God of War: Ragnarok Discussion Thread

[KLOL506]

"Alternate planes of existence" could simply be referring to the fact that the realms/planets exist across 9 separate universal Space-Time continuums?

Nah, nothing like that is implied as such.

And the realms don't "contain" their own outer spaces. They are located in 9 different outer spaces. Surtr destroys Asgard, but did he destroy its outer space? Because only the pieces of Asgard the planet were scattered around the 9 realms.

That doesn't explain the realms having their own Sun and Moon and not facing any of the eclipse-related shenanigans of Vanaheim.

I'm just saying that while Ares did teleport Kratos to a pocket realm, the galaxy in it was an illusion.

Doesn't matter if the galaxy was illusory or not, Ares would still need to know what the actual thing looks like and how it functions, so he most definitely picked it off of a pre-existing one in the Greek World and used that to **** with Kratos. But again, creating an entire dimension is a lot more likely than just using illusions given the evidence we have since it's considerably easier to do so for him.

 

[Hellbeast]

Ye, weird indeed. Though Kratos's affection for the wolves is hiding something.
Ye, they're repeatedly stated to be reflections of each other.
Repeatedly they mention the "world" and "all of Midgard" in 2018.
Sun and Moon stuff.
The feathers on her hair? Duh.

1) Perhaps 2) Aye 3) I mean, could "the world" in this context simply refer to Midgard as a region? The all of Midgard line seems more meaningful if you assume it's a planet or reality unto itself and not just a land 4) Elaborate? 5) Yeah I know, I just don't get the same native american vibes

"Alternate planes of existence" could simply be referring to the fact that the realms/planets exist across 9 separate universal Space-Time continuums? All the realms could simply be parallel versions of Midgard (except for Muspelheim and Nilfheim).

And the realms don't "contain" their own outer spaces. They are located in 9 different outer spaces. Surtr destroys Asgard, but did he destroy its outer space? Because only the pieces of Asgard the planet were scattered around the 9 realms.

I'm just saying that while Ares did teleport Kratos to a pocket realm, the galaxy in it was an illusion.

1) Hmmm 2) This is something I'm interested in tbh 3) Yeah but if it's an illusion he'd need to know what a galaxy is, otherwise it wouldn't be there (even if it's only a fraction of a true galaxy)

 

[Planck69]

"Alternate planes of existence" could simply be referring to the fact that the realms/planets exist across 9 separate universal Space-Time continuums? All the realms could simply be parallel versions of Midgard (except for Muspelheim and Nilfheim).

Maybe. But we don't rate things on the site based on what they could be merely what we are told. And what we're told is that they're alternate planes that reflect each other.

And the realms don't "contain" their own outer spaces. They are located in 9 different outer spaces. Surtr destroys Asgard, but did he destroy its outer space? Because only the pieces of Asgard the planet were scattered around the 9 realms.

This wouldn't really make sense since no matter what direction you go, you'd still just be moving adjacent to the other realms' equivalent locations ala the Niflheim-Alfheim example.

I'm just saying that while Ares did teleport Kratos to a pocket realm, the galaxy in it was an illusion.

Literally what implies this?

 

[KLOL506]

Elaborate?

The Sun and Moon being round and casting eclipses like normal day to day scenarios.

 

[KLOL506]

Maybe. But we don't rate things on the site based on what they could be merely what we are told. And what we're told is that they're alternate planes that reflect each other.

Yeah, we don't go off of examples of "could be", only by what already "is".

This wouldn't really make sense since no matter what direction you go, you'd still just be moving adjacent to the other realms' equivalent locations ala the Niflheim-Alfheim example.

Completely forgot about this.

Literally what implies this?

Honestly there'd be no point. It'd just be way more effort for Ares than to just simply mindhax him with the image of a galaxy instead of BFR'ing him like that and then creating the illusion of a galaxy in the background (He mindhaxes in the GOW1 novel, fun fact, though it gets retconned in the GOW2 novel and plays out just like the games).

