Garou vs Cinder (OPM vs RWBY)

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Hero Hunter Garou (1.22 Megatons) vs Fall Maiden Cinder (3.2866 Megatons, 1/5 of this)

Speed equalized, Location: Skyloft

Cinder: 8 (azontr, RandomGuy2345, Spinoirr, DaReaperMan, WeeklyBattles, Veloxt1r0kore, Maitreya, Rikimarox2)

Garou:

Inconclusive:

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh god why

 

[Maitreya12]

So Cinder does hold the AP and speed advantage however Garou is vastly more skilled and can still evolve even as a human.

If the fight prolongs to any point and Garou becomes “red Garou” then I think he would win, but if it’s just regular human Garou Cinder might edge out.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Only Hero Hunter

Oh this actually shouldnt be too bad. Since speed is unequalized, am I right in reading that Garou is Mach 155?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Oh this actually shouldnt be too bad. Since speed is unequalized, am I right in reading that Garou is Mach 155?

Righto

 

[WeeklyBattles]

however Garou is vastly more skilled

Thats extremely debatable, RWBY characters are stupidly skilled especially at this point in the series

 

[Maitreya12]

Oh wait Garou holds the speed advantage actually. Massively so in fact. So with that and since the AP gap isn’t really too substantial plus Garou is far more skilled he should actually win.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh wait Garou holds the speed advantage actually. Massively so in fact. So with that and since the AP gap isn’t really too substantial plus Garou is far more skilled he should actually win.

Eh? Garou is Mach 155 whereas Cinder scales significantly abov Mach 350

And Garou is definitely not more skilled here. I can grab the feat list for RWBY if you'd like

 

[Maitreya12]

Thats extremely debatable, RWBY characters are stupidly skilled especially at this point in the series

More skilled than hero hunter Garou who can master moves upon seeing them once, can predict every movement of a person before engaging into combat with them, and has a mastery of multiple martial arts which he uses to do extremely precise moves?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

More skilled than hero hunter Garou who can master moves upon seeing them once, can predict every movement of a person before engaging into combat with them, and has a mastery of multiple martial arts which he uses to do extremely precise moves?

Yes actually, there are characters in RWBY who can do exactly that and are considered low-tier in skill

 

[Maitreya12]

Eh? Garou is Mach 155 whereas Cinder scales significantly abov Mach 350

And Garou is definitely not more skilled here. I can grab the feat list for RWBY if you'd like

Actually Garou is scaling above Tanktop Master in speed who can react and keep up with Psykos’ jets which are massively faster than Cinder’s speed.

A feat list of pure skill for Cinder fall. Sure.

 

[Maitreya12]

At least that’s what I found when I checked the pages. So yeah Garou’s holding a pretty big speed advantage here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Actually Garou is scaling above Tanktop Master in speed who can react and keep up with Psykos’ jets which are massively faster than Cinder’s speed.

According to his profile he is only Mach 155 scaling to Genos, him being MHS+ scaling to Psykos doesnt really track when he was caught off guard by Sage Centipede who is Mach 732

A feat list of pure skill for Cinder fall. Sure.

Gimme just a sec, gonna make it its own post, theres a lot lol

 

[Maitreya12]

According to his profile he is only Mach 155 scaling to Genos, him being MHS+ scaling to Psykos doesnt really track when he was caught off guard by Sage Centipede who is Mach 732

According to his profile he’s faster than Tank Top Master who’s only speed rating is from Psykos’ jet which is Mach 5005. What you said about Sage Centipede Garou doesn’t make sense either since Garou was already above 4.33x the speed of light when he went up against Sage Centipede.

Gimme just a sec, gonna make it its own post, theres a lot lol

Yeah gotcha, take your time.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Yes actually, there are characters in RWBY who can do exactly that and are considered low-tier in skill

You mean Velvet, which is literally her Semblance? That is more Hax than Skill

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

According to his profile he’s faster than Tank Top Master who’s only speed rating is from Psykos’ jet which is Mach 5005. What you said about Sage Centipede Garou doesn’t make sense either since Garou was already above 4.33x the speed of light when he went up against Sage Centipede.

