God of War: Ragnarok Discussion Thread

[CrisisCrysis]

5-B Yggdrasil

The 9 realms could just be planets spread across the universe (and yes, Time flows differently depending upon where the planet is located in outer space), or they could be spread across 9 different universes/planes of existence (that explains how each of them have their "own" outer space according to Matt). The realm tears only threaten the planets/realms on which they are present i.e. they are planet level voids (Mimir also called them voids in GoW: R). I don't know why, but this shit's unironically making too much sense.

 

[Planck69]

Are we really discussing leading Twitter questions seriously?

 

[Hellbeast]

I mean, t.b.h. everything he said lines up with the lore (except the Thor V.S. Jormi, but maybe in Kratos' version of Ragnarok the Yggdrasil wasn't splintered?). Maybe 5-B Yggdrasil is real, after all.

Honestly Ygg is definitely 2-C, even without Midgard it transcends time (So Low 2-C) and is stated to seemingly have their own time. I think it's more that Yggdrasil somehow is an adjacent structure to the Earth, kinda like the Marvel Universe take

The issue with Midgard being that small is that Space-Times of the tier 2 caliber need to be at least universal in size to quantify for tier 2

If Yggdrasil isn't scaling to places at least universal in size (aka if Midgard is just earth and all the other realms are equal in size), then there's a huge issue of them being tier 2 via Yggdrasil

I believe it's mentioned Alfheim has it's own reflection of Egypt so it's possible the other realms are larger?

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, the Norse Realms weren't ever infinite in size to begin with, only the branches of the tree.

Though the last part is just as contradictory, as the Pantheons are separated by Geological divides. It would also make no sense for the Greek Pantheon's aspects like the Underworld to exist alongside Helheim, way too contradictory.

Well at least it proves that the Realm Tears are destructive on their own.

These questions lmao

This one is just Bruno being down bad LMAO

 

[KLOL506]

The 9 realms could just be planets spread across the universe (and yes, Time flows differently depending upon where the planet is located in outer space), or they could be spread across 9 different universes/planes of existence

Kinda contradicted by the realms being given their own Sun and stars by Surtr.

 

[KLOL506]

Honestly Ygg is definitely 2-C, even without Midgard it transcends time (So Low 2-C) and is stated to seemingly have their own time.

It's also stated in the novel to have branches stretching out to infinity.

I think it's more that Yggdrasil somehow is an adjacent structure to the Earth, kinda like the Marvel Universe take

The realms definitely don't seem to share the Sun and Moon of Vanaheim either.

I believe it's mentioned Alfheim has it's own reflection of Egypt so it's possible the other realms are larger?

I don't think they're stated to be larger than the other, just that if you opened a portal on Alfheim's Egypt to Niflheim you'd end up on that exact spot on Niflheim's Egypt, so to speak.

 

[Hellbeast]

I've long suspected something similar though tbh, the pantheons are definitely reachable via physical motion so I'm wondering if there's one physical "Earth" with a bunch of adjacent realities branching outwards. So we could have the Nine Realms linked to Midgard (which I believe is stated be to be Scandinavia specifically) and we have the DoD, the Underworld and the Realm of Night all being branches from the "Mediterranean". Like this image of the sacred Timeline but the strands are alternate realms and realities, tied to each pantheon

It's also stated in the novel to have branches stretching out to infinity.

I know, it's definitely worth noting

The realms definitely don't seem to share the Sun and Moon of Vanaheim either.


I don't think they're stated to be larger than the other, just that if you opened a portal on Alfheim's Egypt to Niflheim you'd end up on that exact spot on Niflheim's Egypt, so to speak.

I know, my point is that the statements imply that Midgard may not have Egypt as part of it's purview, while the others may have an equivalent somehow. The Sun and Moon is weird tho, is it separate from the one Midgard has?

 

[KLOL506]

Are we really discussing leading Twitter questions seriously?

Yeah I have issues with the first and third tweets.

Both seem contradictory to what Bruno has reiterated before TBF. Even when Bruno stated of "no universes" being at play, only "geographical divides", he still made mention of Greek Pantheons (or World) and the Norse Pantheon/World being 100% separate from each other, and right afterwards stated that the higher know-hows of the cosmology rests in the hands of the narrative writers and directors who know more than him. It's also contradictory to what Cory has reiterated before countless times that the Greek Universe and Norse Universe are part of a greater universe.

