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>Lonliosite
Why everybody mispells my name?
Why everybody mispells my name?
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Gogeta vs Lightning | GRACE ENDED
- Thread starter Quibster
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here : https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3086663Quibster said:
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But this is stomp it can't be added
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@Akreious: But doesn't Gogeta oneshot her, or come very close, even casually? And isn't he made of two fighting passionate beings? Plus, even if he's not as willing to kill as others, he's still in a mindset where he wants to defeat Lightning.
Not to mention, if he's that opposed to killing that he'd hesitate, isn't he a martial artist capable of "only" knocking someone out?
Not to mention, if he's that opposed to killing that he'd hesitate, isn't he a martial artist capable of "only" knocking someone out?
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@Quibster: If that's the case, that just supports it being a stomp, as opposed to "decisive" (By what criteria?) doesn't it?
As for what I said, it was in response to Akreious saying:
"To be fair, it was like the one single Dragon Ball character that actively spams attacks and is very willing to kill unlike Goku and Vegeta (And therefore Gogeta) who has some morals."
As for what I said, it was in response to Akreious saying:
"To be fair, it was like the one single Dragon Ball character that actively spams attacks and is very willing to kill unlike Goku and Vegeta (And therefore Gogeta) who has some morals."
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Okay, why don't THOSE people think it's a stomp? And from what I'm seeing, it seems like there's reasoning to consider it one.
"Wasn't the Jiren match a stomp? Gogeta is considered much stronger than Jiren "especially on this site" so I don't see lightning winning.
This is beside the point thought. Lightning lost to Jiren, she's not touching Gogeta unless she can prolong the fight for 30 min."
If this isn't a stomp I'm going for Gogeta." (Later changed to a "straight vote" for Gogeta. )
Wouldn't call it a stomp but i just don't see Lightning winning. Unless Gogeta goes Blue, in which case it's a stomp since he is 'likely 2-C'."
I think there's a basis to call it a stomp. So why is this only "decisive"?
And yes, votes have already been made. But voting doesn't save something from a flawed premise; It's why we have stuff like Versus Removal Threads in the first place.
Gogeta smacks as part of a warm-up/shoots a ki blast, & Lightning gets knocked out/dies.
"Wasn't the Jiren match a stomp? Gogeta is considered much stronger than Jiren "especially on this site" so I don't see lightning winning.
- Weaker character's match considered stomp against Lightning.
This is beside the point thought. Lightning lost to Jiren, she's not touching Gogeta unless she can prolong the fight for 30 min."
- Gogeta is massively above opponents Lightning has lost to, & there's little confidence Lightning can prolongedly fight Gogeta, at that.
If this isn't a stomp I'm going for Gogeta." (Later changed to a "straight vote" for Gogeta. )
- Hundreds of times baseline against Lightning. Isn't she near baseline, open to the idea it is a stomp, fight would end extremely quickly.
Wouldn't call it a stomp but i just don't see Lightning winning. Unless Gogeta goes Blue, in which case it's a stomp since he is 'likely 2-C'."
- Opinion that the reasons that Lightning won against Goku wouldn't be anywhere nearly a strong enough strategy to win here, as well as an outdated revision.
I think there's a basis to call it a stomp. So why is this only "decisive"?
And yes, votes have already been made. But voting doesn't save something from a flawed premise; It's why we have stuff like Versus Removal Threads in the first place.
Gogeta smacks as part of a warm-up/shoots a ki blast, & Lightning gets knocked out/dies.
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Well, I'm not here to argue Lightning wins this matchup, if that eases your conscience any.
(Also, it's not a big deal because it's easily fixable, but the Tournament of Power may be an unfair location if its out of bounds & no flying rules are in effect, presuming Gogeta would know of the rules but Lightning wouldn't.)
(Also, it's not a big deal because it's easily fixable, but the Tournament of Power may be an unfair location if its out of bounds & no flying rules are in effect, presuming Gogeta would know of the rules but Lightning wouldn't.)
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Lightning can use her soul manip to kill Gogeta, but that won't happen because Gogeta one-shots her. Decisive match.
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So her win condition is an unlikely means of winning (And presumably, not one that's IC, seeing as how it hasn't been brought up in debate?) while her opponent one-shots her with any opening move?
Heck, how does said Soul Manipulation work, & is it even combat applicable, as opposed to say, purifying the soul, or moving dead beings to another afterlife or something?
Heck, how does said Soul Manipulation work, & is it even combat applicable, as opposed to say, purifying the soul, or moving dead beings to another afterlife or something?
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Not sure, in Jiren vs. Lighning ws used as an argument, so I think it is combat applicable.
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I don't mind hearing what do the others think that doesn't turn this into a stomp.
Which begs the main question, what chance does Lightning stand in the first place?
Which begs the main question, what chance does Lightning stand in the first place?
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@LSirLancelotDuLacl: Well, as I pointed out above, she's above baseline against someone who's above hundreds of times baseline, & who resists Time Stop, & who previous threads have concluded she'd lose to a weaker version of.
Right now, I'm looking into how her Soul Manipulation & Time Stop work.
