Goku fights a genuine demon

[Spinoirr]

UI sign Goku vs Devil Doom

• Speed is equal
• Both are low 2-C

Son Goku: 9
Devil Doom: 6
Icon:

 

[Spinoirr]

Bump

 

[AStrangeverse]

Is Goku in his 3rd UI Sign?

 

[Spinoirr]

Is Goku in his 3rd UI Sign?

Yeah

 

[AStrangeverse]

Aight. Here's my two cents.

Scaling:
From what I've read on a few threads regarding the whole "half 2-C" scaling thing for Dragon Ball, Goku in his 3rd UI Sign seems to scale to Beerus (who is half apparently half 2-C).

Devil Doom somewhat scales to Super Shadow for engaging him in combat. Shadow also apparently being half 2-C. The scaling for that is a bit weird, but I'd assume it would look like this for these two:

Goku (3rd UI Sign) = Beerus (Half 2-C)

Devil Doom's Durability >> Super Shadow (Half 2-C) >= Devil Doom

Their AP is relatively close, if not dead even. Since Devil Doom's profile states Super Shadow's attack couldn't do any particular noteworthy damage without damaging the eye, it shouldn't be far-fetched to say that DD's durability exceeds his AP.

Battle:
The boss fight against DD shows that he just starts with using his TK to levitate meteoric rocks that fire beams of energy, along with himself breathing fire. Goku has instinctive reactions in this form, so dodging those wouldn't be a real problem for him. And as formidable as DD is, he doesn't abuse his teleportation, only ever occasionally doing it after being attacked for a bit. But even if he did teleport away, Goku can just tail right after him. Devil Doom's Time Stop also wouldn't affect Goku, since he has a layered resistance to it.

After the initial few blows, Goku would catch on that his attacks aren't exactly doing anything and opt for finding weak points because of his masterful prowess in martial arts. His insane RPL would also immediately kick in, so even if he doesn't find the weak point in time, his speed and strength would've grown to a point he'd be able to overwhelm Devil Doom. This isn't even mentioning him advancing to MUI.

Despite the time limit Goku has in UI, he's basically bloodlusted in the form. So he's not going to just stall for the entirety of that duration, but instead attempt to finish the fight quickly.

Opinion:
All in all, I'd have to give it to Goku more often than not. The advantage he has in sheer skill on top of utilizing UI's advantages seems to completely override anything DD can throw at him. So if it isn't a stomp, then I'm voting for Goku.

 

[Spinoirr]

Removed the fact he can go perfected ultra instinct to make it more fair

 

[AStrangeverse]

Aight.

 

[sanicspood]

Aight. Here's my two cents.

Scaling:
From what I've read on a few threads regarding the whole "half 2-C" scaling thing for Dragon Ball, Goku in his 3rd UI Sign seems to scale to Beerus (who is half apparently half 2-C).

Devil Doom somewhat scales to Super Shadow for engaging him in combat. Shadow also apparently being half 2-C. The scaling for that is a bit weird, but I'd assume it would look like this for these two:

Goku (3rd UI Sign) = Beerus (Half 2-C)

Devil Doom's Durability >> Super Shadow (Half 2-C) >= Devil Doom

Their AP is relatively close, if not dead even. Since Devil Doom's profile states Super Shadow's attack couldn't do any particular noteworthy damage without damaging the eye, it shouldn't be far-fetched to say that DD's durability exceeds his AP.

Battle:
The boss fight against DD shows that he just starts with using his TK to levitate meteoric rocks that fire beams of energy, along with himself breathing fire. Goku has instinctive reactions in this form, so dodging those wouldn't be a real problem for him. And as formidable as DD is, he doesn't abuse his teleportation, only ever occasionally doing it after being attacked for a bit. But even if he did teleport away, Goku can just tail right after him. Devil Doom's Time Stop also wouldn't affect Goku, since he has a layered resistance to it.