 

[Hellbeast]

The Sun and Moon being round and casting eclipses like normal day to day scenarios.

Why would that imply the earth isn't flat?

 

[CrisisCrysis]

That doesn't explain the realms having their own Sun and Moon and not facing any of the eclipse-related shenanigans of Vanaheim.

The 9 realms aren't 9 universes. They are 9 parallel planets existing across 9 universes. That explains how they have their own star systems. Since the planets are mirroring each other, that's how each of them have their own versions of Egypt and stuff.

Nah, nothing like that is implied as such.

This interpretation makes the most sense since it goes in-line with what Bruno said. It also goes in-line with the games since the murals always show the realms as planets resting on the Yggdrasil's strands. It also goes in-line with the actual myths (I know GoW isn't typically accurate to the mythology) which treat the 9 realms are planets and not fully-formed universes.

 

[KLOL506]

The 9 realms aren't 9 universes. They are 9 planets existing across 9 universes. That explains how they have their own star systems.

Kinda doesn't work given the whole Alfheim-Niflheim situation.

This interpretation makes the most sense since it goes in-line with that Bruno said. It also goes in-line with the games since the murals always show the realms as planets resting on the Yggdrasil's strands. It also goes in-line with the actual myths (I know GoW isn't typically accurate to the mythology) which treat the 9 realms are planets and not fully-formed universes.

Once again, Alfheim-Niflheim situation. No matter whatever direction you take from those realms, you'd end up in that same location on the other different realm.

 

[KLOL506]

Why would that imply the earth isn't flat?

Partly because the realms are perfect reflections of each other and thus sharing pretty much everything the other realms have.

 

[Hellbeast]

Partly because the realms are perfect reflections of each other and thus sharing pretty much everything the other realms have.

I once again ask, why is Midgard round then if not for the stars thing you mentioned?

 

[KLOL506]

I once again ask, why is Midgard round then if not for the stars thing you mentioned?

Jormungandr encircling it.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Kinda doesn't work given the whole Alfheim-Niflheim situation.


Once again, Alfheim-Niflheim situation. No matter whatever direction you take from those realms, you'd end up in that same location on the other different realm.

Because the 9 realms are stacked on top on each other. And Matt Sophos said in an interview that the realms mirror each other. They are geographically the same (that's why Alfheim and Nilfheim have their own versions of Egypt).

 

[KLOL506]

Because the 9 realms are stacked on top on each other. And Matt Sophos said in an interview that the realms mirror each other. They are geographically the same (that's why Alfheim and Nilfheim have their own versions of Egypt).

Alfheim as per the Bifrost door is stacked on top of Vanaheim tho, Niflheim below it. They're on separate branches.

Also how do you explain the travel example being also valid for realms on the other side of the branches?

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Also, now that I'm thinking from the perspective of a downplayer, why can't the Yggdrasil's strands "stretching into infinity" be a hyperbole? I mean, Ratatoskr says that the branches can overgrow and fall. That shouldn't be the case with an infinite-sized branch.

 

[Planck69]

Kinda doesn't work given the whole Alfheim-Niflheim situation.


Once again, Alfheim-Niflheim situation. No matter whatever direction you take from those realms, you'd end up in that same location on the other different realm.

I mean, even if it he were right, the Yggdrasil explicitly supports all of creation upon it so nothing about the scaling would change since it'd still be a structure that supports 9 different universes. Of course, no such implication of such universes exists so it's a moot point on Crysis' part.

 

[Planck69]

Also, now that I'm thinking from the perspective of a downplayer, why can't the Yggdrasil's strands "stretching into infinity" be a hyperbole? I mean, Ratatoskr says that the branches can overgrow and fall. That shouldn't be the case with an infinite-sized branch.

Even if it were, nothing really changes?

 

[KLOL506]

Also, now that I'm thinking from the perspective of a downplayer, why can't the Yggdrasil's strands "stretching into infinity" be a hyperbole? I mean, Ratatoskr says that the branches can overgrow and fall. That shouldn't be the case with an infinite-sized branch.