Right now, I'm looking into how her Soul Manipulation & Time Stop work.
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Let me see if I can bring this up to the FF people so they can give their thoughts.
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Thanks. While you're at it, I've been looking into things:
"Pretty sure Lightnings soul hax comes from her saving people's souls upon death for the new world. Which is basically non combat applicable"
"Haven't played Lightning Returns in a while, but isn't Light's soul hax just something to do with her role as the savior and is something she can pull off once she, for the lack of better terms, accomplishes someone's major goal, or helps them out in some way? The only time I recall her using it "offensively" and immediately is here, then again my memory's pretty hazy."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Qy_jTK74M At about 1:43, she immediately goes up to what seems to be a no name guard of no importance she dislikes, & Soul Manips him to death on contact.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Orion%27sBow/Final_Fantasy_XIII_Changes_I:_Time_Manipulation.
I don't know if the propositions by that blog were accepted, but....
"If you've played Lightning Returns, you know that she takes all the souls in existence to slam straight through Bhunivelze and kill him in the end, after he regenerated from everything else she'd thrown at him.
Lightning can literally pull every soul she wants to, from anywhere in an entire multiverse (Probably greater range, because of the unique structure of the verse),and form it into her very own cosmic BFS."
Also, I can't remember where, but wasn't there something about her Time Manipulation working on Bhunivelse or something?
I mean, it sounds like it'd be pretty hard to resist anyway, since it already works when time is gone, apparently, so I dunno if it's something in Gogeta's league of resistance. Abilities usually don't scale with statistics, & his is based on resisting Hit's limited range, very brief timeframe, one-person timestop.
"Pretty sure Lightnings soul hax comes from her saving people's souls upon death for the new world. Which is basically non combat applicable"
"Haven't played Lightning Returns in a while, but isn't Light's soul hax just something to do with her role as the savior and is something she can pull off once she, for the lack of better terms, accomplishes someone's major goal, or helps them out in some way? The only time I recall her using it "offensively" and immediately is here, then again my memory's pretty hazy."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Qy_jTK74M At about 1:43, she immediately goes up to what seems to be a no name guard of no importance she dislikes, & Soul Manips him to death on contact.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Orion%27sBow/Final_Fantasy_XIII_Changes_I:_Time_Manipulation.
I don't know if the propositions by that blog were accepted, but....
- The description for Overclock contradicts gameplay, & states: "Press L2 in battle to slow the world's time to a crawl, allowing only Lightning to move normally." I'm not sure if her range acknowledges this, & our profile says for it:
- Overclock: Dramatically slows time instantly, allowing her to act at far higher speeds for a short time.
- The blog claims: "The additional kicker is that her power works when time doesn't exist anymore. As proven by the fact that she uses it on the day when the world ends, and time ceases to be."
- It also includes this image:
- "Caius himself has way stronger time manipulation in that he can stop/ travel through while in in the timeless land of Valhalla/the Unseen World."
"If you've played Lightning Returns, you know that she takes all the souls in existence to slam straight through Bhunivelze and kill him in the end, after he regenerated from everything else she'd thrown at him.
Lightning can literally pull every soul she wants to, from anywhere in an entire multiverse (Probably greater range, because of the unique structure of the verse),and form it into her very own cosmic BFS."
Also, I can't remember where, but wasn't there something about her Time Manipulation working on Bhunivelse or something?
I mean, it sounds like it'd be pretty hard to resist anyway, since it already works when time is gone, apparently, so I dunno if it's something in Gogeta's league of resistance. Abilities usually don't scale with statistics, & his is based on resisting Hit's limited range, very brief timeframe, one-person timestop.
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Oh shit lightning applied time to a realm where time does not exist that's wayyy above Hit ever did and yeah GG lightning kills via soul hax I vote for her
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Eh, I'll wait to see if any of the FF people can come and give their input.
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Iirc, there was a CRT about that and it was rejected that it was a timeless place.
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@AshenCrow777: Well, supposedly, from what I've read, her lethal Soul Manipulation needs contact to kill, & isn't Gogeta's AP in oneshot range? Does Gogeta lead with Ki Attacks?
Does she lead with Time Stop/Time Slow, & she can avoid his Ki Attacks?
Would she be able to Soul Manip to remove Gogeta's Soul before he can hit her? In the cutscene, we see her bring the guard to the floor such that he's laying face-up before she Soul Manips.
Does she have other instances of using Soul Manipulation lethally?
Does she lead with Time Stop/Time Slow, & she can avoid his Ki Attacks?
Would she be able to Soul Manip to remove Gogeta's Soul before he can hit her? In the cutscene, we see her bring the guard to the floor such that he's laying face-up before she Soul Manips.
Does she have other instances of using Soul Manipulation lethally?
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For soul manip she dosent always to be in contact as shown in the final battle when she literally use the soul of several people across universe's and timeline and other stuff to kill God.Imaginym said:
She always lead with Time stop and then time slow she goes for hax abilities when a fight start as shown in FF13 lightning returns when monsters attacked her and she went straight for time stop.
I mean she as a form of precognition and super senses and other things so it depends who hits who.
