Genshin Impact Black Hole Problem

[LordJoshMeh]

Hello. There is an issue with Skirk and Narwhal's black holes.

1) Narwhal's black hole can be physically destroyed which is impossible stating from this page. And yes its physically because The Traveler uses their sword all the time.

2) Inside the Narhwhal's body there is a black hole held by a Dark Shadow which is stated above impossible and once again you can physically destroy it and also the rocks are suspended in the air instead of being sucked in if it was a real black hole.

3) Skirk's black hole can be physically held and even thrown which is also impossible from the same page.

4) You can obtain the "black hole" and hold it in your bag like its a physical thing. Even in the description say its a substance which is something physical.

5) In the The Black Hole Creation page it states: "It should also be noted that, even if the projectile resembles a black hole and shares the same basic function, it does not automatically qualify to be a real black hole. For further information, please see Black Hole Feats in Fiction."

So even though it is stated that light cannot escape, shows a tidal force, event horizon, and accretion disc and is implied to have a suction, due to the above contradictions the black holes portrayed by Skirk and Narwhal should be removed.

 

[Woomica]

Hello. There is an issue with Skirk and Narwhal's black holes.

1) Narwhal's black hole can be physically destroyed which is impossible stating from this page. And yes its physically because The Traveler uses their sword all the time.

According to dialogues Neuvillet actually gave Traveler protection to use Arkhe to destroy blackhole, now if Arkhe also is a part of Physicals i can agree

2) Inside the Narhwhal's body there is a black hole held by a Dark Shadow which is stated above impossible and once again you can physically destroy it and also the rocks are suspended in the air instead of being sucked in if it was a real black hole.

Same as above, and larger blackhole in narwhal stomach shatters when you kill Shadow of Narwhal like a glass so that one isnt

3) Skirk's black hole can be physically held and even thrown which is also impossible from the same page.

Unless object is physically and directly touched it would be impossible,her blackhole floats in her hand and on the same page it says they can be moved.

4) You can obtain the "black hole" and hold it in your bag like its a physical thing. Even in the description say its a substance which is something physical.

I dont think we can count holding items in bag as lore accurate, nor holding thousands of them that you posses in game, but this one is very interesting

5) In the The Black Hole Creation page it states: "It should also be noted that, even if the projectile resembles a black hole and shares the same basic function, it does not automatically qualify to be a real black hole. For further information, please see Black Hole Feats in Fiction."

So even though it is stated that light cannot escape, shows a tidal force, event horizon, and accretion disc and is implied to have a suction, due to the above contradictions the black holes portrayed by Skirk and Narwhal should be removed.

If you can prove stuff i asked for i will completely agree with removal but will keep resistances

 

[Puppet43]

The lifting black holes is just Lifting Strength feats it doesnt stop it from being a blackhole
Now for destroying blackholes, lets gave high tier 5A

 

[LordJoshMeh]

.

I mean even being empowered with Arkhe they still has to physically attack the black hole to destroy it.

Same as above.

Yes it can be moved, but only if you shoot stuff through it like the page states.

That's fair. I really just used that to say the black hole can be hold like it's a physical thing.

I'm new so I'm not sure how stuff works yet.

The lifting black holes is just Lifting Strength feats it doesnt stop it from being a blackhole
Now for destroying blackholes, lets gave high tier 5A

You can't lift or physically destroy a black hole. It's impossible.

 

[Puppet43]

You can't lift or physically destroy a black hole. It's impossible.

If you have gravity manip resistence and the strength to lift such blackholes then is plausible

 

[LordJoshMeh]

No.

"But a problem occurs if someone would try to hold a black hole in his hand, to kick it into an other direction, or do something similar."

"So while moving a black hole by shooting something into it is possible moving it through physical contact is impossible, because it would require an unreachable durability in order to remain whole when doing it."

 

[GarrixianXD]

Honestly, I'm confused about how black holes are really treated at this point. I'm not even sure how this Genshin black hole thing even passed on in the first place. Nonetheless, I think this is rather a job for the CGMs so call me neutral in this matter. But I'll precisely say that using game mechanics as a primary justification for this CRT is wrong.

 

[LordJoshMeh]

But I'll precisely say that using game mechanics as a primary justification for this CRT is wrong.