He's referring to the stray branches that grow on the main branch, hence the whole horticulture thing.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Alfheim as per the Bifrost door is stacked on top of Vanaheim tho, Niflheim below it. They're on separate branches.

Also how do you explain the travel example being also valid for realms on the other side of the branches?

That doesn't change anything. The realms still mirror each other geographically. So basically if you're in Nilfheim's Egypt and pass the dimensional gateway to Alfheim, you'd be in Alfheim's version of Egypt.

 

[KLOL506]

That doesn't change anything. The realms still mirror each other geographically. So basically if you're in Nilfheim's Egypt and pass the dimensional gateway to Alfheim, you'd be in Alfheim's version of Egypt.

You can do the same with the other realms on the opposite side of the tree. The Alfheim-Niflheim example was just one such way, it doesn't stop applying to the other realms on the other side either.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Even if it were, nothing really changes?

If we aren't considering the "transcending Space-Time" statement, the Well of Destiny's "infinite timelines" statement, and the "strands stretching into infinity" statement, what tier would the Yggdrasil even be?

 

[KLOL506]

If we aren't considering the "transcending Space-Time" statement, the Well of Destiny's "infinite timelines" statement, and the "strands stretching into infinity" statement, what tier would the Yggdrasil even be?

The only thing that we aren't considering here is the "infinite timelines" statement from the card game. Every other statement here still clicks, just that they don't imply existential superiority unless further evidence comes in. And time being young when Ymir was born.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

You can do the same with the other realms on the opposite side of the tree. The Alfheim-Niflheim example was just one such way, it doesn't stop applying to the other realms on the other side either.

Since all the 9 realms are geographical mirrors, it doesn't matter. If you're in Midgard's Egypt and teleport to Nilfheim, you'd still be in Egypt. It'd just be Nilfheim's version of it.

 

[KLOL506]

Since all the 9 realms are geographical mirrors, it doesn't matter. If you're in Midgard's Egypt and teleport to Nilfheim, you'd still be in Egypt. It'd just be Nilfheim's version of it.

Okay and? How does this debunk the realms not having their own outer space when the Spark of the World is damning evidence of that?

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

So one thing I want to know, if every realm has it's version of Egypt, does that mean we're on that realms version of earth when we travel there?

 

[Dienomite22]

The realms include their outer space as well. Ymir's skull was used to create space within God of War's Norse mythology and Surtr form the stars. Ymir's skull was explicitly depicted to have created Midgard's outer space but thanks to Ragnarok we know it wasn't just Midgard.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Okay and? How does this debunk the realms not having their own outer space when the Spark of the World is damning evidence of that?

Again, the Yggdrasil or the realms don't "contain" an outer space. They just exist across 9 different outer spaces. That still doesn't change the fact that someone destroying the realms would only be 5-B, as the realms themselves are just geographical mirror planets existing across 9 different universes. Spark of the World isn't a realm. It's a space which bridges 2 realms, and it containing galaxies and nebulae is natural.

 

[KLOL506]

The realms include their outer space as well. Ymir's skull was used to create space within God of War's Norse mythology and Surtr form the stars. Ymir's skull was explicitly depicted to have created Midgard's outer space but thanks to Ragnarok we know it wasn't just Midgard.

Interesting. Is that scan within the mural of Ymir getting whacked as well?

 

[Planck69]

@BEASTHEART880 Essentially. Which is why this discussion is so silly. We know that they're;

- Alternate planes of existence.
-Mirror each other
- Separated by the branches of the World Tree.

Them being planets in separate universes, sharing an outer space etc. aren't implied anywhere beyond "it could work" and thus, aren't usable.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

The realms include their outer space as well. Ymir's skull was used to create space within God of War's Norse mythology and Surtr form the stars. Ymir's skull was explicitly depicted to have created Midgard's outer space but thanks to Ragnarok we know it wasn't just Midgard.

And? How does that prove that the realms are entire universes, and not just 9 planets across 9 universes?

