Goddess Madoka and Devil Homura Striking Strength + Durability

[RadianceQ]

Madoka's profile doesn't really give reasoning where the durability and striking strength stats for her goddess form comes from.

Likewise Homura's profile doesn't explain where the durability stat for her Devil form comes from.


Just think someone that knows where the stats come from should insert a reasoning there.

...That's all I wanted to say.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Uh pretty sure said stats are scaled from there AP

 

[RadianceQ]

Uh pretty sure said stats are scaled from there AP

You mean each form their own or due to some reason from each others?

I hope not the prior, as in the recent debate about doing that for to arus magic gods that wasn't accepted judging from the threads outcome (out of good reason IMO, I might add).

 

[Jesterofgames]

I mean There striking stenght and Durability are scaled from there attack potency

 

[Akumura]

It could be because Madoka literally fires arrows to destroy and recreate a multiverse?

Not too sure, though.

Durability is from being conceptual and being unaffected by anything less, afaik.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, it wasn't accepted for the Magic Gods because you said that they were Haruhi-esque characters who reach this level of power only with with reality warping (Everyone else was agreeing with it before). This isn't the same case as Madoka and Homura, who are 4D beings. Also characters are assumed to be able to take hits comparable to those that they can dish out unless the opposite is shown.

 

[RadianceQ]

@Kalitas: I didn't say that at all... I said that I don't think scaling AP to dura rule exists or should exist.

The Durability page for example states

"Logically, characters capable of physically achieving a certain degree of energy output, must be able to at least withstand a comparable amount of damage, or their bodies would break apart from the strain and automatic counterforce, whenever they exert themselves."

It clearly specifies that it only is assumed for physically being that powerful and the reasoning that I found in this thread regarding scaling Durability to Striking Strength also really focuses in its arguments on it being physical attacks.


And in regards to being 4-D: I agree that they would have durability of universe level+ if they are 4-D. That said than you have to give reasoning showing that they are 4-D beings in the first place.

As I wrote in the to aru thread.

"For higher dimensional characters that is more or less true, but what we would have here is the also quite common case of a character that only displays power great enough to manipulate higher dimensions, but isn't actually higher dimensional itself. Such characters can have any sort of durability or striking strength, in my opinion. There is pretty much no reason why Haruhi-ish characters couldn't exist for tier 1 after all."

I mean I haven't seen anything indicating that Madoka has a 4 dimensional body. Have you? If so you should add it to her page as reasoning for her durability (albeit wouldn't that strictly speaking only be universe level+? 'Cause timelines are 4-D and stuff...).


All in all durability is just not a throw away stat that you can just give characters without any proof IMO, even at tier 2.

One shouldn't need to disprove a character that has tier 2 stats to have comparable durability, just as one wouldn't have to disprove a character to have tier 2 AP.

If there is a lower value that can reasonably be the case, then an argument has to be made that it can not actually be that low.

 

[Kaltias]

Madoka exists as a concept throughout the entire PMMM multiverse, at any point of space-time, with her conceptual self/true body existing detached from it. Destroying her without destroying the multiverse wouldn't work, and to do so, you would need a comparable power to her own. Homura should be comparable. There is also some stuff in the latest Tamura volume about Madoka existing outside of space-time, but I haven't read it yet.

Also Madoka's base can punch as hard as the damage of her arrows, so that's another reason to scale it to the physical stats

 

[RadianceQ]

I agree that in order to kill her you would most likely need multiversal power due to her existing as a concept throughout the multiverse.

I disagree with that being durability of her manifestated body.

How should I say... it is the difference between surviving an attack because of durability and because of Regenerationn.

Star Sapphire for example has Type 8 depending on the stars, meaning that killing her without destroying the galaxy wouldn't work. Her durability isn't that high, though.

This would be similar IMO.


That said, her concept spanning the multiverse isn't that bad reasoning for her durability, given that is comes out as the same. If you would insert an explanation stating that she has this durability because her concept is so large, everything is fine with me.

Most important is that we agree that there should be reasoning for the durability stat of tier 2 characters.

 

[Kaltias]

Ah, that's what you meant. The M-bodies aren't 2-A individually, they are 3D (Regular magical girls can interact with them). 2-A is just for the actual conceptual Madoka.

 

[RadianceQ]

Sooo... should reasoning be added to her durability stat?

It also leaves the question of reasoning for her striking strength stat (concepts aren't known to punch a lot...)

 

[Kaltias]

Sure, I can edit it later.

True, but when you think about it, both her magical girl and witch form have striking strength equal to the AP, so it would make sense for her 2-A form to have a similar striking strength

 

[RadianceQ]

I don't think I agree with that reasoning. It sounds a bit like an appeal to tradition (with the tradition being that characters in the series have striking strength equal to AP).

There is also the important difference that IIRC her magical girl and witch forms have mainly physical bodies, while her goddess form is non-corporeal.

 

[Kaltias]

Not the characters in the series in general, Madoka herself. The magical girl form has 5-C striking strength, Ult. Kriemhild has 5-B striking strength. Why her new unfathomably more powerful should be different? It's basically just her magical girl form but extremely boosted because she has entire timelines on her shoulders

Non-corporeal characters can throw punches just as normal characters do.