GodlyCharmander
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Super Buu also didn't, but he used it just by wishing to leave the dimension. Also, Base Vegeta can do it just by powering up, UI Goku should be able to perform it as well.
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Goku fights a genuine demon
- Thread starter Spinoirr
- Start date
DaimaouAshura
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Being real with Goku, he's an idiot on everything but combat is his but. Also when has screaming hard and powering up not been his answer to something.
If it comes down to it man gets trapped for a mad minute, gets angry like Vegeta training inside the chamber in Super, shouts his heart out while powering up and explodes his way out.
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I wanna point out that Goku's 3rd usage of UI Sign didn't last a mere minute. He never dropped out of the form, but instead advanced to MUI, which lasted even longer. The only version of UI Sign I see that actually lasted a "minute" was Goku's first use of it against Jiren, so time shouldn't be much of an issue especially when Goku's wanting to finish the fight quickly.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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No he didn't. He fought him in the upper atmosphere. Goku was never able to breathe on space
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Lack of range. Devil Doom's BFR is hundreds of universes, nor Goku has shown to be able to use the technique at a tier 2 scale (such as move to other universes with it. The HBTC is not a seperate space time continuum as it's only Earth sized)
DaimaouAshura
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LMFAO my guy
My guy they were so high up and flying around it if this isn't space I don't know what the hell it is anymore. Even if I went by your argument that would be so damn high above everyday walking that breathing would be impossible anyways
Climbing a mountain already messes up with breathing some, upper atmosphere or space would make no difference here on the matter of breathing
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His BFR isn't hundreds of universes, it's only universal+. Not to mention that it's OOC for him to use if he didn't do it on Shadow.
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When has devil doom ever bfr'd someone?
DaimaouAshura
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My whole point, which was the matter of breathing, still stands. Try breathing at the exosphere and see how well that goes lmao
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Never. Not once throughout the entire battle between him and Shadow. Gilad claims that DD didn't BFR Shadow because he's 'aware' that Shadow likely wouldn't be affected by it, but I still don't see a reason for him not doing it to buy himself some time. Especially with the rings depleting every second on Shadow. If anything, that just seems like it's OOC for him to do it.
DaimaouAshura
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Good reminder that I forgot to vote
Reading thread so far I'm voting Goku too
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Then nevermind then, change my vote to Goku fra
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yea it isnt listed on his profile but chaos control BFR is hundreds of universes
that's accepted here
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Ah ok. Other point still stands then.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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He had no reason to use it against Shadow as Shadow knows Chaos Control too. The BFR is nothing more than an application of Chaos Control, but instead of teleporting the user he user teleports the target. If he sees Time Stop wouldn't work, then he'll definitely use it to get rid of Goku
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I already explained why he should still do it regardless, especially given his intelligence hasn't changed upon transformation. And based off of your wording earlier, DD could've still BFR Shadow, but Shadow would've just came back. That just further proves why the BFR in this form is OOC, even if he 'knew' Shadow could return.
DaimaouAshura
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Unless there's statement in the story about not using it because he knew Shadow would come back, for me it just means OOC move.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Shadow already knows Chaos Control. He wouldn't try to BFR Shadow when he knows Shadow can use the same ability to escape from there. After all, Shadow knows Chaos Control because he also have Devil Doom's DNA, so obviously he would know that Shadow knows his technique
And as I said, if he sees Time Stop doesn't work, then he'll resort to that instead of just sitting there
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Oh and I just remembered. Devil Doom has mind hax that he uses pretty much all the times to maintain leadership. What stops him from controlling Goku's mind?
And TK is also very common thing for Devil Doom to use so all he needs to do is hold Goku with TK and he'll be stuck until UI runs out and he loses
And TK is also very common thing for Devil Doom to use so all he needs to do is hold Goku with TK and he'll be stuck until UI runs out and he loses
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He wouldn't immediately resort to that, as he has other attacks in his arsenal to try and fend off Goku. You also still haven't provided a counter-argument as to how DD wouldn't still just try to BFR for verification that it truly had no effect, or to instead buy himself time and waste Shadow's rings. If he was cognitive enough to understand his teleportation would send him a pretty good distance away to drain a bit of Shadow's rings, then he definitely could've tried to BFR him for the sake of wasting the amount of rings Shadow has. The move just seems OOC for him while as Devil Doom, plain and simple.
Plus, Shadow only ever got rings by attacking DD, which would further add to him being smart enough to widen the gap in distance between him and Shadow.
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DD doesn't start with his mind hax, and I'm pretty sure he only has that kind of mental control over those who are biologically linked to him (like Shadow and his soldiers).
He never once used TK against Super Shadow to restrain him. He only used it to levitate those meteoric rocks and hurl debris from the ground at him.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Yeah, such as Pre-Stellar LS TK that will immobilize Goku. He used TK a lot in the boss fight so Goku isn't escaping that.