Garou's profile only lists him as Massively Hypersonic without a +

 

[WeeklyBattles]

According to his profile he’s faster than Tank Top Master who’s only speed rating is from Psykos’ jet which is Mach 5005. What you said about Sage Centipede Garou doesn’t make sense either since Garou was already above 4.33x the speed of light when he went up against Sage Centipede.

That seems kinda screwey then, because Garou's profile for his Hero Hunter key lists him as only MHS, and Sage Centipede is only listed as MHS+ with one of the justifications for his speed being that he caught Garou off guard

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You mean Velvet, which is literally her Semblance? That is more Hax than Skill

I dont think you understand what hax ar if you think the ability to copy and utilize different fighting styles is hax

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

To my knowledge the advantages are:

Cinder

• Immensely superior Range relative to Human Garou (Standard Melee Range vs Several kilometers lol)
• Unrestricted Flight
• Better versatility due to controlling all the elements and the weather
• Aura protects her from grievous damage initially
• Roughly 2x stronger initially
• This iteration of Garou lacks Heat Resistance? (Might be wrong on that one)

Garou

• Reactive Evolution
• Unparalleled H2H Combat Skill
• Analytical Predication
• Pressure Points
• Extraordinary willpower, pain tolerance, and stamina

 

[Maitreya12]

That seems kinda screwey then, because Garou's profile for his Hero Hunter key lists him as only MHS, and Sage Centipede is only listed as MHS+ with one of the justifications for his speed being that he caught Garou off guard

Yeah that is screwy cause when you click on Tank Top Master’s profile, which is what the justification for Garou’s speed is scaling to, his only rating is massively hypersonic+ with the justification being the Psykos Jet thing. So it’s actually kind of wonky not gonna lie.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Garou

• Reactive Evolution
• Unparalleled H2H Combat Skill
• Analytical Predication
• Pressure Points
• Extraordinary willpower, pain tolerance, and stamina

Garou being more skilled is debatable, especially for this key

Pressure points also likely wouldnt be too effective because Aura

 

[Maitreya12]

Garou's profile only lists him as Massively Hypersonic without a +

Yeah see my post above on why it’s kind of wonky.

Im gonna be honest, the way I see it. If Garou has the speed advantage by that margin, he handily wins.

If Cinder has the speed advantage by her margin, then I’d say she wins.

if you equalize speed then I actually don’t know. That’s a pretty tough freaking battle not gonna lie.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yeah that is screwy cause when you click on Tank Top Master’s profile, which is what the justification for Garou’s speed is scaling to, his only rating is massively hypersonic+ with the justification being the Psykos Jet thing. So it’s actually kind of wonky not gonna lie.

Might be worth mentioning on the OPM discussion thread, shouldnt be to hard of a fix

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I dont think you understand what hax ar if you think the ability to copy and utilize different fighting styles is hax

not when her ability is a metaphysical power.

Also, how does this skill scale work in Cinder?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Guess I'll equalize speed since OPM ratings need fixing oof

 

[Maitreya12]

Might be worth mentioning on the OPM discussion thread, shouldnt be to hard of a fix

But what would it be fixed to? Because depending on it, it kind of massively changes the outcome of the fight.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But what would it be fixed to? Because depending on it, it kind of massively changes the outcome of the fight.

MHS+ probably but looking through some more OPM profils a lot of them are MHS scaling to Garou so this would chang quite a few pages...

Also Maverick equalized speed so no issue there

 

[WeeklyBattles]

not when her ability is a metaphysical power.

The metaphysical power of 'velvet copies fighting styles she sees'

By this logic, Garou and Taskmaster's copying abilities are hax too

 

[LordGinSama]

Garou's copying isn't given to him by any power in particular. Same thing goes for Tasky who does it via sheer IQ.

Velvet needs to activate her Semblance for her's, aka a supernatural ability that isn't stemmed to her IQ or natural skill.

 

[Maitreya12]

Yeah there’s a difference between being able to copy something from sheer skill and having an ability that specifically allows you to copy another person.