The last tweet is just straight up a leading question and Bruno literally forgot, plus it's one of those "WoG contradicted by source material" because Mimir admits the legend to be finally true.

 

[KLOL506]

I've long suspected something similar though tbh, the pantheons are definitely reachable via physical motion so I'm wondering if there's one physical "Earth" with a bunch of adjacent realities branching outwards. So we could have the Nine Realms linked to Midgard (which I believe is stated be to be Scandinavia specifically) and we have the DoD, the Underworld and the Realm of Night all being branches from the "Mediterranean". Like this image of the sacred Timeline but the strands are alternate realms and realities, tied to each pantheon

This "Earth" could be part of the "greater universe" that Cory was talking about I believe.

I know, it's definitely worth noting

Pretty sure it was already noted from the day the novel came out.

I know, my point is that the statements imply that Midgard may not have Egypt as part of it's purview, while the others may have an equivalent somehow. The Sun and Moon is weird tho, is it separate from the one Midgard has?

Yeah, it's 100% separate, has its own night cycle and doesn't rely on Vanaheim at all.

Also Midgard having only one region, Scandivania, is super weird to boot.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I've long suspected something similar though tbh, the pantheons are definitely reachable via physical motion so I'm wondering if there's one physical "Earth" with a bunch of adjacent realities branching outwards.

That is how the verse is canonically structured yes

 

[KLOL506]

Why couldn't gameplay be used to grant resistances? If that's the case, most game characters shouldn't have any

Not the main gameplay aspect. The main issue is that one doesn't get enough orbs to upgrade it well enough to get the Chimera Summon early enough, that's the part which is game mechanics.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

Kinda contradicted by the realms being given their own Sun and stars by Surtr.

Surtr could've simply created all the stars across the universe or the 9 universes. Doesn't contradict anything.

 

[Hellbeast]

This "Earth" could be part of the "greater universe" that Cory was talking about I believe.


Pretty sure it was already noted from the day the novel came out.


Yeah, it's 100% separate, has its own night cycle and doesn't rely on Vanaheim at all.

Also Midgard having only one region, Scandivania, is super weird to boot.

1) It's possible, this is one of the most confusing things rn 2) I know, I'm saying we need to keep it in mind to counter "lmao 5-B Ygg" 3) Ok so that means the other have their own celestial bodies 4) True but idk, it kinda lines up based off what we've heard (and what I've long suspected as you know). I think it's fair to believe this Scandinavia is far larger then our own tho

That is how the verse is canonically structured yes

It's how it seems, the question seems to have been whether or not the pantheons are their own "TARDIS" like cosmologies (IE larger within their borders then without) but I'm starting to think the "Marvel" analogy is making sense

Surtr could've simply created all the stars across the universe or the 9 universes. Doesn't contradict anything.

That's possible, we know he restored heat to the cosmos

 

[KLOL506]

That is how the verse is canonically structured yes

And yet nobody can travel from Norse to other Pantheons without the Unity Stone.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It's how it seems, the question seems to have been whether or not the pantheons are their own "TARDIS" like cosmologies (IE larger within their borders then without) but I'm starting to think the "Marvel" analogy is making sense

From what ive been told, the guidebooks have it that each 'pantheon' is just a country on a single planet with a dome sky cosmology

 

[KLOL506]

That's possible, we know he restored heat to the cosmos

He didn't restore heat, the realms were just brand new and stock. He just gave them immense heat to form the Sun and Stars across the realms.

 

[KLOL506]

From what ive been told, the guidebooks have it that each 'pantheon' is just a country on a single planet with a dome sky cosmology

Eh no, no such statement exists. The closest thing that comes is from Twitter statements saying that each Pantheon is separated by a "Geographical Divide". Dome skies don't exist in any sensible measure of the word in the verse, anywhere.

Geographical divides and realms are also not interchangeable.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And yet nobody can travel from Norse to other Pantheons without the Unity Stone.