After the initial few blows, Goku would catch on that his attacks aren't exactly doing anything and opt for finding weak points because of his masterful prowess in martial arts. His insane RPL would also immediately kick in, so even if he doesn't find the weak point in time, his speed and strength would've grown to a point he'd be able to overwhelm Devil Doom. This isn't even mentioning him advancing to MUI.

Despite the time limit Goku has in UI, he's basically bloodlusted in the form. So he's not going to just stall for the entirety of that duration, but instead attempt to finish the fight quickly.

Opinion:
All in all, I'd have to give it to Goku more often than not. The advantage he has in sheer skill on top of utilizing UI's advantages seems to completely override anything DD can throw at him. So if it isn't a stomp, then I'm voting for Goku.

this is an really good analysis

 

[Coolboy6]

Yeah, Goku is more skilled and has instinctive reactions here. Plus that RPL will be a huge problem for the demon.
Goku FRA

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

what's the BFR on devil doom do in this case?


Edit: also, yes, Im back

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

If Devil Doom BFR's Goku, then he wouldn't be able to return, so he can easily do that if he sees Time Stop doesn't work.

Besides, Goku could only last with UI for a very limited period of time (which is about a minute based on how much time it had for the tournament when Goku battled Jiren). Goku doesn't know him or his fighting style so it would take time for him to figure this out, or that regular attacks will have little effect before eventually he drops from UI and loses instantly

Devil Doom also can breathe in space while Goku can't. If Devil Doom teleports into Space Goku wouldn't be able to follow. Also, Devil Doom has Pre-Stellar TK, so Goku wouldn't be able to escape his TK and will get immobilzed instantly. UI won't save him from that

I can see Goku winning here, but it is very situational and Devil Doom got more options such as TK, LS and AP advantage and being able to breathe in space, as well as BFR

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

I do have to argue on the space thing, as thats pretty inconsistant in dragonball

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I do have to argue on the space thing, as thats pretty inconsistant in dragonball

Not in the manga and in DBS. In the manga, Goku would've died from the explosion of Namek as he can't survive in space. In RoF, Vegeta died when Frieza blew up Earth since he can't survive in space. And don't bring BoG as they weren't actually in space. They were on the higher atmosphere, but not in space itself

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Not in the manga and in DBS. In the manga, Goku would've died from the explosion of Namek as he can't survive in space. In RoF, Vegeta died when Frieza blew up Earth since he can't survive in space. And don't bring BoG as they weren't actually in space. They were on the higher atmosphere, but not in space itself

The key is anime as 1

Also, in Z Vegeta trained on an astroid out in space, abd the atmosphere thing is sorta bs as its very clearly upper athmosphere.... which has little tp 0 oxygen

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The key is anime as 1

Anime DBS is continued from canon DBZ, not Anime DBZ

Also, in Z Vegeta trained on an astroid out in space, abd the atmosphere thing is sorta bs as its very clearly upper athmosphere.... which has little tp 0 oxygen

Can you show a scan? In the manga? There was also oxygen where Goku and Beerus battled. Not a lot but there was, and Goku had enough stamina to keep fighting despite having lower oxygen than usual. However he can't survive with no oxygen at all and this was proven in DBS Anime with Vegeta dying to Frieza blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta used SSB and Frieza was at Base form

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Anime DBS is continued from canon DBZ, not Anime DBZ

Can you show a scan? In the manga? There was also oxygen where Goku and Beerus battled. Not a lot but there was, and Goku had enough stamina to keep fighting despite having lower oxygen than usual. However he can't survive with no oxygen at all and this was proven in DBS Anime with Vegeta dying to Frieza blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta used SSB and Frieza was at Base form

Manga is a no which is not what I was referencing here, and Im pretty sure the astroid thing was off screen, 1 sec while I search


2: incredibly low oxygen, which likely isnt enough to breathe (note Im assuming this was in the ionosphere, being the top layer that would look most like what we had in BoG, which Im still trying to find compisitions for)

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Vegeta dying to Frieza blowing up the Earth even though Vegeta used SSB and Frieza was at Base form

This never happened. Bulma just assumes Vegeta is dead.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

I look a bit, and Im wrong on the astroid thing, yes, while vegeta WAS in space, he was still on a planet, so the base assumption is that it had an athmosphere, though I still think the Ionosphere thing holds

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

This never happened. Bulma just assumes Vegeta is dead.

