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I know that, but there's absolutely no basis to RtZ being massively faster than GER, so if something has to be scaled to MiH's top speed, then it would be GER itself, not its hax.
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GERs Speed is outdated
- Thread starter SSJRyu1
- Start date
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I mean, it goes both ways too unfortunately, there's nothing indicating they're the same either.
And as people hold issue with the Epitaph scene as him not being infinite, and if we take that as true, then that's actually the basis that would say RTZ and GER aren't the same speed, which just means RTZ itself is infinite given we know something is and there's no reason to assume otherwise or even a single contradiction, even slightly, in that regard.
While there's no explicit basis, if GER being tagged by King Crimson within Epitaph (technically it was Giorno that got hit, but still), then that would be basis as to why they're different.
And, well i don't like to admit it, it COULD be his speed, but it could ALSO be his ability speed, as something like Whitesnake has confirmed that to be a thing that may occur (his awful speed is due to his acid hax speed, and Araki has clarified in jojoveller that his physical speed is actually like A rank). And that seems to be what has been accepted already and hence why this has even gone on as long as it has.
I mean, it's not me you wanna convince here, it's the opposition.
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So it seems like the best solution we could get to is:
"At least MFTL physically, possibly/likely Infinite with RTZ"
If there isn't enough evidence to say that it is 100% infinite speed without a doubt, but there is a strong possibility or likelihood of it, then this solution could work. Although I have to admit I'm not an expert when it comes to classifying infinite levels of speed, especially when it's concerning just abilities and their activation speeds.
Could the people who are against the infinite speed for RTZ explain why this solution wouldn't work?
"At least MFTL physically, possibly/likely Infinite with RTZ"
If there isn't enough evidence to say that it is 100% infinite speed without a doubt, but there is a strong possibility or likelihood of it, then this solution could work. Although I have to admit I'm not an expert when it comes to classifying infinite levels of speed, especially when it's concerning just abilities and their activation speeds.
Could the people who are against the infinite speed for RTZ explain why this solution wouldn't work?
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Honestly the erased time thing should be legit, GER can think and move in it, which Diavolo pointed already only he should be able to move or affected by the ability
Let alone nobody is "moving" in time erase, they are forecasts which he says in the fight with Bruno, especially when Aerosmith bullets go through him showing they arent present there and just Diavolo is
But whatever
Let alone nobody is "moving" in time erase, they are forecasts which he says in the fight with Bruno, especially when Aerosmith bullets go through him showing they arent present there and just Diavolo is
But whatever
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That's not even close to the best solution. From where did you take that? Do we need to repeat for the 10th time that the infinite speed rating is something solid, and not a possibility?
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Then at least try to read some of the arguments before commenting? That's why CRT are created, that's why arguments are made. Read them before, and then, give your opinion
Try to count the votes and read the arguments. You'll see that Chariot already took care of the arguments against infinite speed
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Just put "At least MFTL physically, Infinite with RTZ" and be done with it
Anyone who doesnt like the infinite rating should just deal with it, nothing suggests that one to be wrong and arguments against it were dealt with
Anyone who doesnt like the infinite rating should just deal with it, nothing suggests that one to be wrong and arguments against it were dealt with
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If the Infinite speed is indisputable, then yes: "At least MFTL physically, Infinite with RTZ" could be fine. This isn't far off from what I stated anyway...
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I don't think anyone is against it all in regards to that specific wording, the biggest opposition is "list it as possibly".
Though I don't know why we should list it as possibly, at the end of the day, we know two big things (a bunch of smaller things too), GER's None in speed is due to upscaling every single stand that uses the system and the stats as a whole, including the Infinite Stands (who are rated as such in canon by wog) and that, not even in their wildest dreams could MIH or something like BIG ever get a drop on RTZ. (Hell, the newest guide even says it has the ability to act against everything and that it's the single most ultimate ability in the verse at the time (probably still true tbh if you ignore noncanon, only decent thing that's came since has been WoU, and that's like diet love train but offensive instead of defensive, pretty cool though, been working on a profile, just waiting for a few things to get clarified as it's an ongoing arc).
