Godzilla: Heisei II kaijuu AP and dura

[Graf_Thorsdottir]

I'll try to revise the best era of Godzilla films that followed Gojira and Shin (fite me)

Currently, we put Heisei II kaijuu as Planet level for 2 reasons: Battra being stated by the shobijin as capable of destroying an Earth-threatening asteroid, and SpaceGodzilla also stated by the shobijin as capable of destroying Earth, both in the movie, and in the manga adaptation. Heisei II Godzilla and any other kaijuu scaling from him scale from them. Let's take a look at each reason

Battra
Battra was stated by the shobijin that he holds the power to destroy an approaching asteroid, capable of "destroying" Earth. This blog has the calculations of 2 scenarios: the asteroid creating a mass-extinction (32.78 teratons - Country level), or outright destroying Earth via overcoming its GBE (267.09 zettatons - Planet level). My issue is: Why do we pick the 2nd scenario? The destruction this asteroid would create is only hypothetical. Destroy Earth is a phrase we hear all the time if we spend time on this wiki. Boros said it, but we rate him at surface wiping. It being an asteroid doesn't mean it has to destroy Earth in 1 single hit. Look at the Chicxulub Impact Event. It was only calculated at 100 teratons, but the chain reaction that followed led to the K-T extinction event. And if you want to say picking the planet-busting end aligns with the SpaceGodzilla statement, I'll take it to the second point.

SpaceGodzilla
Here is SpaceGodzilla's current explanations:

Superior to Battra, as he defeated Godzilla fairly easily in their first encounter and would later only be defeated by the combined efforts of Godzilla and M.O.G.U.E.R.A., Stated by the Cosmos twins to have destroyed planets in his journey to Earth in the manga adaptation of the film.

Nothing wrong with scaling him from Battra and Godzilla, as the movie made clear how easily he defeated Godzilla early on. The problem is with the manga explanation. It violates our rule of accepting adaptation, not helped by the fact that the manga has some pretty clear differences from the movie (such as having a different protagonist, and Mechagodzilla being rebuilt only to get one-shotted by MOGUERA, despite it being a plot point in the movie that MOGUERA is a budget version of Mechagodzilla). Furthermore, being stated to have destroyed planets after planets is nearly the same deal as Showa King Ghidorah, yet we don't even allow him to be a surface wiper, let alone a planet-buster.

Conclusion
In short, we accept statements for Battra and SpaceGodzilla at face value, not accounting the context for the former, and the timeframe for the latter.

So what to do?

I dug through blogs made by Gallavant and J-Man, and found some calculations that would place them at tier 7 to 6.

• This blog by Gallavant of Larval Battra's beam: 1.599 petatons - Continent level
• This blog by J-Man of Godzilla and Battra clashing and damaging a tectonic plate: 420.65 megatons - Mountain level to 4.205 teratons - Small Country level+
• J-Man's blog about the asteroid: 32.78 teratons - Country level for mass extinction, 267.09 zettatons - Planet level for literal planetbusting
• KE for MOGUERA and SpaceGodzilla: 1.14 petatons - Continent level for MOGUERA. SpaceGodzilla was calculated as 569.07 teratons - Large Country level+, but that calc used SpaceGodzilla's combat form (80,000 t) while the flying form of 720,000 t would result in Multi-Continent level result
• Birth Island Destruction: 603.03 megatons - Mountain level. Junior and anyone stronger (Aggregate Destoroyah) scale
• This calc that goes way back in Vs. Biollante: Godzilla I and anyone stronger is anywhere from Island level (35.49 gigatons) to Continent level (2.159 petatons)

We need to discuss which calc is the most accurate and apply it to the profiles

 

[Graf_Thorsdottir]

bump

 

[Gallavant]

Heres the dealio

There are two translations to the Battra feat

Blu ray re-release: Wipe out all life on Earth

Madman: Destroy Earth

The madman translation is regarded as being more accurate

Heres the big reasons why we don't use the low end:

-An event similar to the biblical flood took place in the Heisei timeline.

(Multi Continent Level)

-The pre-flood civilization gathered enough of the Earth life force to cause such event.

