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General Grievous question

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Yes. The quote from the novel of the movie in his disney key makes no sense anyway due to being noncanon, does any other profile does this?

Not sure about the "At least" tho.
 
Also regardless of whether Mace Windu gets downgraded or not, I still think Dooku and Anakin (maybe Obi-Wan) should get an "at least" or something to indicate that they are superior to the average Jedi Master, considering the fact that even RoS Kylo Ten and Rey has "At least High 7-C" (without the voices of the past Jedi).
 
Rey did mention that Kylo fears that he's not as powerful as Darth Vader. So that does make sense.
 
Should I make a new detailed revision thread (after ByAsura's one is over)? I also have issues with some of the speed ratings of some Canon characters.
 
Mace Windu explains that Grievous already replicated Vaapad, this means he couldn't fight him in lightsaber combat. Obi-Wan, on the other hand, has a very simplistic and elegant syle (Soresu) that can counter Grievous' own.

  • There is an understated elegance in Obi-Wan Kenobi's lightsaber technique, one that is quite unlike the feel one might get from the other great swordsbeings of the Jedi Order. He lacks entirely the flash, the pure boldelan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is nowhere in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become. He is simplicity itself. That is his power.
  • Before Obi-Wan had left Coruscant, Mace Windu had told him of facing Grievous in single combat atop a maglev train during the general's daring raid to capture Palpatine. Mace had told him how the computers slaved to Grievous's brain had apparently analyzed even Mace's unconventionally lethal Vaapad and had been able to respond in kind after a single exchange.
  • "He must have been trained by Count Dooku," Mace had said, "so you can expect Makashi as we ll; given the number of Jedi he has fought and slain, you must expect that he can attack in any style, or all of them. In fact, Obi-Wan, I believe that of all living Jedi, you have the best chance to defeat him." This pronouncement had startled Obi-Wan, and he had protested. After all, the only form in which he was truly even proficient was Soresu, which was the most common lightsaber form in the Jedi Order. Founded upon the basic deflection principles all Padawans were taught—to enable them to protect themselves from blaster bolts—Soresu was very simple, and so restrained and defense-oriented that it was very nearly downright passive.
  • "But surely, Master Windu," Obi-Wan had said, "you, with the power of Vaapad—or Yoda's mastery of Ataro—" Mace Windu had almost smiled. "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light. Master Yoda's Ataro is also an answer to weakness: the limitations of reach and mobility imposed by his stature and his age. But for you? What weakness does Soresu answer?" Blinking, Obi-Wan had been forced to admit he'd never actually thought of it that way. "That is so like you, Master Kenobi," the Korun Master had said, shaking his head. "I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form—or the master of the classic form?" "I'm very flattered that you would consider me a master, but really—" "Not a master. The master," Mace had said. "Be who you are, and Grievous will never defeat you." So now, facing the tornado of annihilating energy that is Grievous's attack, Obi-Wan simply is who he is.
During his battle with Sidious, Windu had to drop out of Vaapad in order to deflect a force blast, implying he can't use both at the same time and the former is only used to enhance lightsaber combat.

  • Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish. His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.
 
It does. Grievous has his style and is capable of countering it.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Ah makes sense then. So he is capable of fighting Sidious without Vapaad?
Click to expand...
He's incapable of fighting him without Vapaad, but the two are still comparable in the force.

Yoda was outmatched by Sidious because Banite Sith had adapted to their techniques.

  • There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark. It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from a flying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these were traded, too. It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to the great Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneath the Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred meters and more, so that it became a laser point of battle flaring at the focus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as the Force and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free of the curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams, catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in a rolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for the galaxy's new Emperor.
  • It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineage of the Jedi; when the lineag e of the Jedi refined into one single Jedi. It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark. In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force.
  • Finally, he saw the truth. This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just— didn't— have it. He'd never had it. He had lost before he started. He had lost before he was born. The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves. They had become new. While the Jedi— The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.
  • The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's own weapon? He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the galaxy. But if he fell here, th at hope would die with him. Hmmm, Yoda thought. A problem this is...
 
