Gems Soulessness removal

[WeeklyBattles]

From what we've seen no, they didnt. A lot of Gems were shattered in the war but Rose was vehemently against it and avoided it at any cost while Homeworld used the gem shards in experiments rather than destroy them.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Wait when did Steven obliterate a gem?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Assalt In the episode Together Breakfast

 

[CinnabarManx421]

From what we've seen no, they didnt. A lot of Gems were shattered in the war but Rose was vehemently against it and avoided it at any cost while Homeworld used the gem shards in experiments rather than destroy them.

Still means a lot of gems would have died. Rose couldn't be everywhere at once, and then you had Bismuth who literally made a weapon to shatter gems.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah but shattering isnt death for a Gem, theyre consistently shown to be alive even after their gemstones are shattered, its just that their consciousness is fragmented

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Man. 4 episodes in and he already killed someone.

I mean to be fair unless they figure out how to fix shattering that's basically a kill

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Some things are worse than death Weekly, do you really think it'd be better to be literally just a piece of your former self, never able to come back together, and potentially turning into a mindless monster, or just die and get it over with? I'll let you decide.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Assalt You know they will lol

Not necessarily, gems are constantly shown to still be alive after being shattered, their mind is just fragmented

 

[Antoniofer]

I think that the Clusters qualify as undead tho, and the yet they only appears when they are experimented with.

Anyway, I think the thread is concluded, but right now I can't change the profiles.

 

[FateAlbane]

This low-key turned into a general talk about SU.

...Uh, so... As before, count me for neutral in this thread. I'll go with whatever is decided by the end of the day.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

@Assalt You know they will lol

Not necessarily, gems are constantly shown to still be alive after being shattered, their mind is just fragmented

Also Weekly, we should probably talk about this over in my Diamond Days thread, but me and Paulo were discussing what would make SU OP if it ever got an Extended Universe like Star Wars, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Antonio What is there to change on the profiles exactly...? The only thing to change is my blog

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Yeah, the profiles don't list their resistances and stuff, the blog does.

 

[Antoniofer]

Huh, I though it were written in the profiles, less work then.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean if someone wants to give me the exact rewording i'll put it in right now

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Weekly

For me that's still a kill. "You" don't exist anymore. Pieces of the gem remain, but they are broken fragments of a precious whole. "You", depending on what theory of self you subscribe to, are the continuity of your body, the continuity of your mind, or your soul.

Their bodies have been destroyed, their minds broken apart, and apparently they are soulless. That's destruction of the self, and to me that's death.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

What was even decided on? The thread just turned into a discussion about souls in religion and people accusing each other of twisting words.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Meh, fair enough

Im tempted to bring up them having type 8 while everyone is here...

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Maybe? Thoughit might be better in it's own thread, this one turned pretty toxic.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Cinnabar Can I please ask you to refrain from summarizing a discussion of more than 100 replies like that?

It's tiresome when people start saying something I did was the equivalent of accusing anyone of x when I spend the entire thread watching my words. Pointing something that is happening out to better make my own point across is an entirely different thing from acccusing others.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I'm just saying what I saw man, I didn't mean nothing by it.

 

[Antoniofer]

@Cinnabar, according to our page about Soul Manipulation, the gems do not qualify as beings that do not possesses a soul, they are humans by all means except by being inorganic and possessing powers.

 

[FateAlbane]

What Antoniofer said.

We either go by this and remove it from their profiles or some revisions for the Soul Manipulation page itself should be done.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Antoniofer ...I see. Going by the Soul Manip page's current definition then, that "unless the statement is there they should be considered to have one" and no mention of inorganic/artificial something something, there should accordingly be no mention of it whatsoever in the profile.
...This does not even come from my view on the matter or another now. It's literally what the current state of the page for Soul Manip says, regardless of this thread.

/\

 

[CinnabarManx421]

What Antoniofer said.

We either go by this and remove it from their profiles or some revisions for the Soul Manipulation page itself should be done.

What like change how we define soul manip entirely? That could be it's own whole can of worms.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Cinnabar, according to our page about Soul Manipulation, the gems do not qualify as beings that do not possesses a soul, they are humans by all means except by being inorganic and possessing powers.

So highly advanced AI have souls?

 

[FateAlbane]

@Cinnabar Yes, I agree.

But by the current definition of the Soul Manip page, without a statement that you have no soul, you should be considered to have one.

So by that current definition, the gems should have a soul.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

@Cinnabar, according to our page about Soul Manipulation, the gems do not qualify as beings that do not possesses a soul, they are humans by all means except by being inorganic and possessing powers.

So highly advanced AI have souls?

Hashtag: robotsoulsmatter

 

[FateAlbane]

It's not based on our views on it btw, it's just what the Soul Manip page reads the recquirements as. \/ Hence why I mentioned either this page gets updated later down the road or the standard here is to assume they do have souls in lack of a statement saying otherwise.

"Under normal circumstances, most characters are assumed to have a soul by default unless the original medium specifies otherwise. Those who do not possess are soul are usually considered to be immune to most applications of Soul Manipulation."

 

[Antoniofer]

Can AIs reproduce sexually (artificial insemination do not counts)? Also, I'm exceptical about scientist creating dreams on robots, besides ridiculous, it could be more like an emulation.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

@Cinnabar Yes, I agree.

But by the current definition of the Soul Manip page, without a statement that you have no soul, you should be considered to have one.

So by that current definition, the gems should have a soul.

I would be supporting a change then, I don't think you should need an explicit statement that you have a don't soul for you to not have one.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Cinnabar Like I said, I'm neutral.

I'm just mentioning that the *current standard* to meet the recquirements for soulessness is that. It's either go by it or change it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Can AI's reproduce sexually (artificial insemination do not counts)?

Seeing as Gems cant unless thay specifically shapeshift in such a way that allows them to...

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Personally I've always thought that a sufficiently advanced AI could possess a soul. Our bodies are basically just meat robots; it's upstairs that count.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Seeing as Gems cant unless thay specifically shapeshift in such a way that allows them to...

Yes, they can shapeshift reproductive organs like a womb. Also, should we update Amethyst's page a bit? One of her weaknesses is: Shapeshifting can only be maintained for a limited amount of time,

But this probably isn't true anymore. In Ruby Rider, she shapeshifted as a horse for days without tiring.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Cin They can but its not natural for them and as we know it Rose is the only Gem to ever do so.

Yes to the update

 

[CinnabarManx421]

@Cin They can but its not natural for them and as we know it Rose is the only Gem to ever do so.

Yes to the update

Yeah, but Amethyst has also transformed into a helicopter and a boombox, which are far more complicated to do.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Amethyst is not the best basis for how Gems use their shapeshifting my guy

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Eh? She's literally the one who does it the most and is the weakest of them all, wouldn't they upscale from that?

Also I'm getting harassed by a troll on several wikis rn so I might be slow to reply.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes but she does it exponentially more and in far more extreme and varied ways than any other Gem in the series