The biggest issue lies in if it's GER itself or RTZ that's scaling to the likes of peak MIH and BIG, this, is an actually reasonable worry and we do not know for certain and as there's precedence like with Whitesnake as his speed is his acid hax, not itself phsyically, I'm not against it because it's a fair complaint.
I'm fine with giving GER itself a hard downgrade, the opposing arguments for that have some merit even if I'm not entirely on board with the specifics of the points, I can at least understand why those points exist and there's some truth to it but RTZ itself should be straightforward imo.
Though, I actually do appreciate you trying to be an unbiased 3rd party and you're being reasonable given your position as the 3rd party here and getting this shit over and done with is something I'd agree on before I even posted here.
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It is. "Possibly" or "likely" would be against all the statements and what GER itself is. That would also create a "possibility" for GER to be defeated by Made In Heaven, and that's not possible.
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I think: At Least MFTL, Likely Higher. Infinite with RTZ.
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Well, the reason for that could be the fact that Made in Heaven does not start at infinite speed. It's something that it needs to build up to, and RTZ would just stop it before it could get close to infinite levels of speed. Presumably.
This isn't an argument either way, I'm just saying that "It's impossible for Made in Heaven to beat Gold Experience Requiem" isn't just dependent on speed.
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That's been brought up, many, many times.
The thing is, that doesn't actually effect the end result, what matters is MIH's peak speed (demonstrably infinite, he's even managed to hit it canonically and in story before), and if he's rated as such at his peak.
Also absolutely nothing is supposed to be able to get past it, if MIH sat there and opted to accelerate to max speed before closing in to strike him, it'd still be like "sike bitch".
a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶M̶I̶H̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶m̶e̶m̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶G̶E̶R̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶n̶o̶n̶c̶a̶n̶o̶n̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶p̶i̶s̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶f̶,̶ ̶b̶l̶o̶o̶d̶l̶u̶s̶t̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶s̶u̶m̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶x̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶e̶x̶t̶r̶e̶m̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶c̶l̶o̶s̶e̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶t̶r̶e̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶c̶i̶f̶i̶c̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶r̶a̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶h̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶t̶r̶u̶e̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶s̶i̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶M̶I̶H̶,̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶,̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶a̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶R̶T̶Z̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶t̶r̶y̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶l̶e̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶.̶ ̶
Ignore that last bit though, we can't use that, I'm just saying it's a pretty common thing statistically even officially.
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Read. The. Arguments. Please.
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Well, aside from exceptions most normal just make the matter more chaotic and are pretty unreliable, a bunch of staff being called in a less long thread could make them keep up with it and ideally allow them to participate. But yes they likely won't do so with that given to them due to being busy as of now.
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Huh that's a new one, nice taste.
I mean, at least in regards to this thread, 90% of the people who even posted didn't actually partake extensively, it's actually been pretty tame bar me and like two other dudes, so wasn't really a quantitive issue.
But yeah, everyone who needs to be here is already here or are busy and aren't coming (or are MIA, because I actually have no clue where a few relevant dudes are), doing this again is something I really, really don't wanna do.
Anyway, you got any input, imo I think infinite for RTZ and MFTL/etc for base is a fair and reasonable conclusion that factors in everything we know in play while also taking into account the opposing points that have merit but it seems that's not something as agreeable to as I thought.
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- Thread starter
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I'm still not sold on RtZ being infinite as an absolute given the context behind the nature of BiG and MiH reaching infinite speed is a roundabout way via hax only under certain circumstances, despite their rating which I am well aware of, and the fact the statement for GERs "none" stat being superior is guide only, so I would still choose RtZ as "possibly infinite", or a hax with no particular speed attached personally. However I will say that GERs physical stats being mftl is agreed upon as acceptable by almost everybody here since the start, including me, so I would support mftl physically and RtZ being outright infinite before I supported his physical stats being outright infinite.
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disagree fra
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What do you disagree with?