 

[Imouto-tan]

I would think that this is a high diff match for both parties as while Cinder does have the edge with her flight, range, the versatility of her power set, and AP, Garou is clearly the better fighter of the two and holds the speed advantage. My gut is telling me to vote for Garou because he's just too High Combat IQ for Cinder to handle even with what's at her disposal.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sorry, took a second to find a thread this was posted in. Should really put this in a blog at some point...

At the bottom of the skill chain is aura users as a whole. While every living being in RWBY technically has Aura, actually being able to utilize it for things such as defense, regen, and senses requires years of training and a high enough degree of martial skill (and yes you actually need martial skill for it) that only a small percentage of the population of the entire planet ever become skilled enough to utilize their aura. Of that small percentage, an even smaller percentage ever become skilled enough to manifest/control a Semblance (yes semblances are also skill-based). To reach this small percentage comes to the second half of the bottom of the chain: Almost every character worth their salt in RWBY has spent their entire life training in combat and can fight hordes of Grimm with little issue (Almost because Jaune exists). The entirety of the main cast of RWBY was initially enrolled at Beacon Academy, one of the most prestigious combat schools in the world, with almost everyone who was accepted there having been trained for almost their entire life to fight monsters, and each one that was not professionally trained requiring a skill display overseen by Ozpin, who has the composite skill of several thousand professional huntsmen that he accumulated over his immortal lifetime.

Thats the baseline for skill in the verse.

Before the Beacon Arc Ruby had been personally trained by her uncle Qrow in combat and as a result she was noted as always excelling above her peers in combat training. At the start of the series Ruby was at a level of skill that even though she was two years away from being eligible to join Beacon she was admitted due her combat prowess impressing Ozpin, with him noting that she was already a master at wielding one of the most dangerous weapons ever designed. In combat Ruby is capable of taking on entire hordes of Grimm on her own and walking away without a scratch and utilizing the different functionalities of the Crescent Rose, such as the massive recoil from the rifle aspect of the weapon and the weapon's transformative capabilities, in tandem with each other and her Semblance in order to maintain an edge over her opponent. Basically every named character is around this level of skill in the early seasons. Now for Velvet. Velvet is able to perfectly and instantly mimic the exact moves that she observes other people use in combat as well as utilize multiple different fighting styles simultaneously, both armed and unarmed. Thanks to Anesidora, Velvet is also able to copy fighting styles that utilize weapons, and she is able to wield the weapons that she copies just as effectively as their original user. To date that we know of, Velvet is able to simultaneously utilize the fighting styles and weapons of Ruby Rose, Yang Xiao Long, Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna, Nora Valkyrie, Sun Wukong, Penny Polendina, Coco Adel, Peter Port, Reese Chloris, Fox Alistar, Vega Bleu, Yatsuhashi Daichi, Russel Thrush, Roy Stallion, Neptune Vasilias, Brawnz Ni, Bartholomew Oobleck, Flynt Coal, Edward Caspian, and Scarlet David. Of note, every person listed spent their entire lives training in combat and several of them are professional huntsmen with decades of combat experience.

Moving up the chain we have Nebula Violette, who not only outmatched Velvet in a 1v1 test of martial arts skill, but was directly stated to be more skilled than Velvet in combat despite Velvet mixing numerous fighting styles to try to throw her off in their fight.

Above her is Pyrrha Nikos, the skill god of the Beacon Arc. Pyrrha is one of the most skilled students at Beacon Academy, having won every combat tournament she has entered since she was a pre-teen due to both her mastery of combat and mastery of her semblance, being able to apply it in combat completely undetected and having done so in almost every fight she's been in for over a decade, doing so with such skill and precision that she has lead many to believe she is untouchable and invincible as no one has been able to even land a blow on her in her combat career. Even without her semblance she has shown the ability to quickly and easily adapt to her combat situation and analyze her opponents while fighting and changing tactics to suit the situation she is in. She has shown extreme accuracy, being able to hit moving targets from hundreds of meters away and strike vital weak points on an opponent mid-combat both with and without the aid of her semblance. She is also highly skilled at using her weapon's multiple forms in combat, being able to switch between forms several times in rapid succession to both deliver rapid attacks and counter others simultaneously.