Which in and ov itself is contradicted by how Kratos got to the Norse pantheon

 

[CrisisCrysis]

He didn't restore heat, the realms were just brand new and stock. He just gave them immense heat to form the Sun and Stars across the realms.

Mimir just stated that Muspelheim is the source of all the stars across the 9 realms, and that it brought heat to the young cosmos. Honestly? This doesn't really contradict anything. Surtr could still be 4-A, but the realms seem 5-B now. The Yggdrasil would be high 3-A for its infinite branches though. Everything lines up.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Eh no, no such statement exists. The closest thing that comes is from Twitter statements saying that each Pantheon is separated by a "Geographical Divide". Dome skies don't exist in any sensible measure of the word in the verse, anywhere.

Geographical divides and realms are also not interchangeable.

I can try to grab the guidebook if you'd like

 

[KLOL506]

I can try to grab the guidebook if you'd like

If you can show me the scan that'd be great.

 

[KLOL506]

Which in and ov itself is contradicted by how Kratos got to the Norse pantheon

Greece just be built different.

Also the Greek Mortal World is Flat, Norse realms/"planets" aren't.

 

[Hellbeast]

And yet nobody can travel from Norse to other Pantheons without the Unity Stone.

I mean tbh IDK about that, we've seen Kratos make the journey (as does the hooded woman in the novel) and Mimir, none of whom are stated to have used the Stone

He didn't restore heat, the realms were just brand new and stock. He just gave them immense heat to form the Sun and Stars across the realms.

Misspoke, I meant he introduced heat to the Cosmos

From what ive been told, the guidebooks have it that each 'pantheon' is just a country on a single planet with a dome sky cosmology

TBH Idk about this one, it's a weird unknown though considering we see galaxies in Ares' dimension somehow (meaning he knows of them)

Eh no, no such statement exists. The closest thing that comes is from Twitter statements saying that each Pantheon is separated by a "Geographical Divide". Dome skies don't exist in any sensible measure of the word in the verse, anywhere.

Geographical divides and realms are also not interchangeable.

Yep, that and the usage of "lands" and "shores" in both the Norse GOW games (there's statements in the older games but it goes either way)

Mimir just stated that Muspelheim is the source of all the stars across the 9 realms, and that brought heat to the young cosmos. Honestly? This doesn't really contradict anything. Surtr could still be 4-A, but the realms seem 5-B now.

IDK about the realms being 5-B, there's still stars and seemingly galaxies (the latter is at least in the RBR) and we know they contain their own suns and moons

Mimir just stated that Muspelheim is the source of all the stars across the 9 realms, and that it brought heat to the young cosmos. Honestly? This doesn't really contradict anything. Surtr could still be 4-A, but the realms seem 5-B now. The Yggdrasil would be high 3-A for its infinite branches though. Everything lines up.

He would have had to conjured that heat though right? Especially since he's mentioned as the originator of heat

Greece just be built different.

Also the Greek Mortal World is Flat, Norse realms/"planets" aren't.

Do we know the Norse Realms are rounded? I recall a depiction in 2018 implying so but idk

I can try to grab the guidebook if you'd like

This would be dope, i know there's stuff in Lore and Legends mentioning Midgard is the "Northern Lands" implying southern lands and this lines up with the description of the Native American Pantheon in the "Western Lands"

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cant fin the guidebook online for free, will order it and get back to you

 

[Hellbeast]

Cant fin the guidebook online for free, will order it and get back to you

What's the name of the guide, I know the Capcom server has a few

 

[CrisisCrysis]

IDK about the realms being 5-B, there's still stars and seemingly galaxies (the latter is at least in the RBR) and we know they contain their own suns and moons

Eh... Didn't you read my previous reply? The 9 realms/planets can simply be located in different universes/at different planes of existence. That's why they have their own deep outer space. The Yggdrasil's strands cut between the universes and house the 9 planets/realms on its infinite branches.

 

[Planck69]

The realms as a whole are called the "alternate planes of existence" not just located there. So no, that wouldn't actually work.

Edit: Not to mention them occupying the same "space" would debunk them just being planets somewhere in space.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean tbh IDK about that, we've seen Kratos make the journey (as does the hooded woman in the novel) and Mimir, none of whom are stated to have used the Stone

So, was Kratos already in Norse when he got assaulted? Or did he get assaulted in an unknown location and got brought to the Norse when he realizes it after waking up?