Final boss and other creatures she had intended to do it to Caius but he resist that.
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@AshenCrow777: Were any of those beings unwilling to have their soul removed? Isn't part of Lightning's character becoming everyone's saviour?
She has Precognition & Enhanced Senses? Those aren't on her profile. If they should be, that needs a Content Revision Thread to propose & implement it.
(And while whoever makes such a thread does so, I think her powers & abilities & justifications should be improved so people don't have to dig for info on the potency of her abilities & feats like I did.)
What was the basis of Caius's Soul Manipulation resistance, if I may ask?
She has Precognition & Enhanced Senses? Those aren't on her profile. If they should be, that needs a Content Revision Thread to propose & implement it.
(And while whoever makes such a thread does so, I think her powers & abilities & justifications should be improved so people don't have to dig for info on the potency of her abilities & feats like I did.)
What was the basis of Caius's Soul Manipulation resistance, if I may ask?
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She doesn't always start with Time Manipulation shown with the opening cutscene when she's surrounded by several monsters and Snow and opts to Swordfight and blitz them instead while Snow is doing his own thing and then they start fighting.
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1.yeah there was an entire cult dedicated into killing her real fanatics going around killing people that looked even remotely like lightning they got soul manip by her.
2.yeah she's missing some abilities I should do a CRT but anyways that happened in FF13-2 first when she basically when and where Noel was going to appear in Etros world at the presice time but I think it was mostly Clairvoyance Lightning sees various moments in time that include an era facing destruction, seeress Yeul's various deaths, Serah trapped in an endless dream, and her own losing battle with Yeul's Guardian Caius. The ability is called eyes of etro.
I can trace the timeline. I see the future, and lead others along the correct path. Yeul
The 'Eyes of Etro' is another name given to Yeul's power to see changes in the timeline. Not restricted to the past or future, Yeul can witness any period in history. This ability is associated with the power of chaos, and is thus seen as a blessing of the goddess. The fact that Serah shares this ability is a sign that she has come under the gaze of Etro at some point in the past.
Lightning was granted those when she was made a warrior of Etro.
Caius is kind of weird because lightning and him were fighting in a eternal time loop doctor Strange style more than once but even after using every single ability she know of Caius would never die until is true killer came and that was Noel.
2.yeah she's missing some abilities I should do a CRT but anyways that happened in FF13-2 first when she basically when and where Noel was going to appear in Etros world at the presice time but I think it was mostly Clairvoyance Lightning sees various moments in time that include an era facing destruction, seeress Yeul's various deaths, Serah trapped in an endless dream, and her own losing battle with Yeul's Guardian Caius. The ability is called eyes of etro.
I can trace the timeline. I see the future, and lead others along the correct path. Yeul
The 'Eyes of Etro' is another name given to Yeul's power to see changes in the timeline. Not restricted to the past or future, Yeul can witness any period in history. This ability is associated with the power of chaos, and is thus seen as a blessing of the goddess. The fact that Serah shares this ability is a sign that she has come under the gaze of Etro at some point in the past.
Lightning was granted those when she was made a warrior of Etro.
Caius is kind of weird because lightning and him were fighting in a eternal time loop doctor Strange style more than once but even after using every single ability she know of Caius would never die until is true killer came and that was Noel.
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Actually she does use it go to 2:50 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Qy_jTK74M the monsters attacked so she decided to deflect and dodged there attacks once she is surrounded she then decides to use it and take them all out at the same time she was just fighting smart.Hst master said:
Even Serah got those eyes but seeing infinite timelines and different outcomes and the past present plus future at the same time killed her....
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She blitzed them, she even did the same to Snow. At 3:25.
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And there's also her right with Noel where she doesn't bother with Time Manip. opting to brute force it.
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So 50/50 I guess but her etro eyes abilities are really good
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First, the whole 'time stopped in a timeless space' was rejected (remember that going by that standard Hit did exactly the same thing in the TOP ? yeah, neither are considered as 'truly timeless' on this site) just like the 'infinite speed' and 'time stopped an infinite speed being', all of those were rejected so Lightning's time stop is totaly within range of Gogeta's resistance, would it be total or partial resistance is another question (i'd say totale but it's arguable)
Second, the only reason Lightning could soul manip all those people from so far away was because of everything you did previously in the game, the game make the link between your mission / what you do during the game and the souls of the people involved clear, that's even your whole goal, that's basicaly prep time and outside help she wouldn't have access to (and she turn said souls into an AP attack anyway and i doubt it would be enough to close the AP gap here).
Also Gogeta lead with Danmaku and AOE attack if they don't start within punching distance of each other (and even then Gogeta has a hight chance to go for his explosion attack)
Second, the only reason Lightning could soul manip all those people from so far away was because of everything you did previously in the game, the game make the link between your mission / what you do during the game and the souls of the people involved clear, that's even your whole goal, that's basicaly prep time and outside help she wouldn't have access to (and she turn said souls into an AP attack anyway and i doubt it would be enough to close the AP gap here).
Also Gogeta lead with Danmaku and AOE attack if they don't start within punching distance of each other (and even then Gogeta has a hight chance to go for his explosion attack)
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