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There's effectively two speeds we're talking about here. One is GER's physical speed and the other is the activation speed of RtZ (Technically they both are GER's speed). I feel like only the activation speed of RtZ has any grounds to be infinite/possibly infinite/unknown (for A. activating in erased time and B. for being qualitatively superior to BIG and MiH) because physically GER simply scales as >>> KC
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If you're aware of it then you're also aware of why the LITERALLY DOESNT MATTER. Holy shit, I could understand if this was an actual argument but you're literally ******* saying "I know they can reach Infinite, I know they're able to hit said speeds even if it's through an ability and I know GER scales above their ratings regardless of the how, but I'm still going to disagree". At that point you disagreeing isnt based on anything, it's just you saying you disagree without a single semblance of an actual argument, that's disagreeing just to disagree not because there's actual merit to said disagreement.
And no, BIG isn't infinite via hax or under any "special circumstances", I went through the original japanese scans to ******* make sure of that.
Hell, I don't think you realize that MIH and BIG don't even need to exist for this, as long as the rating exists and we know the rating legit means what it does, then the points stands.
Not an argument and will ******* never be an argument and fails to realize that it's actually still in the manga so even if it was an argument, which it isn't and shouldn't even be brought as if it was one, it wouldn't ******* matter. Actually, this is such a nonargument it doesn't matter, I could understand if the line from the guide was contradicted, wasnt consistent or was written by someone who isnt the sole author, but none of those are true and it only makes it worse because the important part comes from the manga, the guide just clarifies what the thing in the manga meant.
Given you just reiterated why you think that, and it's the exact same two literal nonargumentive points, absolutely not and the latter is pretending and ignoring shit and purposely omitting important information. It's hax, it's a special move and technique, that is true, you're not wrong to think that because it's an objective fact , but that doesn't matter, if it has a speed it has a speed.
Well unfortunately you're beginning to make me think we should outright list him as Infinite if you want to go the route of RTZ not having a speed which isn't actually stated by anything or implied as such, but hey, if we go that route, then we know it was talking about GER itself.
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I know it has already been mentioned but it bears repeating that this isn't a great argument because the stand stats are written by Araki himself and part of the official canon
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As stated, at max speed they ARE infinite in speed. SP can grab a fly-sized stand without crushing it but it can also you know.... crush DIO'S skull like it was cardboard. So are we ganna argue that SP's strength == fly now? Point is at max potential both BIG and MIH reaches infinite in speed.
Its also supported by the manga itself. I feel like you're treating the guidebooks like they are as relevant as jorge joestar.
This is if we ignore blatant evidences. Trust me, this will only create more problems than it'll solve. I've been in enough ger threads to know this.
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Neither I see RtZ as faster than GER btw, simply because it's not true nor shown in manga.
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Goes both ways unfortunately.
And given the conclusion reached is that RTZ kicked in when GER wasn't active within the time erase, there's already precedence, there's actually nothing indicating they have to be the same speed, or that they are at all.
Them being the same or them not being the same isn't said or implied for either, ergo, we just go on what we know and see and come to a conclusion based on the info and evidence we have.
If RTZ > GER, then that's the way it is and nothing says otherwise, it's unfortunate of course but if that's what the evidence suggests then that's how it has to be.
And as people think that the Epitaph vision is basis for GER not being infinite or the stats have a chance of referring to RTZ, not him itself, both add up to the unfortunate conclusion that RTZ is above above GER and that RTZ is faster than GER itself can act.
I don't really agree on the Epitaph counterpoint myself but I understand why people think that and the latter point is subjective, but if the first point is true then the second one becomes more then just a bit sided.
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Who says that isn't GER who didn't want to **** around with Diavolo to make him suffer? I mean, Giorno always did like this
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Rtz not being infinite speed
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Oh, he definitely did, GER definitely went out of his way to make Diavolo suffer, ****, Diavolo's end is literally a fate worse then death.
The issue is, if King Crimson tagged Giorno in Epitaph, then that makes GER being infinite a little sus and if the conclusion reached about the time scene is that GER couldn't act before RTZ kicked in, then unfortunately, we have evidence suggesting RTZ>GER and evidence saying while extremely high and still a hilariously above a God Tier in speed, GER itself isn't equal to RTZ and couple that with the stat having a very real possibility of referring to the ability speed and not GER physically...
