takes 0 seconds for his brain to go W A C K Y?

Not instantly, but very quickly, like how anyone that can't breathe in space would. Besides, that doesn't change my argument. Even if it took minutes for Vegeta to die, it is a fact he can't breathe in space, and more proof is in the Namek Saga where Goku would've died had he not escaped Namek

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

this feat isn't really valid then for the argument at all...as the vacuum would indeed kill Vegeta in about 15 seconds with holding his breath

The vaccum will also suck the air from Vegeta's lungs as gases flow from high to low pressure, killing Vegeta even faster

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Citing an example, not a counter, to show that durability scales dont make much sense

Both your examples don't justify that conclusion.
Bulma doesn't scale to Beerus AP by taking a casual slap not meant to kill her.
And the laser is from an alien technology and has no set AP.

Base Form goku still has God Ki

... And?

....

he very much was, otherwise he'd not have given frieza a chance, Vegeta isnt an idiot

He wasn't "off guard". Why would he lower his ki when he was about to kill someone?

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Both your examples don't justify that conclusion.

yet it's not a conclusion.. it's purposefully meant to show that your argument is ridiculous in a verse where the writers dont watch their own power scaling, and still use planetary stuff and mountain stuff as supposedly impressive

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

... And?

hence, he IS a godly empowered character

 

[GodlyCharmander]

yet it's not a conclusion.. it's purposefully meant to show that your argument is ridiculous in a verse where the writers dont watch their own power scaling, and still use planetary stuff and mountain stuff as supposedly impressive

Again, your examples don't reflect that at all.

"Base Goku was hurt by an alien laser with unknown energy"

"Beerus tries to harms Bulma and accomplishes it"

Those were poor examples, is all I'm saying.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Devil Doom FRA

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Btw, one minute is quite some time for characters at these speeds, so I'll put my money on Goku.

 

[JED]

DD FRA. I also should add with the teleport spam, he does that whenever his opponent gets to close, so when he sees Goku come to him he’ll just instantly CC away. He can honestly just run out the time limit like that not including the abilities Gilad listed above.

 

[sanicspood]

Exactly my point... and Xenoverse Goku and Xeno Goku are not the same person at all, Xeno Goku and SDBH isn't even canon to Xenoverse

Wacky thing is this just got accepted on a revision

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

DD FRA. I also should add with the teleport spam, he does that whenever his opponent gets to close, so when he sees Goku come to him he’ll just instantly CC away. He can honestly just run out the time limit like that not including the abilities Gilad listed above.

Goku can IT spam to negate that

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Wacky thing is this just got accepted on a revision

I N T E R N A L S C R E A M I N G


please tell me they aren't hurting my child with that SDBH shit...

 

[sanicspood]

any dbx character who scales to dbx trunks will scale to sdbh characters I think

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I vote Devil Doom as well. Goku will have a hard time doing damage to him as he starts in UI-Sign 3, and he could only last for a minute in that form or in Perfected UI. Devil Doom is much more versatile and stronger than him

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

any dbx character who scales to dbx trunks will scale to sdbh characters I think

No.

 

[sanicspood]

Pain

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

this is a good fight honestly,goku fra anyway

 

[GodlyCharmander]

This is becoming Goku vs Natsu 2.0

Btw, would it be fair if advancing to MUI was allowed?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

This is becoming Goku vs Natsu 2.0

Btw, would it be fair if advancing to MUI was allowed?

Given the gap between MUI and UI Sign 3, I dom't think so since Goku will have a big AP gap over Devil Doom

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Given the gap between MUI and UI Sign 3, I dom't think so since Goku will have a big AP gap over Devil Doom

It's not that wide. It goes from hurting Jiren to drawing blood from him.
The problem would be speed I guess.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Given the gap between MUI and UI Sign 3, I dom't think so since Goku will have a big AP gap over Devil Doom

It would definitely be fair if your points on DD's supposed BFR hold ground, since Goku wouldn't exactly be able to counter that with his IT.

And for the point brought up about DD's teleportation spam, he hasn't done that at all in his fight. Even when Shadow was in physical range, all DD did was attack him for a while before teleporting away. He doesn't spam it.

DD only scales to Shadow who is "half 2-C", same with Goku. The only edge in the physical department DD has is his durability (which Goku can quickly overcome due to his RPL allowing him to grow stronger and faster with each strike).