-The Earth always regarded by the Cosmos as a living being when it is mentioned

Lastly, it doesn't matter whether the event was a chain reaction or not, simply because:

- "Earth" survived it

'This meteor' was going to kill the Earth.

While the pre-flood civilization was unable to do this

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump.

As for some questions

• Why is the madman translation considered superior?

• A meteor impact is not only far quicker than a flood it's significantly more damaging

• The manga being non-canon seems legitimate considering the multiple stark differences with the source material

 

[Qawsedf234]

> The Earth always regarded by the Cosmos as a living being when it is mentioned

While true, I only think they're talking about the surface of the Earth. As the Cosmos outright said a climate controlling machine put the Earth in danger which makes no sense if it was about the entire planet. Also the Cosmos agreed with a statement about modern people endangering the Earth which also doesn't make sense if it isn't just about the surface.

So I think the meteor would just render the surface of the Earth permeantly devoid of life or something.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump again.

Also what are the suggested tiers? High 7A/6C for pre-upgrade Godzilla and either 6B, High 6B, or 6A for post-upgrade?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Or are we using the High 6A recalc for Burning Godzilla and Destroyah's AP/Durability?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

iirc the twins stated in the original translation that Humanity would know if Mothra succeeded in stopping the meteor if the planet was still there in a year

Also the Biolante feat was recalced to the current version currently in use on the profiles

 

[Qawsedf234]

Here's a link to the movie. Based on the subs it's the preferred version and the twins don't mention that part when talking about the meteor (happens around 1:36:00). The most that happens is them asking to remember Mothra when the year 2000 rolls around and the people there saying it's now up to them to save the Earth.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wait, @Gallavant according to your translation there was never a world flood. Right before that quote it was stated that the floods were localized to their island (line beings at 1:04). So there's no other supporting evidence for the planet busting end

 

[Kiryu-MG3]

Well, it highly depends on which dub is considered OFFICIAL. But in the case no one is, then we can try look for the movie in Japanese with english subtitles. I'll look for what can I find about this.

Also I'm already send messages to some calculator group members in order to analize this calc:

• This calc that goes way back in Vs. Biollante: Godzilla I and anyone stronger is anywhere from Island level (35.49 gigatons) to Continent level (2.159 petatons)

I have this forgotten calc that back ups Moon level for SpaceGodzilla and Godzilla (Heisei II)

Is not so far from this other one:

• KE for MOGUERA and SpaceGodzilla: 1.14 petatons - Continent level for MOGUERA. SpaceGodzilla was calculated as 569.07 teratons - Large Country level+, but that calc used SpaceGodzilla's combat form (80,000 t) while the flying form of 720,000 t would result in Multi-Continent level result

 

[Qawsedf234]

> But in the case no one is, then we can try look for the movie in Japanese with english subtitles. I'll look for what can I find about this.

Here's a site with it in Japanese with subs. Which is where I got the streamable from.

 

[Kiryu-MG3]

That is fine however I recommend to check another one, in order to be sure the subtitles coincide in most points. Words in japanese can be changed a bit in translations.

Proof of it is the word "Hoshi" that means both planet/star.

I'm currently looking for more info.

 

[Qawsedf234]

An alternate translation I found is the following

But when the climate controller was destroyed by Battra

There was massive flooding on the Earth, and most of out land sunk underwater

Mothra survived in the mountain with a few Earth Cosmos

The same translation also states the meteor will "Destroy all life on Earth"

But presumably this is the one Gallavant mentioned as being the inferior one. Dunno enough Japanese to really know

 

[Kiryu-MG3]

If you can look for other movie in Japanese I could try translate it.

But I'll need you to give me the link and time marks where the dialogue needs to be translated.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In the previously linked video the relevant flood dialogue would be between "0:23:06" and "0:23:21".