Maybe Tyr could've even given them a ride and waited until the assailants finished their job to come back. That or the Giants have their own ways. Like the Giant Magic stuff.

Misspoke, I meant he introduced heat to the Cosmos

Ye, the cosmos.

TBH Idk about this one, it's a weird unknown though considering we see galaxies in Ares' dimension somehow (meaning he knows of them)

Yeah, the realms can't be 5-B under any circumstance just by the virtue of theim having their own Sun and Moon separately. And yeah, the Norse side of things are shown to have countless constellations and galaxies, heck, the Spark of the World has its own galaxies, nebulae and constellations within it that isn't seen anywhere else, not even from Yggdrasil.

Eh... Didn't you read my previous reply? The 9 realms/planets can simply be located in different universes/at different planes of existence. That's why they have their own deep outer space. The Yggdrasil's strands cut between the universes and house the 9 planets/realms on its infinite branches.

That doesn't explain those stars and constellations being contained within the realms tho, certainly doesn't do wonders for each of the Realms having their own separate Sun and Moon.

Also, the realms are repeatedly called "Alternate planes of existence", like Planck said, in the novel.

IDK about the realms being 5-B, there's still stars and seemingly galaxies (the latter is at least in the RBR) and we know they contain their own suns and moons

Pretty much what I stated above. Plus the whole "alternate planes of existence" thing.

He would have had to conjured that heat though right? Especially since he's mentioned as the originator of heat

Correct.

Do we know the Norse Realms are rounded? I recall a depiction in 2018 implying so but idk

Yeah, Jormi encircling the Earth. And some Vanaheim stuff.

This would be dope, i know there's stuff in Lore and Legends mentioning Midgard is the "Northern Lands" implying southern lands and this lines up with the description of the Native American Pantheon in the "Western Lands"

Is it me or does Freyr and Freya have a Native American appearance?

 

[Hellbeast]

Eh... Didn't you read my previous reply? The 9 realms/planets can simply be located in different universes/at different planes of existence. That's why they have their own deep outer space. The Yggdrasil's strands cut between the universes and house the 9 planets/realms on its infinite branches.

They've got to be their own planes somehow, kinda like DC's universes

The realms as a whole are called the "alternate planes of existence" not just located there. So no, that wouldn't actually work.

Not to mention them occupying the same "space" would debunk them just being planets somewhere in space.

Yep, they share the same space, just operate on different levels of reality seemingly (I think the Revenants do that too)

 

[CrisisCrysis]

TBH Idk about this one, it's a weird unknown though considering we see galaxies in Ares' dimension somehow (meaning he knows of them)

Ares must have sent Kratos to an illusionary dimension.

 

[Planck69]

Ares must have sent Kratos to an illusionary dimension.

Uh, no? Based on what we see of the battle from the perspective of our fight with Atropos in II, it's definitely a real place that Kratos got transported to, considering we see him disappear.

 

[KLOL506]

Ares must have sent Kratos to an illusionary dimension.

Kind of not the point.

Point is, for Ares to even make such an illusion, he'd need to know what a Galaxy looks like in the first place.

And no, the dimension was legit BFR as per GOW2.

 

[KLOL506]

Uh, no? Based on what we see of the battle from the perspective of our fight with Atropos in II, it's definitely a real place that Kratos got transported to, considering we see him disappear.

GOW2 Novel confirms this too.

 

[Hellbeast]

So, was Kratos already in Norse when he got assaulted? Or did he get assaulted in an unknown location and got brought to the Norse when he realizes it after waking up?


Yeah, the realms can't be 5-B under any circumstance just by the virtue of theim having their own Sun and Moon separately. And yeah, the Norse side of things are shown to have countless constellations and galaxies, heck, the Spark of the World has its own galaxies, nebulae and constellations within it that isn't seen anywhere else, not even from Yggdrasil.


That doesn't explain those stars and constellations being contained within the realms tho, certainly doesn't do wonders for each of the Realms having their own separate Sun and Moon.

Also, the realms are repeatedly called "Alternate planes of existence", like Planck said, in the novel.