That's fair. I'm just basing this off where it was accepted in the first place.

Genshin impact BlackHole feat upgrade?

This is going to be the most controversal upgrade in my life for now (god help me) Hoyoverse games have been eating too good (Hi3 is 1-B and hsr is 4-A and 1-B with aeons) But im going to feed the middle child and this middle child is known as Genshin Impact INTRODUCTION This entire upgrade is...

vsbattles.com

The OP said the black hole was canon and game mechanics so I'm not sure how you deal with that.

Also what is CGM?

 

[Huesito88]

That's fair. I'm just basing this off where it was accepted in the first place.

Genshin impact BlackHole feat upgrade?

This is going to be the most controversal upgrade in my life for now (god help me) Hoyoverse games have been eating too good (Hi3 is 1-B and hsr is 4-A and 1-B with aeons) But im going to feed the middle child and this middle child is known as Genshin Impact INTRODUCTION This entire upgrade is...

vsbattles.com

The OP said the black hole was canon and game mechanics so I'm not sure how you deal with that.

Also what is CGM?

Calc Group Members

 

[Voidnether]

The lifting black holes is just Lifting Strength feats it doesnt stop it from being a blackhole
Now for destroying blackholes, lets gave high tier 5A

I don't think lifting a blackhole so casually like what Skirk does would count as a Lifting Strength feat.. And destroying blackholes = 5-A.. This is way worse than jujutsu kaisen what the hell

 

[Puppet43]

I don't think lifting a blackhole so casually like what Skirk does would count as a Lifting Strength feat.. And destroying blackholes = 5-A.. This is way worse than jujutsu kaisen what the hell

My malevolent kitchen techniques are superior to all of you

 

[Voidnether]

My malevolent kitchen techniques are superior to all of you

DO NOT BURN THE KITCHEN AGAIN

 

[Puppet43]

DO NOT BURN THE KITCHEN AGAIN

mavuika would recreate a tier 2 feat and we are gonna scale all archons tier to that + ftl speed, just wait for 5.1 or 5.3

 

[Voidnether]

mavuika would recreate a tier 2 feat and we are gonna scale all archons tier to that + ftl speed, just wait for 5.1 or 5.3

Wym mavuika is 11d she destroys the sea of quanta

 

[GarrixianXD]

That's fair. I'm just basing this off where it was accepted in the first place.

Genshin impact BlackHole feat upgrade?

This is going to be the most controversal upgrade in my life for now (god help me) Hoyoverse games have been eating too good (Hi3 is 1-B and hsr is 4-A and 1-B with aeons) But im going to feed the middle child and this middle child is known as Genshin Impact INTRODUCTION This entire upgrade is...

vsbattles.com

The OP said the black hole was canon and game mechanics so I'm not sure how you deal with that.

We saw the black hole in a cutscene so it is canon.

Also what is CGM?

Users here with a tag called Calculation Group under their profile picture.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

With this treasure I summon someone to ping CGM's


also don't we give a sh*t ton of char's tier 5-4 for destroying black holes anyways?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah, from the looks of it this does seem black hole-like maybe, but not exactly like an object with a weight several times that of Earth, the gravitational pull to suck up everything around it and disintegrate planets or with an all disintegrating event horizon that doesn't let anything escape and hence can't be destroyed.
Basically, it seems more like a ball of gravity than a celestial object.

 

[Woomica]

With this treasure I summon someone to ping CGM's


also don't we give a sh*t ton of char's tier 5-4 for destroying black holes anyways?

Nah thats puppet Iq, its just some chars get tier 5-4 by creating blackhole
But i can agree with removal if staff agrees too, im neutral for now

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Nah thats puppet Iq, its just some chars get tier 5-4 by creating blackhole

godzilla earth destroying 3...........

Not saying that they should be high 5-A (never played genshin because I've still got a piece of my sanity left) but I don't see how destroying a black hole is a counter

 

[DontTalkDT]

but I don't see how destroying a black hole is a counter

It is by the official rules on the matter. (unless it's done via reality warping or something)
If you think another verse does it wrong, what you should do is try to fix that verse.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

It is by the official rules on the matter. (unless it's done via reality warping or something)
If you think another verse does it wrong, what you should do is try to fix that verse.