Then theres Mercury. Mercury is a veritable master of close combat, having spent his entire life training in pure martial combat to make up for his Semblance being stolen by his father. He is shown to be a very acrobatic and agile fighter who relies upon quickly overpowering his opponent with complex kicks that imply a near-mastery of martial arts that resemble Tae-Kwon-Do. He is also capable of a break-dancing style, similar to Capoeira, and makes use of Muay Thai as well. Despite his focus on kicks, Mercury also uses his hands to grapple, block or redirect enemy attacks. His experience and skill are aggressive and effective enough to drive even fighters of a high caliber, like Pyrrha, into a defensive position, with Word of God confirming that Mercury would defeat her if he fought her seriously. Due to his fighting style, Mercury relies on his swift and quick reflexes to counter and block his opponent's attacks as first demonstrated during his fight with Yang Xiao Long, altering the course of her punches and using his footwork to raise her fists and kick underneath or around her attacks. Despite the presumed awkwardness of his weapon's ranged capabilities he is a skilled marksman, able to shoot a phone out of a person's hand from a good distance away, and is proficient at using the many different forms of projectiles at his disposal to keep his opponents off balance. Mercury is also known to be observant, tactical, and analytical, able to notice and deduce the capabilities and limits of Pyrrha's Polarity Semblance after she uses it once during their brief fight, despite Pyrrha using it extremely subtly in combat and having spent her entire life honing her ability to hide her Semblance and its mechanics from her opponents and the general public.

Then there's the Ace Ops. For reference, Atlas Academy's vetting process is canonically more strict than Beacon's due to it being a military school on top of a Huntsman academy, so they only accept the best of the best. All of the members of the Ace Ops graduated top of their class from Atlas Academy, meaning that they are quite literally the best of the best of the best, Elm in particular being canonically the most skilled person out of all the ace ops, with Clover being the only member ranked above her in combat solely due to his semblance rather than outright skill. Included in this group is also Winter, who spent her entire military career training to be the replacement host of the Winter Maiden and even without the Maiden Powers is considered the most skilled soldier in the Atlas Military.

At this point in the series, Team RWBY has fought and outmatched the Ace Ops in combat.

Then theres Penny. Due to being created with the purpose of being an artificial combatant designed by the Atlas Military, Penny is an overwhelmingly skilled fighter. Duing the Vytal Festival she effectively made it to the semifinals on her own despite the competitors of the Vytal Festival being some of the most skilled fighters that the four major combat schools on Remnant had to offer, with her other teammates being noncombatants who were only there as stand-ins so she would have a team by the rules of the tournament. She is skilled enough to match Pyrrha Nikos in combat and even put her on the defensive and disarm her. After being reconstructed and upgraded, Penny's skill capacity was further increased to the point that she was able to fight and outmatch four of the five Ace Ops simultaneously, with the Ace Ops being forced to fall back at the end of their fight. In addition, despite having the Maiden powers for the shortest time out of any character, Penny had a near instant proficency with them due to being an android, allowing her to learn how to use her powers more quickly than other Maidens and easily copying attacks she had seen from other Maidens like Cinder and Fria. Penny possesses a masterful level of skill in wielding her weapon of choice, Floating Array, a highly complex series of remotely controlled swords directed by Penny communicating with each blade directly in order to manipulate them. Despite Floating Array being an extremely complicated weapon, Penny is able to control it with such skill that she can manipulate each individual blade with just a thought or a wave of her hand, altering the configurations and formations of the blades at will to counteract incoming threats, easily utilizing it as a close, mid, and long range melee weapon and a directed energy weapon for overwhelming offensive purposes, as well as a shield and grappling cables to enhance her defense and mobility and thrusters to enhance her mobility and physical capabilities simultaneously. She can utilize multiple forms of Floating Array simultaneously, attacking with a mix of swords and lasers from multiple angles as a means of keeping an opponent constantly off balance, and can attack with enough precision as to cut a Bullhead in half with her lasers without harming any of the passengers. Penny's skill is such that even after losing her mechanical body she is able to control copies of Floating Array created using her Maiden powers in an identical manner without being able to directly interface with the swords.