Pretty much what I stated above. Plus the whole "alternate planes of existence" thing.


Yeah, Jormi encircling the Earth. And some Vanaheim stuff.


Is it me or does Freyr and Freya have a Native American appearance?

1) This is a good question, he makes it seem he came to the Norse Lands of his own power but the novel implies he was brought there, it's fucky 2) Agreed, at the very least they're Tier 4 because they contain stars and constellations 3) I agree with this, they're clearly alternate dimensions somehow 4) I'm aware of Jormi encircling the Earth (though I wonder if it's the planet or the region) and I'm unaware of the Vanaheim stuff 5) Eh Freya no but I see it for Freyr

 

[KLOL506]

Uh, no? Based on what we see of the battle from the perspective of our fight with Atropos in II, it's definitely a real place that Kratos got transported to, considering we see him disappear.

Another possibility could be that Ares merely found this random-ass dimension in the middle of nowhere, but the point still stands.

He'd still need to know what a galaxy is and what it looks like to even envision sending Kratos to such a place, or casting an illusion on him like that.

 

[Hellbeast]

Kind of not the point.

Point is, for Ares to even make such an illusion, he'd need to know what a Galaxy looks like in the first place.

And no, the dimension was legit BFR as per GOW2.

Yep, at the very least only part of the dimension is "illusion" though I think it's more like the Aerophagus from DC and is a reality Ares can just mold as he wishes

Another possibility could be that Ares merely found this random-ass dimension in the middle of nowhere, but the point still stands.

He'd still need to know what a galaxy is and what it looks like to even envision sending Kratos to such a place, or casting an illusion on him like that.

Agreed, either the galaxy is real and Ares' illusion is recreating the day he murdered his family or the place is real but ll within is fake. Regardless though, he'd know what a galaxy is, implying they'd exist

 

[KLOL506]

1) This is a good question, he makes it seem he came to the Norse Lands of his own power but the novel implies he was brought there, it's fucky

Ye, weird indeed. Though Kratos's affection for the wolves is hiding something.

3) I agree with this, they're clearly alternate dimensions somehow

Ye, they're repeatedly stated to be reflections of each other.

4) I'm aware of Jormi encircling the Earth (though I wonder if it's the planet or the region)

Repeatedly they mention the "world" and "all of Midgard" in 2018.

and I'm unaware of the Vanaheim stuff

Sun and Moon stuff.

5) Eh Freya no but I see it for Freyr

The feathers on her hair? Duh.

 

[Planck69]

Another possibility could be that Ares merely found this random-ass dimension in the middle of nowhere, but the point still stands.

Personally, I'm more of the opinion that him making it when pushed by Kratos makes more sense than a random Tier 3 realm existing for no reason.

He'd still need to know what a galaxy is and what it looks like to even envision sending Kratos to such a place, or casting an illusion on him like that.

True.

 

[CrisisCrysis]

They've got to be their own planes somehow, kinda like DC's universes

"Alternate planes of existence" could simply be referring to the fact that the realms/planets exist across 9 separate universal Space-Time continuums? All the realms could simply be parallel versions of Midgard (except for Muspelheim and Nilfheim).

And the realms don't "contain" their own outer spaces. They are located in 9 different outer spaces. Surtr destroys Asgard, but did he destroy its outer space? Because only the pieces of Asgard the planet were scattered around the 9 realms.

And no, the dimension was legit BFR as per GOW2.

I'm just saying that while Ares did teleport Kratos to a pocket realm, the galaxy in it was an illusion.

 

[KLOL506]

Yep, at the very least only part of the dimension is "illusion" though I think it's more like the Aerophagus from DC and is a reality Ares can just mold as he wishes

Agreed, either the galaxy is real and Ares' illusion is recreating the day he murdered his family or the place is real but ll within is fake. Regardless though, he'd know what a galaxy is, implying they'd exist

Exactly my point. Whether or not it's a real dimension that has been created by Ares, or whether it is illusory in nature. Is completely irrelevant. He'd still need to have in-depth knowledge of the damn thing he's making an illusion of, that's how he knew he could exploit Kratos's weakness for his family to kill him because the warrior he had himself molded to tear down Olympus was now beating his ass down.