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God of War: Another Minor AP Upgrade + Some Acausality Justification Fixes

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KLOL506

KLOL506

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VS Battles
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Aite boys, another monthly minor GoW CRT where we still don't bother with the actual Runics and stuff.

Okay so, here's the gist. The GoW peeps will scale to 11 unis instead of 9.

Basically, a few months back, we made an AP upgrade for GoW buffing Greece to 9 universes here. The reasoning for why it would scale remains the same as the CRT where it was made. Except now there's two more timelines to take into account. Which ones, you might ask? Of course, it's the time mirrors!

During Kratos' battle with the Sisters of Fate, Atropos sends him through one of the mirrors and goes back in time to their battle with Ares. In doing so, she explains that one of the powers of the Fates is to rewrite the past and create a new future i.e. timeline. And merely travelling back in time does this, showcased by how Atropos's re-entry into the fight with Lahkesis from back in time is described as being another world as well as time. With developer confirmation as well that Kratos changed the timeline by going back in time, even including the timeline where Kratos failed to stop Atropos. There are at least 4 alternate mortal universes confirmed; the alternate timelines born from Kratos' fight with the sisters (one where he stops the Blade's destruction and one where he dies), the alternate timeline born from his confrontation of Zeus a second time and the at least 1 extra timeline implied by Zeus killing the Spartans in every timeline. All of this is already in the Explanation Page.

But that's just the Mirror in the middle. There are two more mirrors flanking it on its left and its right. Said mirrors are literally stated to contain alternate time dimensions, as per the GoW2 Brady Guidebook. Providing further support to them being alternate timelines, as well as adding two additional timelines in the mix.

That being said, this would raise the number of space-times in the Greek Pantheon in GoW to 11. The Five Main Realms (Mainline Mortal World, The Underworld, The Domain of Death, Nyx's Dimension of Eternal Night, Morpheus's Realm of Dreams), the Four Alternate Mortal Timelines (The one where Kratos wins, the one where Kratos dies, the one where Kratos shoves aside Zeus, and at least one additional pre-existing timeline where Zeus pretty much whacks Kratos' entire Spartan army), and the two additional Time Mirrors which lead to two alternate time dimensions.

So, we currently use this scan to indicate that "Time was young when Ymir was born" in both our Yggdrasil page and in the Explanation page.

However, it has since been brought to my attention that the translation can also mean "In Times of Yore, when Ymir existed". TL; DR, the translations can mean anything. So what do we do?

To quash any confusion regarding this matter, we have since finally found some wank in the Official Cookbook of the Nine Realms, Page 77 (Yes, we finally have the book to exploit, and yes, you heard the name right. It be a cookbook). It explicitly states that time was created when Odin killed Ymir and spilled his life-blood with his spear. Funny how a cookbook cooks wank for a verse instead of actually telling you how to cook food.

As a result, the Acausality justifications would have to be changed accordingly and the Explanation Pages would have to be updated accordingly as a result.

This would also grant Acausality Type 4 to the following people (Who all existed prior to Odin whacking Ymir)
  • Odin himself (Obviously)
  • Ymir (Haven't made a profile for him yet, but will do so soon enough)
  • Surtr (Came right after Ymir)
  • Villi, Ve, Buri, Borr, Audumbla, Sinmara (No profiles for these guys yet, nothing worth indexing thus far)
Reason? They all predate time's creation. Ironically, this would make them the original Norse Primordial Gods, and it would follow a parallel of how time came to be in Greece as well.

Agree: 16 (10 staff members) - Theglassman12, Planck69, Marvel_Champion_07, TokiNoOuja, Eseseso, Dereck03, QrowBarr, KingTempest, DarkDragonMedeus, Georredannea15, Elizhaa, LordGriffin1000, Kenny Mccormick 0v0, Fixxed, Dust_Collector, Lonkitt,

Disagree: 0

Neutral: 0
 
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KLOL506 said:
Reason? They all predate time's creation. Ironically, this would make them the original Norse Primordial Gods, and it would follow a parallel of how time came to be in Greece as well.
Click to expand...
But living before time or in a place where time doesn't always exist hasn't granted anything?

I always saw Glass saying that for type 4 acausuality it was necessary to mention that x character works/operates in a different system of laws.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
But living before time or in a place where time doesn't always exist hasn't granted anything?

I always saw Glass saying that for type 4 acausuality it was necessary to mention that x character works/operates in a different system of laws.
Click to expand...
That's just one of two ways of getting it.

Only thing it doesn't give is either Infinite speed or Immeasurable speed.
 
KLOL506 said:
The other way is to operate on different rules of causality.
Click to expand...
Was that literally what I said?

Being told directly that x character operates on different laws/laws of causality.

And I don't see any quotes like that?

I can only see saying that they existed before their time. But I've never seen it used for current acausuality.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
Was that literally what I said?

Being told directly that x character operates on different laws/laws of causality.

And I don't see any quotes like that?
Click to expand...
Like I said, you can get it via 1 or the other.

Phsccarvalho said:
I can only see saying that they existed before their time. But I've never seen it used for current acausuality.
Click to expand...
The tiering system FAQ also states the following:

Q: What Tier is Transcending Space and Time?


A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is qualitatively superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor.

It is perfectly possible for a statement like transcending space and time to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. It's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space." Transcend space and time can also refer to a spacetime continuum being different to a "regular" spacetime continuum (Say, a strange-looking reality that may hold a few different physical laws, for example) or slightly do be more complex than a regular universe, even significantly so, but not qualitatively superior. Something A being said to "transcend" something B in real life can refer to the former being superior to the latter in some qualities in a notable way, but still roughly compatible. It does not necessarily mean transcendence not in an immeasurable way that would be graphically indescribable, such as A's qualities being superior to B by infinite amounts. With this in mind, statements of realities or beings with transcendence over space & time/the universe/etc., on their own, are not assumed to refer to qualitatively superiority, unless of course further context may elaborate on and contextualize this.