 

[Kiryu-MG3]

I will take a look on it. Please wait.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Or if you don't wanna use that site then this video from 1:05 to 1:22

 

[Kiryu-MG3]

I need both points of what Cosmos stated. The Earth creating Battra and the 1999 meteor claim.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In the streamable the Battra part is at 0:38 to 1:01. For the meteor it occurs in the previously linked site around 1:36:00, when the group of humans are standing before Mothra in a airport

 

[Qawsedf234]

Checking again the timestamps are 1:36:03 to 1:36:10

 

[Kiryu-MG3]

Done. Is in a blog here.

As I'm a bit sick I'll be not able to answer soon. But it was accepted already.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Thanks for the translations! I do have to ask though, which is the correct version of the flood statement? It being planet wide or did they only mention it flooding on the island?

 

[DMB_1]

Wow, the Heisei Era has consistently High-End Tier 6 feats.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah. Which is why the meteor and flood stuff is important. Since they would also back tier 6 Heisei monsters.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Bump

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

The translation of @Kiryu-MG3 is clear enough, the Meteorite was going to totally destroy the planet Earth, that is Tier 5.

 

[Gallavant]

The confirmation that the meteor would "destroy the Earth" in itself merits 5-B. This is from the ********* translation, or Madman, as I have said previously.

Critical to further understanding of the feat is the existance of Battra. He wasnt simply conjured out of the woods. iirc in all translations, the Earth itself, as a living entity, gave birth to the monster. The personification of the Earth, thinking for itself, is the context here. Use of the Earths energy suggests damage far exceeding external life wiping, as the energy needed to generate such a global flood is Continent Level.

To address another point:

The subtitles say Battra was defeated in the Northern Ice Regio. Infant Island does not appear to have an ice regio. It belongs to an area of Indonesia. This island is right at the equator. If you haven't seen the movie, the group of people that come to explore the island travel through all sorts of tropical scenery.

The island was merely mentioned as being covered in floods. This heavily disproves the claim, within what was the notion of a Planet threatening calamity, that the island encompasses the entirety of the conversation. The island being "covered" all the more likely suggests that Mothra and co had to land somewhere else, with the context of the mountainous regions of the upper Northern Hemisphere, such as the Himalayan Mountains more appropriately in question.

 

[Qawsedf234]

the of the Earths energy suggests damage far exceeding external life wiping, as the energy needed to generate such a global flood is Continent Level.

Floods in that list ranges from 6-B to High 6-A (and a single high end of Low 5-B). There's also no time frame given in the Godzilla movie and we have no idea how heavily it flooded. Its a vague metric to use.

All we know is that Battra was sealed in Siberia and that Mothra/the cosmos retreated to some mountains to avoid a flood that effected Infant Island to some capacity.

The island was merely mentioned as being covered in floods. This heavily disproves the claim that the island encompasses the entirety of the conversation. The island being "covered" all the more likely suggests that Mothra and co had to land somewhere else, with the context of the mountainous regions of the upper Northern Hemisphere, such as the Himalayan Mountains more appropriately in question

The Cosmos said that they climbed "our highest mountains". Nothing suggests it was the Himalayas anymore than a local one near the island. The Cosmos aren't exactly the tallest of species anyways.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

What about @Kiryu-MG3 translation? it seems clear enough.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That's why I asked about the flood. If it's world wide then there's not a whole lot to argue against 5-B besides "It seems like a very large outlier"

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I'm talking about the meteorite dude. Is Tier 5 (According @Kiryu Translation), that is enough proof to validate it.

Also this calc puts SpaceGodzilla and any moster who scales from him at Tier 5. Gallavant calc

 

[Gallavant]

Mothra Island has never been a "tiny" island, its mountains has always dwarfed Mothra several times. The flood was enough to cover the island which is likely several km accross.

 

[Qawsedf234]

5-C is still notably worse than 5-B, but I won't argue against it. I do however, think the profiles should be updated to reflect the changes. Like linking the 5-B statement for SpaceGodzilla rather than the manga and adding that calc to his durability justification.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Mothra Island has never been a "tiny" island, its mountains has always dwarfed Mothra several times. The flood was enough to cover the island which is likely several km accross.

I never called the island tiny though. I just said the Cosmos were pretty small. Also a flood of that level wouldn't be close to Tier 6 but thats besides the point now.