God of War: Ragnarok Discussion Thread

[KLOL506]

It's really not, Characters get abstract existence for far less evidence.

Two wrongs don't make a right. They should prolly be revised if that is the case.

And like i said, the sky is the literal brains of ymir.

In the case of Ymir, it isn't something abstract in nature tho, like thoughts, concepts or information. That's the main kicker here. Ymir's skull was used to physically forge the sky, not just bring about concepts or abstractions of the term "sky".

Also, you don't need to predate really for abstract existence type 2.

Not the point. Point is, you need to embody something abstract to even have AE in the first place.

Hell, you don't even need CM Type 1 Concepts to achieve AE Type 1, if you are literally the abstraction in question, which the Greek Primordials actually are. They aren't just the physical representations of the aspects of reality, they are also the abstract concepts of said physical representations.

Like, you could blow up the Greek Flat Mortal Plain and it would still mean nothing for Gaia because her true form is free from all that bullshit, existing in its true form as an abstract Primordial spirit.

 

[Gasper]

Two wrongs don't make a right. They should prolly be revised if that is the case.


It isn't something abstract in nature tho, like thoughts, concepts or information. That's the main kicker here. Ymir's skull was used to physically forge the sky, not just bring about concepts or abstractions of the term "sky"

Utangard is literally his dream.... which are thoughts.

Also, on your other point about the whole world being destroyed but gaia would still be alive, what contradicts the same for ymir? Odin just killed him directly in the same way primordials killed other primordials.

 

[KLOL506]

Utangard is literally his dream.... which are thoughts.

Which came AFTER he died. And it's literally a brand new dream realm where you get to physically enter and see the actual prophecies and what-have-you. This isn't remotely the same as say, Thanatos being the literal concept of death (The concept isn't the relevant part, it's the abstractness of the concept that matters), Uranus being the literal concept of the universe, Morpheus being literally Dreams itself, or Nyx being the concept of Night itself.

We have an even better example that trumps all of this. Fear Zeus.

Also, on your other point about the whole world being destroyed but gaia would still be alive, what contradicts the same for ymir?

Because we are explicitly told in the GoW2 novel that Gaia met Kratos in this form (Disguising it with something more relatable to be able to converse with him), Ymir is straight up gone. Dead. Deceased. Kicked the bucket.

Gaia didn't perish. Only her physical body died. Hell, even in the novel we are told that her true form is still alive after she only shed her physical body to throw off any would-be pursuers, like the Sisters of Fate, and to abide with the laws of time that the Mortals so cherished.

Odin just killed him directly in the same way primordials killed other primordials.

That doesn't prove anything about them having CM Type 1 or AE Type 1 here.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, in case one forgets, merely being an embodiment isn't enough, you need proof showing that you can empower yourself with the object you're embodying AKA be granted control over the abstraction, or come back endlessly via resurrection because of it.

Poseidon grows significantly more powerful the more water he absorbs, and Hades becomes significantly stronger the more you dump souls of the dead into the Underworld. Poseidon dying threw the world's water bodies out of whack and drowned the entire mortal plain, Hades' death caused the Underworld to be thrown into complete chaos with all the imprisoned souls being freed but wandering aimlessly for all eternity. Helios embodies the Sun and its powers, and upon his death, the Sun is blocked out by clouds of endless rain, until Kratos kills Zeus and the Sun is once again seein the far background.

Hell, the Greek Gods are stated to have weapons that surpass mortal creations, but they rely on other things to maintain their dominance, like their powers that influence nature which they gain by embodying the domains they rule over.

The Great Evils and Hope retain both this, and they grant Immortality Types 4 and 8 on top.

Nothing that you mentioned regarding Surtr or Ymir do any of the above, neither immortality, nor control over said abstraction or harnessing said abstraction's powers to grow stronger.

 

[Gasper]

Shouldn't then greek gods get immortality type 8?

 

[KLOL506]

Shouldn't then greek gods get immortality type 8?

No? Most of them only fulfill the "control over the abstraction" condition. Great Evils and Hope are exceptions.

 

[Gasper]

Would Odin hanging himself on yggdrasil give him anything?
Like resurrection or regeneration from a neck snap? He even perces himself with a spear.

 

[KLOL506]

Would Odin hanging himself on yggdrasil give him anything?
Like resurrection or regeneration from a neck snap? He even perces himself with a spear.

No. He died from that.

The Tree got fed up of his ass after he plundered it for knowledge too much and spat him out into the land of the living.

 

[Gasper]

No. He died from that.

The Tree got fed up of his ass after he plundered it for knowledge too much and spat him out into the land of the living.

So, did he actually die? If so, what about yggdrasil getting resurrection.

 

[KLOL506]

So, did he actually die? If so, what about yggdrasil getting resurrection.

That's what was decided a while back, didn't get to it yet.

 

[Gasper]

That's what was decided a while back, didn't get to it yet.

Another thing, mimir stated odin was barking like a rabid god, is this madness manip?

 

[Diamentus]

No. He died from that.

The Tree got fed up of his ass after he plundered it for knowledge too much and spat him out into the land of the living.

Does that mean Yggdrasil is sentient?

 

[Planck69]

Another thing, mimir stated odin was barking like a rabid god, is this madness manip?