And his BFR seems OOC as DD's never shown to perform it. Even if it was because he knew Shadow was capable of returning with Chaos Control, he still chose to widen the distance between him and Shadow. I would think he'd also try to BFR Shadow away just to buy time, since his profile doesn't state him being any less intelligent.

My vote is still on Goku.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

any dbx character who scales to dbx trunks will scale to sdbh characters I think

I have a lot of clearing up to do on this statement... and just... AAAAAAA

 

[AStrangeverse]

It would definitely be fair if your points on DD's supposed BFR hold ground, since Goku wouldn't exactly be able to counter that with his IT.

And for the point brought up about DD's teleportation spam, he hasn't done that at all in his fight. Even when Shadow was in physical range, all DD did was attack him for a while before teleporting away. He doesn't spam it.

DD only scales to Shadow who is "half 2-C", same with Goku. The only edge in the physical department DD has is his durability (which Goku can quickly overcome due to his RPL allowing him to grow stronger and faster with each strike).

And his BFR seems OOC as DD since he's never shown to perform it. Even if it was because he knew Shadow was capable of returning with Chaos Control, he still chose to widen the distance between him and Shadow. I would think he'd also try to BFR Shadow away just to buy time, since his profile doesn't state him being any less intelligent.

My vote is still on Goku.

I also completely forgot to mention that DD's profile states his range is only Universal+ with abilities. No where does it state his Chaos Control's BFR is 2-C in range. Goku's IT has Interdimensional range, which is supposedly rated higher than Universal+. I'm not sure if this is an error made on the profile or if it's concrete, but this should completely rule out the BFR argument.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Goku's IT has Interdimensional range, which is supposedly rated higher than Universal+.

I believe thats only in noncanon material

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

outside of video games, the range limit for IT has been very consistent at bound to his current universe

 

[AStrangeverse]

I believe thats only in noncanon material

Ah, ok. Sorry for reading that wrong then. Though my other point still stands.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Yeah, but it's still just Universal+ range on IT...

 

[AStrangeverse]

Yeah, but it's still just Universal+ range on IT...

I'm not referring to the range IT, I mean the likelihood of DD BFRing

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I believe thats only in noncanon material

IT to the other world... Yeah, no. That's canon
What's stopping Goku from screaming his way through the dimensions like Gotenks did?

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

What's stopping Goku from screaming his way through the dimensions like Gotenks did?

the HBTC is still part of U7

IT to the other world... Yeah, no. That's canon

thats still part of the same U7

 

[GodlyCharmander]

the HBTC is still part of U7

Now, that's straight up wrong. It is a entirely separate space-time.

thats still part of the same U7

It's still located in another dimension, if I am not mistaken. He can still use it to open portals to other dimensions.

 

[DaimaouAshura]

Devil Doom also can breathe in space while Goku can't. If Devil Doom teleports into Space Goku wouldn't be able to follow.

Unsure if anyone's answered this but man's fought Beerus across the universe in BoG. Man can.

 

[AStrangeverse]

Now, that's straight up wrong. It is a entirely separate space-time.

Didn't members of this wiki go over the whole "HBTC being its own space-time" argument already?

 

[AStrangeverse]

IIRC that was one of the few points brought up to try and upgrade Goku and a few others to 2-C

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

1. Goku has never been shown to be able to use Vice shout

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

2. The otherworld is linked directly to the universe's physical realm, rather than being simply another dimension

 

[DaimaouAshura]

1. Goku has never been shown to be able to use Vice shout

Higher numbers on the scouter than Buu or Gotenks lets you do it
Vegeta for one blew up the time chamber from inside, for all we know he used Vice shout on crack to do it.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Higher numbers on the scouter than Buu or Gotenks lets you do it
Vegeta for one blew up the time chamber from inside, for all we know he used Vice shout on crack to do it.

Goku doesn't even know how vice shout works or how to do it, or that it's even possible

 

[GodlyCharmander]

2. The otherworld is linked directly to the universe's physical realm, rather than being simply another dimension

It's linked through the door, which was DESTROYED, thus ending any link between the dimensions as stated by Piccolo after he did it.

Didn't members of this wiki go over the whole "HBTC being its own space-time" argument already?

No. It's a separate dimension linked through a portal. What was debunked, is that the HBTC was universal-sized.

 

[AStrangeverse]

No. It's a separate dimension linked through a portal. What was debunked, is that the HBTC was universal-sized.

Ok