Well, it's unfortunate but there's actual evidence in play to suggest they aren't the same and nothing to say they are indeed the same.
Though I don't agree with the Epitaph point, it's still a complaint of the opposition that isn't objectively false and the stat thing is a subjective interpretation that leans toward it being RTZ if the former of the Epitaph point is deemed true.
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A question: when the JJBA Stats were reffering to just an ability and not the whole of the stand itself? Because you're talking like there were cases of when a single Stand Ability got stats all for itself, Stand Stats were reffering always to the Stand itself, and not to just an ability. And I'm not talking about cases as MiH or Black Sabbath where just a stat gets upgraded because of an ability, but of a single ablity getiing different stats from the Stand's base ones.
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That's false, there's been times where an ability is explicitly rated over the Stand, of course the stats in question may not ALL refer to the ability, like GER's attack power? Is clearly about how hard he can punch if he wanted.
But things like range? Have been commonly been used to refer to an ability's range, not the Stand's manifest or attack range for example.
And in regards to the speed referring to an ability and not the Stand itself?
That actually has been a thing and something we know can happen, in fact, Araki himself at one point has explained as such, Whitesnake's speed stat being a D? Is explicitly because of the speed of his acid ability, the D is talking about his ability's speed, not his own speed (Araki then says that Whitesnake's actual speed for himself would be like an A if he had to rate that), meaning that, it's a thing and we can't forego the possibility that that's the case, and sadly that's looking to be the case.
Meaning, yes, GER's speed stat could very well be referring to his ability speed, not his own and we know that's a thing that can happen even if other stats aren't talking about the ability like the attack power. We outright have an explicit example by Araki himself explained in detail for a time that's happened. So, if there's evidence to say GER isn't infinite himself (even if I dont 100% agree with it) and there's an actual very real possibility that the stat is talking about RTZ, not him itself, then it speaks for itself.
And as said above, there's two main factors as to why RTZ could very easily be above GER itself and nothing to say otherwise, couple that with a speed stat explicitly being able to be that of an the Stand's ability, not them itself, it speaks for itself, like, it sucks but eh, not much any of us can do here.
I mean, it's not me you gotta convince, you basically have to figure out how the Epitaph vision adds up for base GER to be infinite to even be a option.
But things like range? Have been commonly been used to refer to an ability's range, not the Stand's manifest or attack range for example.
And in regards to the speed referring to an ability and not the Stand itself?
That actually has been a thing and something we know can happen, in fact, Araki himself at one point has explained as such, Whitesnake's speed stat being a D? Is explicitly because of the speed of his acid ability, the D is talking about his ability's speed, not his own speed (Araki then says that Whitesnake's actual speed for himself would be like an A if he had to rate that), meaning that, it's a thing and we can't forego the possibility that that's the case, and sadly that's looking to be the case.
Meaning, yes, GER's speed stat could very well be referring to his ability speed, not his own and we know that's a thing that can happen even if other stats aren't talking about the ability like the attack power. We outright have an explicit example by Araki himself explained in detail for a time that's happened. So, if there's evidence to say GER isn't infinite himself (even if I dont 100% agree with it) and there's an actual very real possibility that the stat is talking about RTZ, not him itself, then it speaks for itself.
And as said above, there's two main factors as to why RTZ could very easily be above GER itself and nothing to say otherwise, couple that with a speed stat explicitly being able to be that of an the Stand's ability, not them itself, it speaks for itself, like, it sucks but eh, not much any of us can do here.
I mean, it's not me you gotta convince, you basically have to figure out how the Epitaph vision adds up for base GER to be infinite to even be a option.
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All of these examples are talking like a Stand Ability was worth to have a whole Stats section from itself separated from the Stand's, which is obviously untrue. Unless you show me a whole Stand ability which has all the 6 Stand Stats ratings different from the Stand (and not just 1/2), the None reffer to all the GER stats. That's even implied in the manga, and the databook just confirmed what None means, not that just RtZ has Stats and GER doesen't.