Then there's Neo. Having been trained in the art of infiltration and assassination at Lady Browning’s Preparatory Academy For Girls, a covert school which trains some of the most elite female spies and assassins in the world, Neo is extraordinarily skilled in combat. Her fighting style is highly evasive, focusing on dodging, deflecting or maneuvering around her opponent's strikes until she has exhausted them, or until she is ready for a counterattack. She is very acrobatic and exceptionally skilled in hand-to-hand combat, relying on her agility to dodge and misdirect enemy movements and attacks, before retaliating with her own attacks resembling a mix of Bartitsu, Fencing, and Capoeira. Her skill is such that she casually defeated opponents such as Yang and Ruby early in the series and later on the entirety of Atlas Arc Team JNR and Oscar while toying with them the entire time, and by the end of the arc taking on both Ruby and Blake simultaneously and largely keeping them on the defensive. By word of God, Neo's skill is sufficient to defeat Mercury Black in a one on one fight.

Cinder in this key was not only able to evenly match Neo in a 1v1 fight without the use of her Maiden powers, but she beat Winter and Penny simultaneously while barely using her Maiden powers.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I would think that this is a high diff match for both parties as while Cinder does have the edge with her flight, range, the versatility of her power set, and AP, Garou is clearly the better fighter of the two and holds the speed advantage. My gut is telling me to vote for Garou because he's just too High Combat IQ for Cinder to handle even with what's at her disposal.

Refer to the post above. Garou does not hold a significant if any skill advantage in this fight

 

[Maitreya12]

Ok so looking over and thinking about the fight.

Cinder holds a pretty good range and elemental advantage over Garou with her magic and all. She also has really helpful durability with aura which Garou doesn’t have and will only accumulate damage while Cinder will just essentially absorb it (up until a certain point). However it’s important to note that this doesn’t apply to her Grimm arm. She’s also about 2x stronger than Garou is initially which will most certainly help her.

Garou holds a very big edge in close quarter combat as he is far more skilled than Cinder and would be able to use his martial arts to his full advantage against Cinder. He is also extremely durable and pain resistant so whatever attacks Cinder may land, Garou can very much shrug off. He is also able to deflect and rebound some of her long range projectiles as well. He also very much holds a stamina advantage since the man will just not stop fighting or cave, meanwhile if your aura is out in RWBY, you’re essentially out of the fight.

Honestly it seems like Cinder’s best bet is to attempt to stay at a distance and hit Garou from there as when she would try and get close, Garou would inevitably overwhelm her and damage her aura a bit. Her magic would also be able to help her around Garou’s analytical predictions of her moves for at least a time being. However this strategy may not be to her favor as it doesn’t seem likely she’ll be able to land many critical moves from such a far distance away and could inadvertently trigger Garou’s reactive evolution. Having him become increasingly more resistant to her heat based moves and repelling her other projectiles right back at her.

Honestly I’m either seeing this match as inconclusive but leaning slightly in the favor of Garou primarily thanks to his reactive evolution being able to help overcome the disadvantages he has.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cinder holds a pretty good range and elemental advantage over Garou with her magic and all. She also has really helpful durability with aura which Garou doesn’t have and will only accumulate damage while Cinder will just essentially absorb it (up until a certain point). However it’s important to note that this doesn’t apply to her Grimm arm. She’s also about 2x stronger than Garou is initially which will most certainly help her.

Of note, Cinder can also create barriers with her magic which isnt fueled by her Aura (ie. taking her aura down doesnt remove her ability to use magic), and she can regenerate damage to her Grimm arm and even fully regrow it in a few seconds if it gets cut off

Garou holds a very big edge in close quarter combat as he is far more skilled than Cinder and would be able to use his martial arts to his full advantage against Cinder.

Refer to the post above. He does not hold a significant if any skill advantage here. RWBY is insanely skilled for how much it gets dunked on as a verse.

He is also extremely durable and pain resistant so whatever attacks Cinder may land, Garou can very much shrug off.