God that’s gonna be a sad day for Godzilla fans……

 

[Puppet43]

God that’s gonna be a sad day for Godzilla fans……

Doesnt Goji Earth scales of hurting void anyways which is a 4D being?

 

[Psychomaster35]

From the looks of it, I agree that it isn't a real black hole.

 

[Infinitinet]

None of these feats describe the blackhole but rather how people interact with it, thus them doing things that are waivable over it being character dependent than otherwise. The evidence for seems to out way the evidence against as well. As such I disagree with this downgrade.

 

[LordJoshMeh]

Yeah, from the looks of it this does seem black hole-like maybe, but not exactly like an object with a weight several times that of Earth, the gravitational pull to suck up everything around it and disintegrate planets or with an all disintegrating event horizon that doesn't let anything escape and hence can't be destroyed.
Basically, it seems more like a ball of gravity than a celestial object.

From the looks of it, I agree that it isn't a real black hole.

Thank you. So what's the rules for removing something?

 

[Aernasilver]

You wait 48 hours before removing them, I believe.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I think it's obvious they are meant to be black holes, but if they violate wiki standards then oh well.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Not sure why this was applied already. Considering ActuallySpaceMan commented here after you applied this to character profiles.

I think it's obvious they are meant to be black holes, but if they violate wiki standards then oh well.

Mind if you clarify by what you meant by "if they violate wiki standards"? DT mentioned that black holes can't be physically destroyed, but that isn't the case here since no black holes were physically destroyed outside of the game mechanics.

 

[Tyri456]

Yeah, from the looks of it this does seem black hole-like maybe, but not exactly like an object with a weight several times that of Earth, the gravitational pull to suck up everything around it and disintegrate planets or with an all disintegrating event horizon that doesn't let anything escape and hence can't be destroyed.
Basically, it seems more like a ball of gravity than a celestial object.

Feel like we should distinguish game mechanics, from the actual thing, just because during gameplay it isn realistic in terms of interaction it doesn’t dismiss its lore.

 

[Aernasilver]

I mean it seems a bit disingenuous to ignore the gameplay but also use the gameplay to calc the Black Hole.

Anyways if we are ignoring the gameplay, how did the Traveler deal with the black hole?

The only Black Hole in cutscene was done by Skirk which shows her physically holding and throwing the Black Hole which according to the page violates it.

 

[Tyri456]

We are just using the gameplay to get a size reference for the black hole through a screenshot for pixel scaling, not to actually calculate anything within game mechanics as I used as comparison.
This could be done using a cutscene too, so technically, the gameplay isn’t directly involved in the calculation itself.

The traveler doesn’t actually interact with the black hole outside of game mechanics for the boss fight afaik. As for Skirk's cutscenes, it can be interpreted as her moving the black hole without physically touching it since it was floating already, which, according to the guidelines, is acceptable.

 

[Aernasilver]

I have no contention with that.

Ignoring the gameplay, the story has the Traveler fight the Whale which uses the Black Hole. So how would they deal with it? I don’t play Genshin so idk but according to the OP the Traveler fights with their sword so we can assume they would physically destroy it unless they reality warped it out of existence.

It was floating before it turned into a Black Hole which then falls into her hand like a ball which I’m pretty sure Black Holes don’t do that.

 

[LordJoshMeh]

Not sure why this was applied already. Considering ActuallySpaceMan commented here after you applied this to character profiles.

Mind if you clarify by what you meant by "if they violate wiki standards"? DT mentioned that black holes can't be physically destroyed, but that isn't the case here since no black holes were physically destroyed outside of the game mechanics.

Sorry I thought I just needed CGM to agree.

With all of this...there are some questions regarding the blackhole that you may ask:

• Is the blackhole thing canon,does it happen within the fight,how did neuvilette and traveler deal with it?