Everyone involved died but goku, beerus, and whis, and possibly frieza

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Everyone involved died but goku, beerus, and whis, and possibly frieza

Freeza can breathe in space, and can tank the explosion. (as he literally did in Namek)

Blue Vegeta can tank the explosion and wouldnt just die in 0.1 seconds from lack of oxygen. Vegeta, 18, 17 and Freeza are all alive before Whis rewinded time.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Apparently on 1, I realized I need to rewatch super

On another note, Vegeta didnt tank it, He was very clearly labeled as dead, and whis, goku, or beerus would be able to te if her survived

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Apparently on 1, I realized I need to rewatch super

On another note, Vegeta didnt tank it, He was very clearly labeled as dead, and whis, goku, or beerus would be able to te if her survived

Base Form Freeza tanks it. (Whis states it)

Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta doesn't tank it.


MAKES. SENSE. Just kidding, it doesn't. He was labeled as dead by Bulma, she isn't a reliable source for life sensing. Beerus and Whis didn't care because they can rewind time, and Goku was probably thinking about using the dragon balls anyway

 

[JED]

I want to say DD does teleport in character, in the boss fight, when his opponent gets close to him, he teleports immediately before reappearing a significant distance away. Shadow needed to use range attacks against him.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Base Form Freeza tanks it. (Whis states it)

Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta doesn't tank it.


MAKES. SENSE. Just kidding, it doesn't. He was labeled as dead by Bulma, she isn't a reliable source for life sensing. Beerus and Whis didn't care because they can rewind time, and Goku was probably thinking about using the dragon balls anyway

We're talking a verse where laser pistols can damage godly empowered characters out of nowhere, simply because they were offguard, and characters like bulma can survive a hit from characters like beerus, that can destroy a planet at a tap... I fail to follow your reasoning, and there is literally no proof that Vegeta survived (also note that base frieza survived attacks like destruction energy, being sliced in half, being sliced into pieces, and his brother survived literally as a single scrap of flesh)

 

[GodlyCharmander]

We're talking a verse where laser pistols can damage godly empowered characters out of nowhere, simply because they were offguard

Huh? It was an alien laser damaging base form Goku. not a godly empowered character.

and characters like bulma can survive a hit from characters like beerus, that can destroy a planet at a tap... I fail to follow your reasoning.

Huh? I fail to follow yours, both examples do NOT counter or even apply here.
Beerus wasn't trying to kill Bulma, otherwise, and this might shock you, she'd have freaking died. Just because Beerus tried to HARM her, doesn't mean she should die from it, regardless of how strong Beerus is.

Here, Vegeta was not off guard, nor was he depowered.

And there is literally no proof that Vegeta survived

I don't need to prove a negative. If Base Freeza survived the explosion, it couldn't POSSIBLY have killed a character unquantifiably above him without further proof.

(also note that base frieza survived attacks like destruction energy, being sliced in half, being sliced into pieces, and his brother survived literally as a single scrap of flesh)

Base Freeza? Golden Freeza survived destruction energy.

Freeza's brother? Freeza doesn't have a brother.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Base Form Freeza tanks it. (Whis states it)

Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta doesn't tank it.