Eh, you can entirely go cuckoo on your own. We'd need confirmation that it was inflicted supernaturally/mentally/biologically

 

[KLOL506]

Another thing, mimir stated odin was barking like a rabid god, is this madness manip?

LMAO

It's just Mimir referencing just how insane Odin actually is because of how power-hungry and knowledge-hungry he is. Nothing to do with Madness Manip.

 

[KLOL506]

Does that mean Yggdrasil is sentient?

Yes? Ratatoskr literally stated so in Ragnarok, plus he also stated that the tree has quite a bitter sense of humor.

 

[Gasper]

LMAO

It's just Mimir referencing just how insane Odin actually is because of how power-hungry and knowledge-hungry he is. Nothing to do with Madness Manip.

When does odin go insano-style in GoW Ragnarök? He clearly isn't in his right mind there.

 

[Diamentus]

Also by the way, does anyone know how Kratos managed to fall into the Underworld in GOW 3?

 

[KLOL506]

When does odin go insano-style in GoW Ragnarök? He clearly isn't in his right mind there.

He never was.

 

[KLOL506]

Also by the way, does anyone know how Kratos managed to fall into the Underworld in GOW 3?

He just fell through one of the cracks in the Mortal Plain that serve as tears in the fabric of reality straight to the Underworld.

 

[Georredannea15]

When does odin go insano-style in GoW Ragnarök? He clearly isn't in his right mind there.

He hung himself dead in the branches of Yggdrasil, because he wanted to learn all the knowledge and powers within the Urd well and Yggdrasil, but he never went mad or anything like that.

 

[Gasper]

He never was.

Exactly. So it wasn't just odin being insane because of his personality or anything like that.

 

[Gasper]

He hung himself dead in the branches of Yggdrasil, because he wanted to learn all the knowledge and powers within the Urd well and Yggdrasil, but he never went mad or anything like that.

But... he does though? Mimir says he was barking mad (probably after being spat out).

 

[KLOL506]

But... he does though? Mimir says he was barking mad (probably after being spat out).

He said that in response to Odin hanging himself and spearing himself in the first place to gain knowledge.

 

[KLOL506]

Exactly. So it wasn't just odin being insane because of his personality or anything like that.

No, it definitely is because of his personality.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah Odin was just always Insane, his mental state is why he even hung himself on the tree on the first place because no sane person would ever think to themselves "hmmm if I stabbed myself and then hung from Yggdrasil that means I can get more knowledge and power"

 

[Georredannea15]

But... he does though? Mimir says he was barking mad (probably after being spat out).

No, what Mimir said was that he was someone who would do anything crazy for knowladge and information.

 

[chosen]

Top 5 non boss encounters that annoyed You the most?

 

[Diamentus]

Top 5 non boss encounters that annoyed You the most?

The one where you fight the enemies and it's hard

 

[chosen]

Hmm not trying to downgrade anything but how we treat narrator stataments?
Cuz got my hands on gow 1 novel and i see the narrator saying it was Just a schizo attack at the end of the chapter

 

[KLOL506]

Hmm not trying to downgrade anything but how we treat narrator stataments?
Cuz got my hands on gow 1 novel and i see the narrator saying it was Just a schizo attack at the end of the chapter

There's one problem.

Kratos's head had a mysterious gash, his skin was split from Ares trying to give him a mental breakdown.

Remember, Ares could easily influence Kratos via various methods, like the fire behind him in the Temple who effectively ratted out that he was the one who put his wife and child there.

 

[chosen]

There's one problem.

Kratos's head had a mysterious gash, his skin was split from Ares trying to give him a mental breakdown.

Remember, Ares could easily influence Kratos via various methods, like the fire behind him in the Temple who effectively ratted out that he was the one who put his wife and child there.

Hmmm
Also for bottom part i see kratos bekng tricked into thinking was mainly talking about what narrator said

 

[KLOL506]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/god-of-war-another-minor-ap-upgrade-some-acausality-justification-fixes.158858/

 

[KLOL506]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/god-of-war-yggdrasil-upgrade-finalized.158851/

WALLAHI I'M FINISHED

 

[chosen]

Since seems like it gets trough who from greek era will be upgraded again

 

[Diamentus]

Since seems like it gets trough who from greek era will be upgraded again

Reasonably, every god, titan, and primordial. And.. Deimos.

 

[Planck69]

Since seems like it gets trough who from greek era will be upgraded again

Everyone.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Deimos walking into Low 1-C ready to beat literally nobody

 

[chosen]

Everyone.

Tier 1 hermes

 

[KLOL506]

Surtr indirectly wanking Primordials of all Pantheons is surely a wild treat.

Surtr after looking at Blades of Chaos: Yeah there's Primordial Fires in them.

Kratos: They are not of these lands.

Surtr: Shouldn't matter.

And here people thought Ragnarok was going to debunk the cosmology. Instead, it acts as a clutch save to bring back Tier 1 Athena and establish 5D Low 1-C Chaos, just as ParadoxIndifferent and Gilver intended.

 

[Diamentus]

And here people thought Ragnarok was going to debunk the cosmology. Instead, it acts as a clutch save to bring back Tier 1 Athena and establish 5D Low 1-C Chaos, just as ParadoxIndifferent and Gilver intended.

Well technically it was the cookbook