I believe so,this is because profiles in genshin impact such as Raiden Shogun have the specific abilities that are only shown in game:
For example:

• Spatial Manipulation (Retreats into a rift in space while performing The Final Calamity[1]) (this is clearly shown in the fight here)
• she also attacks with attacks like this, and this (both of theese moves happen in the fight on her second story quest,but im using the archon quest one since the narwhal feat also comes from archon quest) Another case is her son Scaramouche via:
• Setsuna Shoumetsu: Summons a gigantic sphere of electro then brings it down with enough energy to one shot the Traveler (please ignore the mona dodging the attack,shes just her)

with this...all other attacks in trounce domain fights (where narwhal fight is) the moves,techniques,and abilities were listed on the profiles of the characters that have their boss fight,therefore i believe this move of narwhal is to considered real:

Second:How did tartaglia,traveler,and neuvilette deal with the blackhole?

Well this is simple(i think): Some of the moves in Genshin Impact,have the certain game mechanic in order to be dealt with
for example: Final Calamity, Setsuna Shoumetsu,Aftershocks of the apocalypse.
So did we deal with the blackhole via game mechanic...or?
well the answer is both.
Why?Well in order to destroy blackhole in game you have to:
Use arkhe attack to destroy it which is actually canon within the game and story as all the fontaine characters get their specific arkhe (pneuma,ousia)
and you can attack blackhole several times fast enough in order to break it,and it would make sense since Tartaglia does not have arkhe since he is Snezhnayan and not Fontanian,while Traveler and Neuvilette have the arkhe,hence they can destroy blackhole. (albeit this argument is kinda weak,it is the only way of dealing with blackhole shown)

You guys say its game mechanics but in the old thread that got it upgraded it says its both so I am confused.

If it's not canon then the Whale's abilities should be removed.

 

[Woomica]

Gyatt damnit garrixian, all off weekly bosses profiles in genshin have their abilities in game on their profiles and even some of those are using game mechanics
Same goes for narwhal it litteraly mentions using arkhe to destroy the blackhole theres no confusion if they destroyed it outside game or not
Plus we have dialogue when we see blackhole in narwhal body

 

[Aernasilver]

Bruh.

 

[Voidnether]

Aren't you able to destroy the blackhole without Arkhe?

Looking on it again, the narwhal itself gets transformed into a blackhole so there's probably like a possibility that the narwhal is the blackhole itself. Don't know how to get myself around this though, because the blackhole isn't created in the first place by Skirt when she reduced narwhal's body iirc

 

[GarrixianXD]

Gyatt damnit garrixian, all off weekly bosses profiles in genshin have their abilities in game on their profiles and even some of those are using game mechanics
Same goes for narwhal it litteraly mentions using arkhe to destroy the blackhole theres no confusion if they destroyed it outside game or not
Plus we have dialogue when we see blackhole in narwhal body

Bro, you and Gianny were revising Genshin over the past months and y'all put goddamn game mechanic elements onto the pages. An evident invalid issue misconception that shouldn't be considered and can easily be avoided just became official information, so judging by the information y'all guys chose to put into the articles, this revision is most likely inevitably going to pass. I have no choice but to agree with this CRT because game mechanics information have been implemented on Genshin's profile pages.

Ranting aside... Aether could've defeated the Narwhall instead without interacting with the black hole since we've never seen him do it in any of the cutscenes, and a black hole being in a Narwhal's body doesn't imply that Aether destroyed a black hole in a physical sense. Then again, I doubt this discussion will matter further.

 

[GarrixianXD]

You guys say its game mechanics but in the old thread that got it upgraded it says its both so I am confused.

If it's not canon then the Whale's abilities should be removed.

The animation the whale performs is canon, not to mention we even saw a cutscene where the whale created a black hole in his mouth. The game mechanics are rather Traveller swapping characters and destroying stuff there and there.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Uh, yeah looking at everything this is pretty evident that it's not a real black hole. Gameplay mechanic scaling is actually wild

 

[Voidnether]

The animation the whale performs is canon, not to mention we even saw a cutscene where the whale created a black hole in his mouth. The game mechanics are rather Traveller swapping characters and destroying stuff there and there.

I honestly think the text that I bolded is better for justifications like these, proved myself right that physical attacks could actually destroy the game mechanics blackhole that was calculated for Narwhal lmao..

Like, it was implied here that Arkhe like Pneuma or Ousia just makes it faster to destroy Narwhal ingame

You could literally see here that I have no pneuma or ousia characters yet I'm still able to destroy the blackhole physically