It's not the AP that killed him, it's being in outer space with no oxygen to survive. Frieza can survive in space. Vegeta and Goku can't

MAKES. SENSE. Just kidding, it doesn't. He was labeled as dead by Bulma, she isn't a reliable source for life sensing. Beerus and Whis didn't care because they can rewind time, and Goku was probably thinking about using the dragon balls anyway

Actually, Piccolo says that Frieza couldn't just die, but took the whole Planet with him, which includes Vegeta. Whis later says that Frieza didn't die, and Beerus note that Frieza's species can survive in space

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

my proof that vegeta did die is that he'd have killed frieza if he did immediately, yet W

Huh? I fail to follow yours, both examples do NOT counter or even apply here.
Beerus wasn't trying to kill Bulma, otherwise, and this might shock you, she'd have freaking died. Just because Beerus tried to HARM her, doesn't mean she should die from it, regardless of how strong Beerus is.

Citing an example, not a counter, to show that durability scales dont make much sense

Huh? It was an alien laser damaging base form Goku. not a godly empowered character.

Base Form goku still has God Ki

Here, Vegeta was not off guard,

....

he very much was, otherwise he'd not have given frieza a chance, Vegeta isnt an idiot

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Freeza doesn't have a brother.

as for the Frieza's brother, (Technically not canon), I will say... he is certainly cooler than frieza, you should give him a try

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

regardless, to get back on topic, Im voting Devil doom for BFR (Which no one has ****** explained yet)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

as for the Frieza's brother, (Technically not canon), I will say... he is certainly cooler than frieza, you should give him a try

DBS follows the canon manga. Not the non-canon anime and movie material. Cooler doesn't exist in DBS (Maybe he will like Broly, but as of now he doesn't)

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

DBS follows the canon manga. Not the non-canon anime and movie material. Cooler doesn't exist in DBS (Maybe he will like Broly, but as of now he doesn't)

Twas bringing up examples of Arcosians surviving immense injuries

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

regardless, to get back on topic, Im voting Devil doom for BFR (Which no one has ****** explained yet)

Chaos Control can BFR the opponent to a different dimension with 2-C range. Goku isn't coming back from this as IT has 3-A range at most

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Chaos Control can BFR the opponent to a different dimension with 2-C range. Goku isn't coming back from this as IT has 3-A range at most

Yeah no, Goku's IT is only potent enough in Xenoverse

 

[Spinoirr]

but would he do it?

he didn't do it in his boss fight

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah no, Goku's IT is only potent enough in Xenoverse

Xeno Goku is 2-A though, so that isn't an option, also a completely different Goku

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Voting Devil Doom on terms of "Get this **** out of my sight" grounds

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

but would he do it?

he didn't do it in his boss fight

If he would have no choice, he would. There's no reason for Devil Doom to do it to Shadow since Shadow also uses Chaos Control, even if he BFRs, Shadow would instantly return. He also know Shadow has his DNA so he wouldn't try to do it as he knows Shadow can counter it

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Xeno Goku is 2-A though, so that isn't an option, also a completely different Goku

Exactly my point... and Xenoverse Goku and Xeno Goku are not the same person at all, Xeno Goku and SDBH isn't even canon to Xenoverse

 

[GodlyCharmander]

It's not the AP that killed him, it's being in outer space with no oxygen to survive. Frieza can survive in space. Vegeta and Goku can't.

They're arguing the explosion killed Vegeta.

and Vegeta didn't die in 0.5 seconds from lack of oxygen, so he'd still be alive when Beerus was discussing

Actually, Piccolo says that Frieza couldn't just die, but took the whole Planet with him, which includes Vegeta. Whis later says that Frieza didn't die, and Beerus note that Frieza's species can survive in space

So Vegeta just instantly dies just by being in a place without oxygen. It takes 0 seconds for his brain to go W A C K Y?

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

So Vegeta just instantly dies just by being in a place without oxygen. It takes 0 seconds for his brain to go W A C K Y?

this feat isn't really valid then for the argument at all...as the vacuum would indeed kill Vegeta in about 15 seconds with holding his breath