Watching the video in the OP, it actually says that Grievous never really mastered Vapaad, it's simply that Mace Windu saw him try in his fight against him and fear that he would potentially do so.

Also, I'm pretty sure the 2003 Clone Wars is not Canon though. At least we know that for Legends, Grievous never really mastered the style
 
Tbh now you brought this up I don't think anyone should scale to or scale from General Grievous other than Obi-Wan (who actually traded blows with him), since Grievous relies on perceiving Jedi movements and take advantage of their weaknesses using his 20 strikes-per-second offensive output. Which is why Obi-Wan's Soresu makes him the only one who could defeat Grievous.
 
I disagree, many could match Grievous by at least having their lightsabers colliding with him, which indicates comparable speed and strength.

Also I really don't like the "At least", the characters with it can still get harm by the characters without it, the real differences they have is in skill, the scale of their Force abilities and how some have some abilities others don't. There is some more power but not a lot.
 
Yeah, Grevious is comparable to other Jedi and other Force users through sheer muscular strength, but it's not like he's overwhelmingly stronger than those other Jedi.

I also heard there were other problems such as making every single Jedi 5-B for Legends, but I heard that's discussed later.
 
Also, one thing Grevious does have is that he's stated over and over again to be indestructible, which fits into how Obi-Wan can't harm him physically, which in turn fits into how everyone can cut each other with their lightsabers but survive physical hits from each other.

We should rank the profiles with the characters' physicality and a different AP or a "higher" with lightsaber/s (obviously empowered by the Force), that part being above their AP & durability. We have something somewhat like that on profiles but it's weird, it looks like durability negation but everyone knows it's not that.
 
Plus, the Lightsaber profile in general looks iffy, since it's mostly the wielder that determines how powerful a Lightsaber is like most melee weapons and not so much the Lightsaber generating that much energy.
 
So we should put something like "High 7-C, higher with lightsaber"? That seems fine to me.

And shouldn't Grievous's durability be higher if he can only be cut with lightsabers?
 
If you're talking about Revenge of the Sith, I'd say no.

Mace Windu VS Jango Fett (Episode II)
Mace Windu VS Jango Fett (Episode II)
 
I'm saying he shouldn't really scale. Unless there's another fight I'm unaware of.
 
Sure, unless, as I said before, there's another fight I don't know about.
 
First of all, that clip was Attack of the Clones, not Revenge of the Sith, Jango was literally stomped by Windu so he wouldn't even scale to begin with, and neither Jango nor Boba Fett are physically comparable to any Jedi Masters and often needed to surprise attack them to take them out.
 
Men what a way to get ignored.

Eficiente said:
Legends Jango Fett is a beast, we should consider better if he should scale.
https://youtu.be/a_WpUvxqpPE?t=84
Click to expand...
Jango defeated & killed Dooku's apprentice as a boss fight in his game, no surprise attacks or cheap tactics. The Jedi Jango took out & killed and his fight with Obi-Wan were both done due to pure combat skills and strategic tactics. And Windu considered Jando in high regard in and way before their duel, the latter did not got stomp, he didn't notice a failure in his jetpack, failed when trying to use it and got killed due to that.

The canon versions of most bounty hunter suck but the lagends version of Jango and Boba should very much scale in terms of speed.
 
In terms of combat speed and skill yes, not in terms of raw power. Pretty much what I meant.
 
Yes, pointing out the Jango Fett game again there is a pretty good LS feat there where he moves a Hutt[1].
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
First of all, that clip was Attack of the Clones, not Revenge of the Sith, Jango was literally stomped by Windu so he wouldn't even scale to begin with, and neither Jango nor Boba Fett are physically comparable to any Jedi Masters and often needed to surprise attack them to take them out.
Click to expand...
You're right.

I was saying that and agree completely.
 
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