It should also be noted that simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. A good example of a case like this is Dormammu (Marvel Cinematic Universe), who is stated to exist in a realm "far beyond time," yet never actually displays any superiority over it, and is in fact vulnerable to time-based abilities due to his timeless nature.
Click to expand...
 
KLOL506 said:
Like I said, you can get it via 1 or the other.
Click to expand...
From what I see in the OP, it is neither one nor the other.
-
-
-
In the case of this FAQ, is it updated for this part of Acausuality? Because in Castlevania, at the time Chaos creatures had type 4 acausuality because of being "removed from the concept of time" it was listed as "probable" and not a solid classification.

Could you tag Glass to clear up this doubt?
 
Phsccarvalho said:
From what I see in the OP, it is neither one nor the other.
Click to expand...
It's the "predates time" part, which is pretty much the same as existing in a place without time.

Phsccarvalho said:
In the case of this FAQ, is it updated for this part of Acausuality? Because in Castlevania, at the time Chaos creatures had type 4 acausuality because of being "removed from the concept of time" it was listed as "probable" and not a solid classification.

Could you tag Glass to clear up this doubt?
Click to expand...
@Theglassman12
 
KLOL506 said:
Okay so, here's the gist. The GoW peeps will scale to 11 unis instead of 9.

Basically, a few months back, we made an AP upgrade for GoW buffing Greece to 9 universes here. The reasoning for why it would scale remains the same. Except now there's two more timelines to take into account. Which ones, you might ask? Of course, it's the time mirrors!

During Kratos' battle with the Sisters of Fate, Atropos sends him through one of the mirrors and goes back in time to their battle with Ares. In doing so, she explains that one of the powers of the Fates is to rewrite the past and create a new future i.e. timeline. And merely travelling back in time does this, showcased by how Atropos's re-entry into the fight with Lahkesis from back in time is described as being another world as well as time. With developer confirmation as well that Kratos changed the timeline by going back in time, even including the timeline where Kratos failed to stop Atropos. There are at least 4 alternate mortal universes confirmed; the alternate timelines born from Kratos' fight with the sisters (one where he stops the Blade's destruction and one where he dies), the alternate timeline born from his confrontation of Zeus a second time and the at least 1 extra timeline implied by Zeus killing the Spartans in every timeline.

But that's just the Mirror in the middle. There are two more mirrors flanking it on its left and its right. Said mirrors are literally stated to contain alternate time dimensions, as per the GoW2 Brady Guidebook. Providing further support to them being alternate timelines, as well as adding two additional timelines in the mix.

That being said, this would raise the number of space-times in the Greek Pantheon in GoW to 11. The Five Main Realms (Mainline Mortal World, The Underworld, The Domain of Death, Nyx's Dimension of Eternal Night, Morpheus's Realm of Dreams), the Four Alternate Mortal Timelines (The one where Kratos wins, the one where Kratos dies, the one where Kratos shoves aside Zeus, and at least one additional pre-existing timeline where Zeus pretty much whacks Kratos' entire Spartan army), and the two additional Time Mirrors which lead to two alternate time dimensions.
Click to expand...
umm

wouldn't the mirrors make, more groups of 9?

like wouldn't there be an underworld, death domain, night dimension, etc. of the past?
 
KingTempest said:
umm

wouldn't the mirrors make, more groups of 9?

like wouldn't there be an underworld, death domain, night dimension, etc. of the past?
Click to expand...
No, only the Mortal World is confirmed to have alternate timeline counterparts.

Underworld can't have it anyway because it resists changes to its own past, as was elaborated upon in the original CRT to upgrade to 9 unis, plus it having the one World Pillar without which the entire Greek Pantheon goes poof. Domain of Death, Nyx's World and Morpheus's Realm operate on different rules as well.

EDIT: One could up the wank and take it to 2-B via the number of threads involved (Which enable the Mirrors being used) and Bruno's tweet regarding the whole "Zeus kills Spartans in every timeline" but that is simply not bulletproof enough to gun for 2-B like that, we need something more solid, so this is the best we could do.
 
@Phsccarvalho Castlevania’s possible type 4 back then was assuming that the other creatures of chaos also get this, but that would also assume they’d be nonexistent too which we don’t have much info on, plus GoS has a more blatant statement for type 4 so it doesn’t matter in the end.

existing before time can work if it includes being before history/fate and time is somewhat connected to fate, which GoW has this implied given the sisters of fate’s own powers span across time itself as stated in the novel so it can work for type 4z
 
I think it more make sense the timeline in the mirror is countless, just like the developer say

But yeah i agree
 
Fixxed said:
I think it more make sense the timeline in the mirror is countless, just like the developer say

But yeah i agree
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we require far more than just that to get 2B these days. Which is a shame really. There was potential.
 
Just a tiny reminder. All the links in my OP were with static.wikia. I have changed them to vignette.wikia. But they're the same images as before in the original CRT where the timeline stuff was handled (As well as the Explanation Page, where I copied the points from), so OP's proposals and reasonings have not changed one bit, I merely fixed the links.
 
Last edited:
KLOL506 said:
Just a tiny reminder. All the links in my OP were with static.wikia. I have changed them to vignette.wikia. But they're the same images as before in the original CRT where the timeline stuff was handled (As well as the Explanation Page, where I copied the points from), so OP's proposals and reasonings have not changed one bit, I merely fixed the links.
Click to expand...
That’s alright. It’s just a format change, so no votes have to be redone
 
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