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Uh, no it doesnt? Absolutely nothing says every single stat has to be talking about GER physically or RTZ completely, and we know, for an absolute fact that there has been multiple times before where a Stand's stats can talk about the Stand itself and the attributes of an ability in the EXACT SAME stat sheet, with some stats being about the stand itself and some referring to the ability's attributes.
You're acting like GER's stats have to be talking entirely about it, or entirely about the ability with no in-between, that's wrong, false and is complete conjecture, we know for a fact that doesn't have to be the case and absolutely nothing says it has to be, hell it's actually extremely common and how most Stands get rated, if anything it's actually basically undeniable that it's a mix of both in regards to GER based on his showings alone.
Nobody said otherwise, of course GER itself has stats, but you're acting like it has to be GER or RTZ. It doesnt specify either or, we just know what it entails and as such some facet of him scales to the big *******, and the evidence tells us, that sadly, at least with speed in particular, that it's RTZ, of course this is open to interpretation on which it could be talking about for any particular stat and it's subjective, but when other evidence points toward an actual conclusion in this regard, that's when the issue arises.
Like it or not, there's a very real possibility that GER's speed stat could be talking about his ability's speed and not himself, we know for a fact this can happen, we know for a fact this can and has happened (even when other stats are about something physically) and we know for a fact that it can happen even if the other stats are talking about some of the Stand's physical attributes, and not even just for speed, that goes for any single stat in particular, some stands have their attack power rated a certain way due to their ability's power, not them physically, or the range, or the staying, etc. the fact we have an explicit hard confirmed example by the author himself explaining that he can and has rated a Stand's speed due to their ability's speed and not the Stand itself tells us that, it can happen and is likely the case here based on the other evidence at hand (I'd also wager that GER's Range and Permeance/Staying stat are about RTZ as well with the latter being extremely blatant).
And unfortunately, there's absolutely nothing in the manga, guides or anything saying that GER=RTZ, but at the same time we have evidence and showings implying the opposite, in that RTZ>GER.
Meaning, if there's evidence to suggest that GER itself isn't infinite (Epitaph scene), that RTZ is above GER itself (time erase scene), nothing in any material says they're the same or close to the same speed, and that there's a precedence and possibility that GER's upscaling for speed could be talking about the ability, not him, then unfortunately, most evidence suggests it's the ability that is upscaling off MIH and BIG and the like.
For this to even be an argument, you have to first explain why Epitaph's vision doesnt discredit GER itself, and have it be actually true with zero conjecture or assumptions, because as long as that point remains, we know that at the very least RTZ>GER.
Like sorry dude, but everything we know is pointing toward the opposite and there's nothing to say it's the former.
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The abilities that you're talking about are just affecting 2 stats, not the whole of them. Saying that RtZ has Stats completely different from GER's is one hell of an assumption, when no ability had all the 6 stats different from the stand.
GER was called "The Ultimate Stand", so it can't be just RtZ being this much fast. GER being the ultimate stand implies that it's superior to any canon stand in any category, not just its Ability, is a contraddiction.
Except that's not. That's a thing that you made and that's contraddicting how JJBA always worked about Stats.
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You came here to try have GER keep infinite and now you kinda say otherwise from what you said earlier
Epitaph thing isnt a good example, King Crimson could have resumed time the moment his fist would be already be close enough to punch his heart, he wouldnt resume it way too early and even if that was an "anti feat", it gets bunked when we see GER blitzing with two rushes
Epitaph thing isnt a good example, King Crimson could have resumed time the moment his fist would be already be close enough to punch his heart, he wouldnt resume it way too early and even if that was an "anti feat", it gets bunked when we see GER blitzing with two rushes
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^This, GER blitzing Diavolo is kinda a supportive feat for its Infinite speed rating.
GER also controls RtZ like any Stand with Thought-Based abilities like Time Stop ones, there's no ability faster than the Stand in JJBA.