Debatable, Cinder has a few attacks that ignore durability and her heat attacks would screw Garou over big time as he doesnt resist heat in this key

He is also able to deflect and rebound some of her long range projectiles as well.

Also debatable, specifically because Cinder has the ability to freely control her projectiles and their trajectory even if they are broken

He also very much holds a stamina advantage since the man will just not stop fighting or cave, meanwhile if your aura is out in RWBY, you’re essentially out of the fight.

While the stamina argument is fair, as of volume 5 Aura breaks are no longer an instant loss for the cast, and almost every character who has gotten their aura broken has shown th ability to continue fighting after their aura is broken

Honestly I’m either seeing this match as inconclusive but leaning slightly in the favor of Garou primarily thanks to his reactive evolution being able to help overcome the disadvantages he has.

Does he even have the capacity to do that in this key?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

This is actually one of the few Garou matchups I've seen that is actually interesting.

Give yourself a pat on the back, Mav.

 

[Maitreya12]

Refer to the post above. Garou does not hold a significant if any skill advantage in this fight

Ok so after going over this post, I find a lot of the things you mention either A) not applicable in skills for this fight, B) not applicable to Cinder herself or C) Do not measure up to the actual feats displayed by Garou for his skill.

For examples for each of what I’m referring to. Being skilled in her use of Aura isn’t really applicable to her being more skilled than Garou since aura is an in universe thing that can be taught and learned and practice just like Cinder was for many years. It’s like saying you’re skilled in haki from one piece or ki from dragon ball. It’s not really applicable to skill sets agaubsy

Velvet being able to copy others is in no way indicative of hers or Garou’s actual skill set being comparable since Velvet has a specific ability that allows this to happen for her while Garou is copying things via sheer skill alone which is far more impressive and of course masterful. This also doesn’t apply to Cinder since she doesn’t have Velvet’s skill set.

Garou has also been shown to be able to predict the exact movements characters would preform and hyper focus on them so he can use the most optimal method of attack. His analytical prediction is off the charts and far exceeds what’s shown in RWBY. There’s also his direct martial arts skills which can take your power and return it back two fold. Even when he’s unable to see, he can dodge ricochet shots from the dark with a leg wound and minimal movement. He’s always thinking about the best course of action to take at all times and is very cunning and strategic with his moves that just get further advanced with his reactive evolution.

There’s also a couple things that need to fixed or pointed out in your post about the skills of RWBY.

First Ace Ops were emotionally hung up during their fight with RWBY which I believe was even pointed out.

And second was that Cinder never beat Winter and Penny together. She stalemated Winter, there was no real victor in that fight, and the only reason she beat Penny so handily was because she just got turned into a human and lacked her previous robotic senses. Penny prior was able to beat Cinder just fine. And Penny’s not too terrifically skilled either even with Winter powers since she was clearly overwhelmed by having to fight multiple Ace Ops at once whereas Garou fighting multiple opponents is almost a regular to him.

So yeah, overall Garou holds the massive skill advantage.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The skill gap is relatively small between the two, though Pressure Points will definitely be something to look out for if you're Cinder. Garou's willpower, along with his pain tolerance and stamina will also make him a bitch to take down. RE is also annoying as **** (I deadass hate that ability).

On the flip side, even if you do make the claim Garou is the more skilled fighter, he'd still have to touch Cinder to do something to her, which is far easier said than done. Cinder's massive range advantage, along with her flight, versatility, and aura will not only make it hard for her to touch, but to take her down as well.

I think this match might end up being an Incon, though if a gun was pointed to my head, I'll probably bet slightly towards Cinder.

But of course, what do I know? I barely know shit about either verse.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Btw, don't debate me about who's more skilled between the two. I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The skill gap is relatively small between the two, though Pressure Points will definitely be something to look out for if you're Cinder. Garou's willpower, along with his pain tolerance and stamina will also make him a bitch to take down. RE is also annoying as **** (I deadass hate that ability).

Pressure Points likely wouldnt even work due to Cinder's Aura (Passive full body forcefield)