 

[Dienomite22]

Interesting. Is that scan within the mural of Ymir getting whacked as well?

yes

 

[KLOL506]

Again, the Yggdrasil or the realms don't "contain" an outer space. They just exist across 9 different outer spaces. That still doesn't change the fact that someone destroying the realms would only be 5-B, as the realms themselves are just geographical mirror planets existing across 9 different universes.

Again, no, the realms have their own Sun and Moon. That alone puts a massive wrench in your assumption.

Spark of the World isn't a realm. It's a space which bridges 2 realms, and it containing galaxies and nebulae is natural.

It existed before the Realms did due to its primordial nature.

 

[KLOL506]

And? How does that prove that the realms are entire universes, and not just 9 planets across 9 universes?

Because the image only states about Midgard's sky, not the "sky" that we supposedly see from Yggdrasil.

 

[Dienomite22]

And? How does that prove that the realms are entire universes, and not just 9 planets across 9 universes?

Because in order for the logic that they are only planets to work that would mean Ymir's skull didn't create outer space which is noted on the shrine to also be Midgard.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

@BEASTHEART880 Essentially. Which is why this discussion is so silly. We know that they're;

- Alternate planes of existence.
-Mirror each other
- Separated by the branches of the World Tree.

Them being planets in separate universes, sharing an outer space etc. aren't implied anywhere beyond "it could work" and thus, aren't usable.

My interpretation makes the most sense since it goes in-line with what Bruno said. It also goes in-line with the games since the murals always show the realms as planets resting on the Yggdrasil's strands. It also goes in-line with the actual myths (I know GoW isn't typically accurate to the mythology) which treat the 9 realms are planets and not fully-formed universes. Heck, it even goes in-line with Matt saying that the realms are geographical mirrors of each other.

 

[KLOL506]

And Odin forged the other realms himself. No reason they wouldn't share the exact same features.

 

[KLOL506]

My interpretation makes the most sense since it goes in-line with what Bruno said. It also goes in-line with the games since the murals always show the realms as planets resting on the Yggdrasil's strands. It also goes in-line with the actual myths (I know GoW isn't typically accurate to the mythology) which treat the 9 realms are planets and not fully-formed universes. Heck, it even goes in-line with Matt saying that the realms are geographical mirrors of each other.

It doesn't. The Ymir scan alone debunks all notions of this. You're just repeating yourself at this point.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Because in order for the logic that they are only planets to work that would mean Ymir's skull didn't create outer space which is noted on the shrine to also be Midgard.

So Ymir created the Space-Time of the 9 universes alongwith the 9 planets in them and Surtr filled the said universes with stars. Again, what does it contradict?

 

[KLOL506]

So Ymir created the Space-Time of the 9 universes alongwith the 9 planets in them and Surtr filled the said universes with stars. Again, what does it contradict?

Here's a problem, Ymir didn't create the realms, Odin did, time existed before Ymir and is stated to be young when he was born (A greater timestream than the realms themselves), nothing existed before Ginnungagap.

 

[Planck69]

My interpretation makes the most sense since it goes in-line with what Bruno said. It also goes in-line with the games since the murals always show the realms as planets resting on the Yggdrasil's strands. It also goes in-line with the actual myths (I know GoW isn't typically accurate to the mythology) which treat the 9 realms are planets and not fully-formed universes. Heck, it even goes in-line with Matt saying that the realms are geographical mirrors of each other.

Which contradicts the game and would be unusable. It's rather tiring to see people think that the series scaling comes from WoG when the latter is used like 99% of the time to confirm things already in the games and secondary canon.

Using actual mythology for scaling is a no-no. Like, fundamentally, they're different adaptations so that doesn't work as proof.

The murals depict spheres resting on the branches because how else would they depict the realms? They could be multiverses and the depiction wouldn't matter.

The realms as a whole are the planes of existence. That they mirror each other not only makes this whole thing about shared outer space a null point but separate universes has to be showcased or stated not "interpreted".

 

[Dienomite22]

Bringing this back up again. And yes these tweets can be found on Matt Sophos' twitter.