GER also controls RtZ like any Stand with Thought-Based abilities like Time Stop ones, there's no ability faster than the Stand in JJBA.
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Why are you strawmanning me? Like actually dude what the ****. I never said, I never implied that, I even went out of my way to explain as such in detail and gave an explicit example. So, tell me, why are you trying to say that's the argument here when it's not?
GER's stats can be a mix of both, that's it, we know this can and has happened, we know that even speed in particular can be that of the ability's, not the actual Stand, so, when everything points towards speed in particular being the speed of the ability, not GER, then it's the speed of the ability, not GER. This is basic, straightforward, and is something that you outright can't deny has happened and is known to happen before.
So no, nobody said that every single stat is RTZ, don't pretend that's the argument here when I've gone through great lengths to explain why that isnt the argument.
I hope you know that the ultimate stand line in particular is talking about his physical prowess. And "it cant just be RTZ being that fast" is an argument out of disbelief, it's a fallacy.
If we have EXPLICIT evidence to say GER ISNT that speed, and there's explicit evidence that says RTZ>GER, then like it or not, RTZ>GER and GER isnt infinite at base.
There is no contradiction, at all surprisingly, the only way there would be a contradiction is if we do what you're trying to say, which should tell you that maybe, there's an issue there.
I outright gave you a example explained in DETAIL by the author itself, I didn't make it up, Araki did, you have issue with that? Take it up with him, not me. Like it or not, GER's speed state could very well be talking about his ability's speed, this has happened before, your argument of "it has to be all GER or all RTZ for the stats" is completely false and is based on nothing, made even worse when we know that stats being a mix is a common occurrence. Dont say "the way it's always worked", because that's objectively false and is based on you thinking it must be all of them at once, which isn't the case.
I came here to try and reach a reasonable conclusion based on the evidence we have that adheres to what we know and is accurate. I'd ******* love to keep GER Infinite as a whole, but there's issues, and those issues aren't going to go away.
Yes, that's true, King Crimson would have resumed time the moment his fist was borderline touching Giorno, the issue lies in that, if GER itself had infinite speed, the exact moment time resumed, King Crimson would have failed to actually land that hit, no matter how small the distance, because he would be infinite in speed, hell, even assuming he didnt act till Giorno was actually physically touched, he would have had an infinite amount of time by his perspective to stop King Crimson before the punch did any real damage, much like how Star Platinum has been able to catch and react to things the moment they broke Jotaro's skin but without actually going any further.
GER can still be like a ludicrously large amount faster and still fail to defend against a surprise attack that he has literally all the time in the world to stop and would know it's happening the moment Giorno was touched, but that doesnt seem to be the case. If GER was infinite at base, he wouldn't have failed.
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Also GER wasnt affected by time erase, thats headcanon on whoever uses that, unless you wanna imply RTZ gets activated without GER doing it at all, let alone everyone was still under the time erase affect only GER and Diavolo were unaffected
So the conclusion out of this is GER pulled off RTZ during time erase before it was resuming back to kill Giorno
Also earlier i talked about the time erase too, none is present there physically, were told and shown about it, let alone if they were actually there, King Crimson could have just attacked them during it, yet he cant and its stated he cant attack as well in jojo a go go iirc
So the conclusion out of this is GER pulled off RTZ during time erase before it was resuming back to kill Giorno
Also earlier i talked about the time erase too, none is present there physically, were told and shown about it, let alone if they were actually there, King Crimson could have just attacked them during it, yet he cant and its stated he cant attack as well in jojo a go go iirc
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It'd only be support if we didn't see a limit to it as well, which we have.
Do you want a list or? Because you're more then just a little wrong on that one.
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Yes, that's what's been argued, GER was effected like everyone else till RTZ kicked in, before that, he was effected like everyone else. Only after RTZ acivated was GER able to act, according to Efi at least.
You're going to have to take that up with Efi, not me.
Yes, I'm well aware, given I kinda explained as much in my very first post this thread. Exactly, he can't actually attack in time erase, he can only attack outside of it, meaning his attack in Epitaph was real time, meaning if GER was infinite he'd have stopped it.
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