Shadow needing rings to remain in Super form is game mechanics. Super forms can last weeks without detransforming, as shown in Sonic Advanced. That means that doing this strategy is meaningless and wouldn't work since not only Shadow has unlimited stamina as Super Shadow, and is invulnerable, but also don't need rings to mantain the form, meaning teleporting him away wouldn't work
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I already told you about DD not using TK to restrain his opponent. If he didn't use it on Shadow throughout their entire fight, then he definitely won't use it on Goku.
That hardly sounds like game mechanics if they blatantly state that Shadow can only remain Super by maintaining his amount of rings; but nonetheless, that still doesn't disprove why he wouldn't just try to BFR Shadow in the first place just for verification, or why he would just resort to only widening the distance between himself and Shadow instead of including the BFR in there just to stall. Not to mention that Goku would evolve quick enough to beat DD before he could even attempt to BFR him.
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Gilad_Hyperstar
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Because that wouldn't work. Shadow has unlimited stamina and does not need rings to maintain his form.
As proof, Sonic turned into Super Sonic in the end of Sonic 2 after escaping from the Death Egg Despite it having no rings in the stage. Sonic also turned Super in the Doomsday Zone without any rings, and in Sonic 3
That would mean that he won't delay anything since they'll be literally doing that forever for no reason
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I'm not on the subject of maintaining his rings anymore, I'm talking about BFR now. Stamina also shouldn't play into whether BFR would have an effect on Shadow because all he's doing is sending Shadow somewhere else.
That wouldn't mean anything. If he had known their entire fight would've gone on forever without either making progress, then he definitely wouldn't find any harm in attempting the occasional BFR just to send Shadow away for a bit. Nothing was ever stated, or shown, otherwise that he wouldn't at least try once. So again, the move is OOC for him while he is Devil Doom.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Alright then. Devil Doom also have paralysing gas that will basically shut down Goku's nerves when released. Goku never showed to resist something like that.
And this was the first thing he did when he got all Emeralds. The reason he didn't try to use it on Shadow against is because Shadow resisted that so it'd be useless for him to do it again
And this was the first thing he did when he got all Emeralds. The reason he didn't try to use it on Shadow against is because Shadow resisted that so it'd be useless for him to do it again
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doesn't goku resist paraylsis
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Black Doom never immediately went to using his paralyzing gas after transforming into Devil Doom. He engaged Shadow in combat right after the transformation, plus I think the paralyzing gas came from the Black Comet and not Black Doom himself.
Goku should also already have resistances to paralysis inducement due to having it at the beginning of DBS and after breaking out of Broly's own version of God Bind, so dealing with the gas shouldn't be much of an issue either.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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That's because Shadow already broke out of it. He knows it's useless on Shadow after he saw him breaking free from the paralysis. However, considering he used it when he thought Shadow will also be paralysed, there's no reason he'll not use it on Goku like he did when he first got the emeralds
Goku never broke out of a thing that literally shuts the nerves. God Bind's paralysis is something completely different. This is more akin to paralysis inducments + biological manip as it directly affects Goku's nerves. All God Bind does is to simply hold the target in place, somewhat similarly to how TK restrain the opponent
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Just because Shadow was unaffected by the gas doesn't mean that he would immediately use it as his go to. This same logic could be applied for him not doing the BFR, especially since the gas comes from the Black Comet. Hell, he doesn't even have it listed on his abilities nor in his Standard Equipment, only having the immunity to it.
The gas didn't come from Black Doom, it came from the Comet.
Do you have proof of the gas being able to 'shut nerves'? I don't even see why that's exactly a point you're trying to make. Isn't it affecting the nerves the entire point of it paralyzing, hence why you can't move? And Goku resisted that kind of thing at the beginning of DBS, so why should this paralyzing agent be any different?
GodlyCharmander
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Oozaru Kid Goku did. Against Roshi.
Btw, the back and forth about BFR is nonsense. If DD never used it in a fight, in character, he will not use it, and that's it. No speculating "Well, if he runs out of options", as one cannot prove that.
Mind control, huh... I don't think Goku "not using his mind" is a counter to that, is it? Nor can he get Vegeta's mind control resistance...Hmmm
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It wouldn't matter, since Black Doom, and by extension Devil Doom, can only mind control those who are biologically linked to him.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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That wouldn't save Goku from having his nerves shut down though, which is what the Gas did
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Even though that just sounds like standard paralysis.
GodlyCharmander
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Gas, the character.
Or Gas, the element?
I am not really caught up with the entirety of everyone's arguments.
Why are you arguing about nerves shutting down?
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Gas as a form of matter, like how liquids and solids are forms of matter. Not sure why you even ask given Gas isn't in Sonic
Because that's literally what the gas do. It paralysed everyone by shutting down their nerves
